Next year, there is an increase of the coaching soft cap by $750,000, and 20% of the coach's salary is outside of the cap.

That might make it easier to move on the likes of Voss and Goodwin at the end of 2025.

5 hours ago, layzie said:

Someone told me the other day we're about 20,000 behind what we were this time last year, is that the case?

Major memberships dropoffs invariably happen when supporters lose faith the coaching group.

8 minutes ago, Cranky Franky said:

Major memberships dropoffs invariably happen when supporters lose faith in the coaching group the club.

Fixed that for you. Most supporters don't even get to that level, they just want to watch their team win and have a good time.

Goodwin's fate seems sealed at this point, it's just a matter of if we can afford to pay him out end of 2025 or have to wait for contract end of 2026.

Let's hope there's some good senior coaching options out there. We're not big or rich enough to poach a proven one, so we'll have to go for either a sacked one like Longmire, or an up and coming assistant coach we think will make a good senior coach. None of our senior players like Gawn, May, Viney, Petracca etc will be part of our next flag tilt, so hire someone who will be best suited to the kids we are building around now.

Two bottom 4-5 finishes in a row is a clear indication that Goodwin's time, and this current groups time, is done. Will be forever thankful to Goodwin and those players who delivered us a flag, but it's now time to look to the future.

I think Pies and Dogs are the blueprint on how change and success can occur without a traditional re-build.

Credit to Bevo, don't know how he kept his job through all the noise.

Pies have 10 players over 30. Success should not be given up on for anyone on our list.

We do however need to grow some balls and make some tough decisions with player movement both ways.

However we will need to change whoever is involved in recent mature player acquisitions.

Need a coach who is willing to try new things and get the best from every player on the list. Goodwin certainly isn't.

3 minutes ago, kurtneverdied said:

I think Pies and Dogs are the blueprint on how change and success can occur without a traditional re-build.

Credit to Bevo, don't know how he kept his job through all the noise.

Pies have 10 players over 30. Success should not be given up on for anyone on our list.

We do however need to grow some balls and make some tough decisions with player movement both ways.

However we will need to change whoever is involved in recent mature player acquisitions.

Need a coach who is willing to try new things and get the best from every player on the list. Goodwin certainly isn't.

Dogs have never been afraid to cut lose players once they no longer fit into the team, they have also drafted exceptionally well for a long time. Finding guys like Feijah with late picks is gold. But even losing guns like Smith and Dunkley hasn't hurt them. Also helps to get someone like Sam Darcy through F/S too.

15 hours ago, Howard_Grimes said:

Was this sarcasm? Did I miss a previous post?

No..Tracc was never going to leave, it was not possible, but he did put the Club on notice to get its act together.

What went on in ‘22-‘23 was totally unacceptable (off field) and had to be dealt with

7 hours ago, layzie said:

Someone told me the other day we're about 20,000 behind what we were this time last year, is that the case?

Yes, we are way down on what we had in ‘22

1 hour ago, kurtneverdied said:

I think Pies and Dogs are the blueprint on how change and success can occur without a traditional re-build.

Credit to Bevo, don't know how he kept his job through all the noise.

Pies have 10 players over 30. Success should not be given up on for anyone on our list.

We do however need to grow some balls and make some tough decisions with player movement both ways.

However we will need to change whoever is involved in recent mature player acquisitions.

Need a coach who is willing to try new things and get the best from every player on the list. Goodwin certainly isn't.

Absolutely. Chandler has to go - he is the kind of player that kids you into thinking he's valuable (and many dees supporters fall for that), but Collingwood would never pick up someone like Kade Chandler - he "tries" but doesn't "do" or "create" or "stay in the game"
Please god get rid of Chandler - the role he plays running is so important and was done incredibly well by Neal-Bullen, and we've just replaced him with Chandler ad-hoc, but we can do so much better - it's such a critical position to connect with fowards and stay in the game. Sparrow has done it much more effectively this year.

Hashtag - the Chandler delusion has to end. Sorry Chin fans, please ask yourself what you really value about him. Don't be fooled by his "trying" and "battling". Neal Bullen was a "battler" but he was a far more balanced, potent and contributing player. Please for the love of God Chin fans, have a hard look at yourselves before you murder this post with your fraternal Chin wagging

1 hour ago, nextskipclaz said:

Absolutely. Chandler has to go - he is the kind of player that kids you into thinking he's valuable (and many dees supporters fall for that), but Collingwood would never pick up someone like Kade Chandler - he "tries" but doesn't "do" or "create" or "stay in the game"
Please god get rid of Chandler - the role he plays running is so important and was done incredibly well by Neal-Bullen, and we've just replaced him with Chandler ad-hoc, but we can do so much better - it's such a critical position to connect with fowards and stay in the game. Sparrow has done it much more effectively this year.

Hashtag - the Chandler delusion has to end. Sorry Chin fans, please ask yourself what you really value about him. Don't be fooled by his "trying" and "battling". Neal Bullen was a "battler" but he was a far more balanced, potent and contributing player. Please for the love of God Chin fans, have a hard look at yourselves before you murder this post with your fraternal Chin wagging

Not entirely clear ... you're for or agin Chin ??

4 hours ago, beelzebub said:

Not entirely clear ... you're for or agin Chin ??

There are far worse performers in the 23 than Chin in 3025

Have some Respect please people

13 hours ago, nextskipclaz said:

Absolutely. Chandler has to go - he is the kind of player that kids you into thinking he's valuable (and many dees supporters fall for that), but Collingwood would never pick up someone like Kade Chandler - he "tries" but doesn't "do" or "create" or "stay in the game"
Please god get rid of Chandler - the role he plays running is so important and was done incredibly well by Neal-Bullen, and we've just replaced him with Chandler ad-hoc, but we can do so much better - it's such a critical position to connect with fowards and stay in the game. Sparrow has done it much more effectively this year.

Hashtag - the Chandler delusion has to end. Sorry Chin fans, please ask yourself what you really value about him. Don't be fooled by his "trying" and "battling". Neal Bullen was a "battler" but he was a far more balanced, potent and contributing player. Please for the love of God Chin fans, have a hard look at yourselves before you murder this post with your fraternal Chin wagging

You seem to be myopically focused on the wrong guy. chin has improved out of sight and still has plenty more upside. we have guys on our list on twice as much money as him for contribute less right now.

15 hours ago, nextskipclaz said:

Absolutely. Chandler has to go -

okay. so you want to get rid of him.

who do you bring in for him? who can you replace him with thats betteR?

There's a grass is always greener element to this conversation that makes me wary of saying I'm fully in the "goodbye Goodwin" camp.

Quite a few people now have talked about the Bulldogs as having done what we can't. And of Luke Beveridge being a really good option to replace Goodwin.

Unless I'm misreading the numbers, the Bulldogs have won fewer finals than us since 2016. Since their flag they've either missed finals or lost elimination finals.

I do understand one part of the admiration for the Dogs, though. My biggest criticism of the club at the moment is they seem to be in denial about the state of the list. From the outside it seems the Dogs have been under no such illusions. They've changed their list quite drastically over the last ten years - in some cases very bad injuries have forced their hand. But those changes haven't led to good results.

For a while I was optimistic about 2026. I didn't think we could race back to the top of the ladder, but I did think it could be a stabilising year, and maybe even a launching pad for a sustained tilt at finals with a refreshed list. My hopes have dimmed significantly, and that's the problem I see for Goodwin.

He'll almost certainly coach beyond this year and on the face of it, I think that's OK - it doesn't upset me (if we finished the season with six or seven wins, I'd probably change my mind). But with the list at his disposal, is there any chance of a strong showing next season? Would he maintain the line that he has absolute faith in "this group"? EVERYTHING would have to go right, including some miraculous resolution to the bomb-it-long midfield and the discovery of a solid 30-goal-game contest winner up forward.

The other option is that the club makes a big shift and concedes the list isn't right. It makes significant changes and internally lowers expectations. It might be too little too late, but it's probably the right thing to do. But is Goodwin the person to guide us through this rebuild?

Will be a really interesting end to the year, we seem to have found reasons to excuse 2022-2024 for varying reasons. But what’s the excuse this year?

It was the first time since 2021 that I believe our list actually improved. Our injury list is in fantastic shape. Yet we are on the way to a bottom 4 finish and losing the same way every time. Surely we can’t continue to support mediocrity.

4 minutes ago, Pipefitter said:

Will be a really interesting end to the year, we seem to have found reasons to excuse 2022-2024 for varying reasons. But what’s the excuse this year?

It was the first time since 2021 that I believe our list actually improved. Our injury list is in fantastic shape. Yet we are on the way to a bottom 4 finish and losing the same way every time. Surely we can’t continue to support mediocrity.

There’s no excuses this year which is why the entire football department needs to be looked at at years end. We’ve underperformed on the only important metric, winning games. I think Goodwin survives because he’s contracted and appears to have the necessary support. I can’t see a world where Richardson has a job. Tim Lamb needs to work some serious magic on this list whilst it’s still possible.

Edited June 25Jun 25 by Roost it far

I really hope we’re a little more aggressive at trades than we normally are. Partly to keep me entertained but also because we need 2-3 good kickers and we’ll likely need to use players to get them. We can’t go into next year with the same 23.

27 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

I really hope we’re a little more aggressive at trades than we normally are. Partly to keep me entertained but also because we need 2-3 good kickers and we’ll likely need to use players to get them. We can’t go into next year with the same 23.

I agree that our FD's ideal 23 has to change next year. But what kind of trade do you have in mind?

I think the problem is good kickers who are also reliable all-round footballers are much rarer than most people think.

Our club spoke very openly about how excited we were to get Lachie Hunter and Jack Billings to the club precisely because they were such good kicks or "had high footy IQ". To a lesser extent, I think decent disposal skills played a part in the Grundy and Schache acquisitions. Unless you take a "worth a throw at the stumps" attitude (I don't), none of these trades have worked out.

Good clubs know the value of good disposal and don't give up solid footballers with above average skills.

It's made all the more difficult by the fact that few players (no matter how disgruntled) would be considering our entreaties at the moment and thinking they're more likely to snatch a flag here than at an alternative destination.

I much prefer exploiting Jason Taylor's skills in the draft to giving up low draft picks for players who can kick but are well past their best or never quite AFL standard.

Im not only in the goodbye Goodwin camp, but I won't even be watching any more games whilst he remains as coach. Our gameplan is just too frustrating to watch, not to mention our wasteful forward 50 entries, and inaccurate goal kicking. I can find better ways to spend the weekend than watch this current side. Ive been a 40 year member, but won't be renewing next year as it stands.

24 minutes ago, VoiceOfReason said:

Im not only in the goodbye Goodwin camp, but I won't even be watching any more games whilst he remains as coach. Our gameplan is just too frustrating to watch, not to mention our wasteful forward 50 entries, and inaccurate goal kicking. I can find better ways to spend the weekend than watch this current side. Ive been a 40 year member, but won't be renewing next year as it stands.

So you watched us through the 80’s and 2000’s but you won’t watch us now?

21 hours ago, Lord Travis said:

Fixed that for you. Most supporters don't even get to that level, they just want to watch their team win and have a good time.

Goodwin's fate seems sealed at this point, it's just a matter of if we can afford to pay him out end of 2025 or have to wait for contract end of 2026.

Let's hope there's some good senior coaching options out there. We're not big or rich enough to poach a proven one, so we'll have to go for either a sacked one like Longmire, or an up and coming assistant coach we think will make a good senior coach. None of our senior players like Gawn, May, Viney, Petracca etc will be part of our next flag tilt, so hire someone who will be best suited to the kids we are building around now.

Two bottom 4-5 finishes in a row is a clear indication that Goodwin's time, and this current groups time, is done. Will be forever thankful to Goodwin and those players who delivered us a flag, but it's now time to look to the future.

Spot on LT. We have to acknowledge that there are a number of players that will not get us into a GF. As you say after 2 bottom six finishes in a row it screams NGE. We all know that old saying about continuing to do the same thing and expecting a different result. I think the coach has a contract for 2026 but it is time for a number of changes in both the playing group and the FD.

Goody has failed to imprint reliable repeatable structures and ball movement required to have us compete with best teams post 21. We're a team that relies on talent rather than structures to score. Goody's time is up.

4 hours ago, The Taciturn Demon said:

Unless I'm misreading the numbers, the Bulldogs have won fewer finals than us since 2016. Since their flag they've either missed finals or lost elimination finals

Dogs won 4 finals in 2016 and 3 finals in 2021 for a total of 7 under Beveridge.

We won 2 finals in 2018 and 3 finals in 2021 for a total of 5 under Goodwin.

16 minutes ago, demoniac said:

Goody has failed to imprint reliable repeatable structures and ball movement required to have us compete with best teams post 21. We're a team that relies on talent rather than structures to score. Goody's time is up.

Agree to an extent. I've read a lot recently about Man City's Guardiola style of play.

Soccer has changed a lot in terms of tactics and the idea of positions etc.

Basically control of play via continual movement of players positioned in diamond or triangles formations. Each player is designated an area to occupy but every position in interchangeable, so versatiliy is essential.

Attacking and defensive structures are completely different. Defensive is very structured but on attack it's "controlled chaos".

The idea with that is the opposition will always eventually work out your attack so you leave it up to players to be creative and produce attack that can't be planned for.

Guardiola is know to constantly tweak tactics to keep ahead of the opposition.

I believe the AFL are still quite far behind tactically and evolution is on its way towards more of a soccer philosophy.

We talk about forward structure etc. That's exactly what we don't want. Structure in attack= predictable.

Constantly changing personal in attack is also to key to exploiting matchups and distribution of a structured defence.

All this is way beyond anything Goody has shown.

I'd try and recruit a Pies assistant as their ball movement looks very much like Guardiola's.

8 hours ago, Smokey said:

You seem to be myopically focused on the wrong guy. chin has improved out of sight and still has plenty more upside. we have guys on our list on twice as much money as him for contribute less right now.

6 hours ago, biggestred said:

okay. so you want to get rid of him.

who do you bring in for him? who can you replace him with thats betteR?

it sounds ridiculous, but someone with an intent that is true and not flighty. an intent that is unquestionable, like Neal Bullen. We lost a good one. I don't know who to bring in during the trade but someone like that, honest, humble, quiet, effective (even like another Spargo) The temperament is what counts in my opinion, to bolster the stars in our team. Footy, is about mind and how players integrate into a shared vision. I always felt that Chandler's temperament meddled with what we had. It was sort of a 'it's not my fault' sort of mentality. Hard to detect, but definitely there with Chandler - i see that with a lot of carlton players too. They can turn it on but often their collective psychology lets them down. You couldn't question our collective psychology for a few years there. But I felt the turning point for bad habits came in when Chandler was given a spot. It's tricky to explain, but I definitely have a very clear and certain belief about it. Call me crazy

4 hours ago, Pipefitter said:

Will be a really interesting end to the year, we seem to have found reasons to excuse 2022-2024 for varying reasons. But what’s the excuse this year?

At the end of the day, there is none.

After last season, this was the one where people were going to 'see what this team is made of' and it turns out we're made of cream puff pastry.