The question I'm intrigued by..

Take our list..... then imagine any or all of the other coaches were to take the helm.

What would our team sheet look like... how would we play  ?? 

If you think there'd be no difference... well,you'd be kidding yourselves. 

That's a reality.

Now you have mentally travelled down that road...  what do we think ? 🤔 

7 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

The question I'm intrigued by..

Take our list..... then imagine any or all of the other coaches were to take the helm.

What would our team sheet look like... how would we play  ?? 

If you think there'd be no difference... well,you'd be kidding yourselves. 

That's a reality.

Now you have mentally travelled down that road...  what do we think ? 🤔 

I think we’d be playing the same 21 with potentially/maybe a couple of difference’s. Once May, Pickett and McVee are back I doubt they’d be any, maybe 1 tops. 

12 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

I think we’d be playing the same 21 with potentially/maybe a couple of difference’s. Once May, Pickett and McVee are back I doubt they’d be any, maybe 1 tops. 

Keep going......

You've not walked this road far enough ;)

48 minutes ago, Stiff Arm said:

Agreed.

We have too many average/poor kicks in our midfield. The long bombs are useless, especially when we have a bunch of prepubescent kpf's who understably struggle to take a contested mark

Max, Viney, Tracc, Clarry, Langdon, Sharp, Sparrow and Billings are all unreliable by foot

Hopefully the addition of Langford and Lindsay will improve this delivery, but it’s 2-3 years away before they hit their peak. We desperately need more elite kicks and decision makers 

IMO Max should not go i50, certainly not as a tall target. He's a terrible kick, can't hit the ocean with a beach ball. AJ or JVR should take ruck there

Bombing it in there wouldnt even be so bad if we had a structure and correct spacing, give guys a chance 1 on 1, but for whatever reason we always seem to have everyone gathered in the same [censored] 3 metres of space which makes it very easy for opposing backlines. Its absolute rubbish. 

12 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Keep going......

You've not walked this road far enough ;)

A new coach would need a couple of seasons to focus our recruiting first on getting a stock of tall forwards who can begin developing their bodies, and then on acquiring mobile, smart decision-makers and good kicks, ideally an inside mid with an attacking mindset capable of also playing forward, and then begin transforming our game plan into a more aggressive corridor approach which would expose us to high risk while players adapted, and possibly see us hit with some very bad results when the cogs jam and morale drops. Ultimately, this coache's challenge would be to sustain the unity of the players and hopefully get the new kids up to reliable AFL standard and the new style firmly embedded before the current group of veterans fades too much.

I shall call this mysterious new coach, Monis Wingood.

Hopefully the new tenure will buy him some time to bring about the transformation without having cabal's of restless fans angling for his head.

37 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

The question I'm intrigued by..

Take our list..... then imagine any or all of the other coaches were to take the helm.

What would our team sheet look like... how would we play  ?? 

If you think there'd be no difference... well,you'd be kidding yourselves. 

That's a reality.

Now you have mentally travelled down that road...  what do we think ? 🤔 

Other coaches would try to isolate Fritsch, Pickett and Trac deep inside 50  and make their direct opponents [censored] themselves. Carrying on from that, they wouldnt have such a heavy reliance on a tall forward structure every single week. Horses for courses. 

Only one of Oliver and Viney would be here so we can pump game time into Langford.

The midfield rotation would run much deeper than just three guys and some token CBA's to others each week. Lindsay and Windsor would be in there. 

Gawn wouldn't be run into the turf every game. Rested on the bench.

10 hours ago, Little Goffy said:

A new coach would need a couple of seasons to focus our recruiting first on getting a stock of tall forwards who can begin developing their bodies, and then on acquiring mobile, smart decision-makers and good kicks, ideally an inside mid with an attacking mindset capable of also playing forward, and then begin transforming our game plan into a more aggressive corridor approach which would expose us to high risk while players adapted, and possibly see us hit with some very bad results when the cogs jam and morale drops. Ultimately, this coache's challenge would be to sustain the unity of the players and hopefully get the new kids up to reliable AFL standard and the new style firmly embedded before the current group of veterans fades too much.

I shall call this mysterious new coach, Monis Wingood.

Hopefully the new tenure will buy him some time to bring about the transformation without having cabal's of restless fans angling for his head.

Well played LG

Problem is.... he's  had time allowed to do this already.....and where are we ?  Well where we ARE is still having to do all that because good ol Monis is really causing us a Minus  ;)

Edited Wednesday at 21:254 days by beelzebub

9 hours ago, BringBackTheDemon said:

Other coaches would try to isolate Fritsch, Pickett and Trac deep inside 50  and make their direct opponents [censored] themselves. Carrying on from that, they wouldnt have such a heavy reliance on a tall forward structure every single week. Horses for courses. 

Only one of Oliver and Viney would be here so we can pump game time into Langford.

The midfield rotation would run much deeper than just three guys and some token CBA's to others each week. Lindsay and Windsor would be in there. 

Gawn wouldn't be run into the turf every game. Rested on the bench.

You know I really miss the 🤔 emoji .

The whole point of 🤔for mine was to express that the post was thoughtful and/or thought provoking  .

As is yours ... cheers

10 hours ago, Little Goffy said:

A new coach would need a couple of seasons to focus our recruiting first on getting a stock of tall forwards who can begin developing their bodies, and then on acquiring mobile, smart decision-makers and good kicks, ideally an inside mid with an attacking mindset capable of also playing forward, and then begin transforming our game plan into a more aggressive corridor approach which would expose us to high risk while players adapted, and possibly see us hit with some very bad results when the cogs jam and morale drops. Ultimately, this coache's challenge would be to sustain the unity of the players and hopefully get the new kids up to reliable AFL standard and the new style firmly embedded before the current group of veterans fades too much.

I shall call this mysterious new coach, Monis Wingood.

Hopefully the new tenure will buy him some time to bring about the transformation without having cabal's of restless fans angling for his head.

A couple of seasons? You have essentially described a rebuild. Minimum 5 years.

JVR, Jeffo and Turner are still young and maturing. Won’t peak for another 2-3 years. They still have more development required in them. They won’t be stars but will be serviceable. 

If we only get one flag from this era it will be seen as a fail

Yes he broke through for our first flag win (and will always be lauded for that) but like Kevin Sheedy in 2000, it is universally acknowledged that the Bombers wasted a stand out team.

Just now, jnrmac said:

If we only get one flag from this era it will be seen as a fail

Yes he broke through for our first flag win (and will always be lauded for that) but like Kevin Sheedy in 2000, it is universally acknowledged that the Bombers wasted a stand out team.

Speak for yourself. 

The competition has never been more even. Comparisons to Essendon from 2000 are misguided. 

The bar has never been, nor should be, multiple flags. 

On 25/03/2025 at 10:38, ElDiablo14 said:

Crisis can be opportunities.

Only if you are looking for them to change up tactics

If you are trying to replace like for like ....

Just now, titan_uranus said:

Speak for yourself. 

The competition has never been more even. Comparisons to Essendon from 2000 are misguided. 

The bar has never been, nor should be, multiple flags. 

1. I do

2. No they're not

3. It should at least be multiple Grand Finals like our plan was set up to do. We haven't won a final in Melbourne since 2018...We in fact have lost every once since 2018. Knocked in straight sets two years running. 

Feel free to relive the glory of 2021. It was great. But we didn't get to see it live and we have flubbed every final since. 

BS about an even competition is just that.

22 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

1. I do

2. No they're not

3. It should at least be multiple Grand Finals like our plan was set up to do. We haven't won a final in Melbourne since 2018...We in fact have lost every once since 2018. Knocked in straight sets two years running. 

Feel free to relive the glory of 2021. It was great. But we didn't get to see it live and we have flubbed every final since. 

BS about an even competition is just that.

The fact is, we wasted our premiership window for multiple reasons:

- lack of game plan adjustment (too late Goodwin)

- lack of strengthening our list. Tell me just one smart and good FA recruitment from 2022 until now. 

- lack of self-criticism. The coach failed to recognise his tactical failures for far too long.

Anyway, now the window is truly shut but luckily we have some good young talent. Let's do a Hawks like rebuild.

35 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

Speak for yourself. 

The competition has never been more even. Comparisons to Essendon from 2000 are misguided. 

The bar has never been, nor should be, multiple flags. 

Beg to differ.

After 2000 there's been 3 dynasties. Lions, Hawks and Tigers. We should've been the next one.

2022 if not for the injuries and mismanagement of our fitness coming into finals, it probably was a GF appearance for sure and who knows.

14 minutes ago, ElDiablo14 said:

Beg to differ.

After 2000 there's been 3 dynasties. Lions, Hawks and Tigers. We should've been the next one.

2022 if not for the injuries and mismanagement of our fitness coming into finals, it probably was a GF appearance for sure and who knows.

Um the Cats have done ok this century. Certainly a much better team then the Tigers

6 minutes ago, DubDee said:

Um the Cats have done ok this century. Certainly a much better team then the Tigers

Yes, they have. Just didn't have a dynasty.

But for sure they have been consistent, which we should've been between 2017 - 2024. Instead we missed finals in 2017, 2019, 2020 and 2024.

54 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

1. I do

2. No they're not

3. It should at least be multiple Grand Finals like our plan was set up to do. We haven't won a final in Melbourne since 2018...We in fact have lost every once since 2018. Knocked in straight sets two years running. 

Feel free to relive the glory of 2021. It was great. But we didn't get to see it live and we have flubbed every final since. 

BS about an even competition is just that.

I think when you are talking about multiple flags you have to accept our club is different.

To be clear,I think multiple flags was something we should have achieved. And we came exceptionally close in two seasons. In 23 but for losing one player, I think we would have done it.

I do believe that after 56 years of no chocolates than it creates negativity and havoc that is hard to break. I mean we even had stock in the club being cursed. As silly as it sounds there have been seasoned supporters and probably people inside the club that believed we couldn't win a flag because some coach was unceremoniously removed decades ago.

There is a saying that success is its own enemy in that it creates complacency. Or something like that. I do believe the club has been very complacent and not done the right amount of recruiting. Our current fwd line issues are not new. 

Anyway given that we broke one of the longest Afl droughts, we must applaud that. But we did for too long and  while we competed hard all year in 21 so as to win two chances, our fwd line troops or lack of thereof and game plan ( complacency) let us down in those two critical games. 

2023 SAW US AS CLOSE TO ANOTHER FLAG AS POSSIBLE.

I mean we lost to those maggots by less than a goal not just because of Gus being knocked out but not having a suitable fwd to replace an aging Milkshake. 

COMPLACENCY.

And then a few points to the Blues when we had a over  dozen more scoring shots. How long was/ has inaccuracy been an issue?

COMPLACENCY.

So while we did have success, on balance we also failed probably more. ( How's that for a balanced answer).

I mean club has been woeful in its recruitment of fwds. Even now we are still waiting for that same bloke in Melksham to return.

Are we going to be pushing.poor Jake the snake out in his wheelchair in 56 years time to bolster our forward line?

What is it going to take for the club to stop saying we have done all we can and looked everywhere? Have they?

When does the proverbial penny drop and we say that the club failed to fix an issue?

I believe that while great things were done, history could quite possibly say that the MFC let it's members down by not getting more than one flag from this list. And it's getting smaller each week.

Just one decent big fwd recruited 4 years ago would have probably seen us with as much as three premierships.

I think we all agree that the club has failed here.

So ultimately who is the one to blame or how many?

I don't know . I'm not trying to be a sa but I do genuinely think we have missed at least two golden opportunities and I want blood.

I'm as mad as hell and I'll probably still take it., 😉 It's Melbourne. The greatest football club in the world. Well one decent 111 kg and six foot six tall forward type away from.

And at least I don't follow Sydney. So there's that.

Edited Wednesday at 22:554 days by leave it to deever

4 minutes ago, leave it to deever said:

I think when you are talking about multiple flags you have to accept our club is different.

To be clear,I think multiple flags was something we should have achieved. And we came exceptionally close in two seasons. In 23 but for losing one player, I think we would have done it.

I do believe that after 56 years of no chocolates than it creates negativity and havoc that is hard to break. I mean we even had stock in the club being cursed. As silly as it sounds there have been seasoned supporters and probably people inside the club that believed we couldn't win a flag because some coach was unceremoniously removed decades ago.

There is a saying that success is its own enemy in that it creates complacency. Or something like that. I do believe the club has been very complacent and not done the right amount of recruiting. Our current fwd line issues are not new. 

Anyway given that we broke one of the longest Afl droughts, we must applaud that. But we did for too long and  while we competed hard all year in 21 so as to win two chances, our fwd line troops or lack of thereof and game plan ( complacency) let us down in those two critical games. 

2023 SAW US AS CLOSE TO ANOTHER FLAG AS POSSIBLE.

I mean we lost to those maggots by less than a goal not just because of Gus being knocked out but not having a suitable fwd to replace an aging Milkshake. 

COMPLACENCY.

And then a few points to the Blues when we had a over  dozen more scoring shots. How long was/ has inaccuracy been an issue?

COMPLACENCY.

So while we did have success, on balance we also failed probably more. ( How's that for a balanced answer).

I mean club has been woeful in its recruitment of fwds. Even now we are still waiting for that same bloke in Melksham to return.

Are we going to be pushing.poor Jake the snake out in his wheelchair in 56 years time to bolster our forward line?

What is it going to take for the club to stop saying we have done all we can and looked everywhere? Have they?

When does the proverbial penny drop and we say that the club failed to fix an issue?

I believe that while great things were done, history could quite possibly say that the MFC let it's members down by not getting more than one flag from this list. And it's getting smaller each week.

Just one decent big fwd recruited 4 years ago would have probably seen us with as much as three premierships.

I think we all agree that the club has failed here.

So ultimately who is the one to blame or how many?

I don't know . I'm not trying to be a sa but I do genuinely think we have missed at least two golden opportunities and I want blood.

I'm as mad as hell and I'll probably still take it., 😉 It's Melbourne. The greatest football club in the world. Well one decent 111 kg and six foot six tall forward type away from.

And at least I don't follow Sydney. So there's that.

Can you imagine if we brought McKay to the fold?

I was praying we got him in 2022 when he was out of contract and it was clear that Curnow was Carlton's priority.

since 2000 i'd say there's been two consistently dominant teams:

• swans: 2003 to current (missed finals just 3 times! been in 7 grand finals for 2 premierships)
• cats: 2007 to current (missing finals just twice! been in 6 grand finals for 4 premierships)

there's been two other teams who have had some incredible runs of success, albeit brisbane in two separate clutches:

• bears: 97-04 (missed finals once - when they finished last! - for 4 gf appearances, 3 premierships)
• bears: 2019 to current (6 straight finals, 2 gf appearances, 1 premiership)
• dingley: 2007-2018 (missed finals twice, 5 gf appearances, 4 premierships)

24 minutes ago, ElDiablo14 said:

Yes, they have. Just didn't have a dynasty.

But for sure they have been consistent, which we should've been between 2017 - 2024. Instead we missed finals in 2017, 2019, 2020 and 2024.

From 2007-2011 the cats made 5 prelims, 4 GFs, and won 3 flags in 5 years. What’s your definition of a dynasty?

6 minutes ago, Watson11 said:

From 2007-2011 the cats made 5 prelims, 4 GFs, and won 3 flags in 5 years. What’s your definition of a dynasty?

Yes I forgot that period. I think I got stuck with the Scott era (2011 onwards).

Then it is 4 dynasties post 2000.

Edited Wednesday at 23:274 days by ElDiablo14

16 hours ago, john delosa said:

Melbourne were never going to give up pick 5-6 for him and his people knew it!

 

That is fact and that’s from within PA footy department 

Just now, Pennant St Dee said:

That is fact and that’s from within PA footy department 

I think we would've given our future first, which means no Xavier Lindsay....

12 hours ago, Little Goffy said:

A new coach would need a couple of seasons to focus our recruiting first on getting a stock of tall forwards who can begin developing their bodies, and then on acquiring mobile, smart decision-makers and good kicks, ideally an inside mid with an attacking mindset capable of also playing forward, and then begin transforming our game plan into a more aggressive corridor approach which would expose us to high risk while players adapted, and possibly see us hit with some very bad results when the cogs jam and morale drops. Ultimately, this coache's challenge would be to sustain the unity of the players and hopefully get the new kids up to reliable AFL standard and the new style firmly embedded before the current group of veterans fades too much.

I shall call this mysterious new coach, Monis Wingood.

Hopefully the new tenure will buy him some time to bring about the transformation without having cabal's of restless fans angling for his head.

The recruitment process since 21/22 started bringing in better ball users and the addition of Windsor and Lindsay continues down the path with Mcvee.

Jefferson has taken a little longer but you get that with talls and JVR once not needing to ruck will be better served high up the ground.

 I believe we’ve started the process to the new game style which will have fluctuations but I want the FD to hold their nerve and not throw the baby out with the bath water