POSTGAME: Rd 11 vs St. Kilda

[layzie 33,991]

9 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

Free kicks:  21 to 10

Aside from my delight at that I thought the game was well umpired.  At the ground there didn't seem to be too many 'clangers' and rarely was there an uproar from the crowd over a free paid or not paid.

I actually felt a bit sorry for the Saints - that moment of weakness vanished when they put on three junk time goals ...

I thought the game was really well umpired too. Can't think of many howlers and they were spot on with paying and not paying marks. 

Surprised with the free kick count. 

[Dr. Gonzo 24,282]

56 minutes ago, old55 said:

I'm surprised no-one has highlighted TMac's precision kicking. It's been sensational this year. Low, fast and creative.

He has been outstanding, I was thinking yesterday he would be close to top 5 B&F to date.

[mpc 148]

Loved Salem's game yesterday.  I hope he gets to settle back into defense and instead keep using Nibbler, Kozzie (and maybe Rivers) in the midfield rotations instead.

[ElDiablo14 5,002]

4 minutes ago, layzie said:

I thought the game was really well umpired too. Can't think of many howlers and they were spot on with paying and not paying marks. 

Surprised with the free kick count. 

What was the call on the 50m that gave May kick at goal? I didn't see anything wrong from King.

[Lucifers Hero 40,351]

44 minutes ago, mpc said:

Loved Salem's game yesterday.  I hope he gets to settle back into defense and instead keep using Nibbler, Kozzie (and maybe Rivers) in the midfield rotations instead.

I agree with Salem comment.  He had no CBA's yesterday so not really part of the midfield rotations.

I saw his role a bit different to that of ANB and Kozzie.

Once the ball was in play I saw Salem's role as a key connection in our goal to goal ball movement and key distributor from the middle to a free player.  He has the smarts and finds time and space to pick a good option be it fwd, or sideways/back to switch to the other side.

Edited May 27 by Lucifers Hero

[Jaded No More 68,973]

4 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

I agree with Salem comment. 

I saw his role a bit different to that of ANB (defensive mid), Kozzie (attacking mid). 

Once the ball was in play I saw Salem's role as a key connection in our goal to goal ball movement and key distributor from the middle to a free player.  He has the smarts and always finds time to pick a good option be it fwd, or sideways.

If Salem can stay fit and in form for the rest of the year (and I know that's a big if given his body has been letting him down a lot since 2021), it will go a long way to making us contenders.

As you said earlier, he is replacing the hole left by Gus in the middle, but with better kicking skills.

It also reduces the load that Trac, Viney and Clarry need to carry.

[Willmoy1947 4,140]

42 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

Stand outs for me:

• Max's EIGHT frees.  Yes, 8  !!!  Marshall is a very good ruckman but clearly didn't know how to play Max right from the get go.
• Salem's game:  FOURTEEN Marks.  Yes, 14 !!!.  At the ground it looked like once the ball was in play he placed himself near the centre square and was pivotal in ball movement (32 possessions, 24 kicks/8 HB, @ 75% eff).  At times he went inside d50 to take the kick in.  His role was similar to Gus's in parts of 2020/2021:  in the middle of the ground and directed play.  He looks very fit.  Salem is the perfect person for that role.  Smart, aggressive and accurate.
• Much less kicking long from kick ins, to Max in this game. 
• No passengers yesterday.
• On the not so good:  Chandler (off balance), Rivers (50m line) and Langdon (v tight angle) took difficult 'hero' shots for goal and burnt multiple free players front and square within 20 mtrs of goal.  Except Langdon they had plenty of time to see the free players.  While intent was admirable it wasn't good teamwork. 

Not a pretty win but great to get it.

A beautiful day for watching a day game at the G.

Yes what was going on there with Max's frees? Seemed like they were 50/50 on old decisions never paid with some from obvious high tackles? What did you think of Clarry's game? 

[D Rev 630]

40 minutes ago, M_9 said:

My sentiments exactly. Three marks and seven disposals between them. Petty laid one tackle. 

Similarly poor results for Petty last week - five disposals and one mark.

As you rightly say, the cupboard is bare as far as a replacement for Petty, but surely BBB on one leg or Sestan, albeit 9cm shorter, would offer more of a contest.

I really like Sestan as a prospect, he seems a smart footballer and *looks* like he has the physical qualities needed. You'd think he can at least compete and run, which is more than McAdam and Petty. 

[Fromgotowoewodin 1,606]

28 minutes ago, JJJ said:

It probably tells us that JVR is not impactful enough to swim against the tide. As in his goal tally is a result of a dominant midfield, not him dominating an opponent.

He’s a kid in his 2nd year, he’ll be fine.

Tom Hawkins kicked 25 goals in 19 games in his first 2 years (1.32 gpg). Tom Lynch 27 goals in 30 (0.9 gpg).

JVR’s just played his 30th game and is averaging 1.37. Hawkins didn’t get there til year 3, Lynch year 4 (i think he was injured year 3).

[Dee*ceiving 1,690]

8 minutes ago, Willmoy1947 said:

Yes what was going on there with Max's frees? Seemed like they were 50/50 on old decisions never paid with some from obvious high tackles? What did you think of Clarry's game? 

Umpires umpiring Max properly vs Saints, a game we're likely to win anyway, to minimise derision when he get's no sympathy vs Freo and Pies 😏

[mauriesy 7,353]

23 minutes ago, ElDiablo14 said:

What was the call on the 50m that gave May kick at goal? I didn't see anything wrong from King.

He came in and stood about two metres closer than the mark. Probably trying to crib some space.

[Doug Reemer 1,197]

1 hour ago, Binmans PA said:

I'd almost prefer Bowser playing that quarterback role that Salem played yesterday because IMO Bowser is the better kick. Both in terms of penetration, flatness and accuracy. I do love Salem's grit when the ball is on the ground though.

Disagree.

I don’t think Bowza has the same penetration or depth to his kicking. Similar skill level, but Salem has that left foot class.

Bowza has the little chip kick game, but his little legs don’t match Salo’s

[Macca dee 4]

Was as this game and looked slow for first 2 quarters but last 2 were the ones to watch. After the first 5 to 10 mins 3rd quater we really came good with the way we moved the ball looked at lot faster and more players running in waves for the handball release. So over all good game but alot to improve. Plus was good to see may kick a goal and Petracca kick the long bomb. Also Tmac best game I seen him play in years

Edited May 27 by Macca dee
Tmac

[Lucifers Hero 40,351]

38 minutes ago, Willmoy1947 said:

Yes what was going on there with Max's frees? Seemed like they were 50/50 on old decisions never paid with some from obvious high tackles? What did you think of Clarry's game? 

I wasn't looking for replays of the frees so not sure why Max got so many.  They were mainly in ruck contests so I assume they were holding which is difficult to see from the stands with so many players around the ball.  And as you say some hiigh ones.  Marshall nor team mates complained at all so the frees were there. 

I thought Clarrie played an OK game.  Fierce as always. He improved as the game went on. 

He isn't a goal kicking mid so we need more value (meters gained) from his excellent ground level work.  imv 'meters gained' (181) is a key stat for non-goal kicking mids).   It was very low yesterday suggesting he isn't using his legs so disposals are very short distance albeit @ 91.7% eff.  He had three i50's placing him 10th yesterday.  So for a mid, his output ie after taking possession (distance (mtrs gained), goals, GA, i50's,) was on the  low side especially as only 8 of the 24 were contested.  So yeah, for mine it was an ok game.

He will get back to his best soon enough and if we keep winning in the meantime all is good.

Edited May 27 by Lucifers Hero

[In Harmes Way 7,823]

56 minutes ago, mpc said:

this patch also reminded me of '21 where we'd have a burst somewhere in the 2nd half (usually in the 3rd quarter) and win the game in a very short period

I actually thought the sections of the game where we continued to try and move the ball forward in chaos/scramble mode resembled 2021 as well. 

I guess we were playing a team at $3.40 to win odds, and it ended up showing, but our retention of the ball in congestion esp. using handball was very good (and we didn't really overdo it for once).

The game style we've been trying to perfect this year really shone out yesterday, I hope it gives confidence and holds up against the stronger defensive teams. Next week against Freo will be a good test.

[DeelightfulPlay 2,559]

1 hour ago, Binmans PA said:

Except I'm not the coach in the presser. ;)

Goody is classy. 

No doubt the Wegels were great last week, their tails up at home and we were terrible.

But COVID would at least partly explain our worse loss since the middle of 2020.

The idea that Chris Scott is secretly a die hard Dees fan, who posts very regularly and insightfully on Demonland, and has styled himself as the personal assistant to binman is too funny.  Thanks for the laugh!

[Jaded No More 68,973]

29 minutes ago, mauriesy said:

He came in and stood about two metres closer than the mark. Probably trying to crib some space.

While the free was technically there, I absolute hate how harshly we interpret that stand rule.

It is a huge penalty to pay, when most of the time, the slight movement makes absolutely zero difference to the game. 

[JJJ 1,313]

39 minutes ago, Fromgotowoewodin said:

He’s a kid in his 2nd year, he’ll be fine.

Tom Hawkins kicked 25 goals in 19 games in his first 2 years (1.32 gpg). Tom Lynch 27 goals in 30 (0.9 gpg).

JVR’s just played his 30th game and is averaging 1.37. Hawkins didn’t get there til year 3, Lynch year 4 (i think he was injured year 3).

I am aware of the above. My point is that he isn’t able to impact the game when we struggle. Typical for younger players, key forwards in particular.

[Jaded No More 68,973]

4 minutes ago, JJJ said:

I am aware of the above. My point is that he isn’t able to impact the game when we struggle. Typical for younger players, key forwards in particular.

Because when we struggle, it usually results in us not getting enough scores from clearances/stoppages, and resorting to moving the ball from half back, where we normally butcher the inside 50 entry.

Charlie Curnow would struggle with some of the god awful delivery we sometimes put on display. Yesterday when we could find some space, we were able to hit JVR on the lead. Granted St Kilda put up a fight reminiscent of a wet potato, but it certainly helps to have the likes of Salem and Bowser kicking inside 50. 

To his credit, JVR rarely wastes his opportunities. He is an exceptionally good set shot. 

[seventyfour 1,177]

Fritsch has been critcised for selfishness in the past, but with the way our forwards are playing and how Fritsch is kicking lately, I hope he remains selfish. His snaps are really special.

Pickett is in a similar boat.

[DeeSpencer 26,080]

1 hour ago, ElDiablo14 said:

What was the call on the 50m that gave May kick at goal? I didn't see anything wrong from King.

Not in the contest and stepped well over the mark and on an angle to cut off the kicking lane.

Was a hot one but they should pay them more often, it’s blatantly gaining an advantage 

[DeeSpencer 26,080]

24 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

While the free was technically there, I absolute hate how harshly we interpret that stand rule.

It is a huge penalty to pay, when most of the time, the slight movement makes absolutely zero difference to the game. 

It wasn’t a stand rule free kick, it was a cribbing the mark free kick.

It was paid against King for taking the position both over and diagonally across the mark when not in the contest.

If you’re in the contest the umpire will usually pull you back and set the mark. In an uncontested situation like this the onus is on the defensive player to not blatantly push their luck. 

[Adam The God 30,407]

17 hours ago, Ted Lasso said:

I wonder if Lever could play smaller and we could keep Tommlinson in? we looked really good in the air 

I reckon it depends on who the opposition put up in terms of aerial threats.

St Kilda don't have much to offer outside of King at the moment and some other youngsters who may or may not be good enough.

Freo aren't much better, neither are Collingwood in that department. It's definitely an interesting one. I worry about our ball movement and ground ball if we're playing Lever, May and Tomlinson. May's clear weakness is ground ball. He panics. I wouldn't say Lever is flawless is this area either.

So it's a bit of a tough one.

I suspect Howes may even come back in next week or after the bye. Maybe Tomlinson simply goes out then?

[Fromgotowoewodin 1,606]

20 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Not in the contest and stepped well over the mark and on an angle to cut off the kicking lane.

Was a hot one but they should pay them more often, it’s blatantly gaining an advantage 

Absolutely should be paid more often, teams do it deliberately to slow ball movement down and get around the stand rule 

[JJJ 1,313]

12 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

Because when we struggle, it usually results in us not getting enough scores from clearances/stoppages, and resorting to moving the ball from half back, where we normally butcher the inside 50 entry.

Charlie Curnow would struggle with some of the god awful delivery we sometimes put on display. Yesterday when we could find some space, we were able to hit JVR on the lead. Granted St Kilda put up a fight reminiscent of a wet potato, but it certainly helps to have the likes of Salem and Bowser kicking inside 50. 

To his credit, JVR rarely wastes his opportunities. He is an exceptionally good set shot. 

Curnow would dominate for us. Even this year when we are still learning a new style of ball movement. He is way more dynamic than JVR. McKay is a better comp from Carlton. 

JVR hasn’t learnt to use his body well in 1on1’s, rarely wins the ball on the deck and still has hard hands. It doesn’t mean he won’t eventually develop and become a game winning key forward. Just means it hasn’t happened yet.

I am happy for him to focus on drawing the footy, bringing the ball to ground when he can’t mark, giving Max a chopout, applying defensive pressure and kicking straight when he gets a chance. Anything above that is a bonus.