Umpiring (Demonland in meltdown)

[Willmoy1947 4,081]

7 hours ago, jnrmac said:

Having just watched the replay its astounding how many times:

• Carlton players get tackled and simply drop the ball (looks like an instruction)
• Cripps throws the ball without penalty
• Cripps and Walsh are allowed to turn more than 360 deg before disposing of the ball

The free against Max for hotting the ball OOB when it was Pittonet was disgraceful

As was:

Bowey being pinged for Deliberate  when he was pushed in his side as he was kicking

The JVR tackle when Hollands was rewarded for throwing his head into the turf

Curnow pushing May into the pack before taking a chest mark and goaling. It seems In the back is a forgotten rule

Chopping the arms is paid maybe 1 in 5 times

An appalling umpiring evening.

 

As for us.

Fritsch is my most frustrating player. As good as he is he has very little intensity and can barely lay a tackle at times If only he had some JV mongrel

Petty  is way out of sorts. zero disposals 8m into the 3rd qtr. Weitering had 12. WTF?

 

Our goal kicking hasn't improved (but Tracc has improved his). When Tracc was heavily tagged there was not help for him

The umpires hate Clarry. Gets pinged for HTB and throwing while Cripps is Marine Boy with a 10m forcefield around him

Pittonet never looks at the ball. He only looks at Max. That should be an instant free.

At ball ups around the ground the Umps even said stand 1m apart. The players ignore them. Why do they selectively apply rules?

We were cleaned up with their slickness around the centre bounce. 5 goals straight out of the middle. They kicked the first goal of each quarter. Why can't we come out breathing fire?

Cripps and Walsh had over 70 damaging disposals between them. You could have written that script. We could not combat them

We struggled to clear the ball from our d50 while they waltzed out of ours

Billings is a poor decision maker. he is this year's Jordon. Stop and prop.

Woey was really good when he came on.

Sparrow was good when he moved to the middle but did turn it over a bit

And for newman not to get suspended when Kozzie has been done twice for the same thing shows me how corrupt the AFL and MRO really are.

Best post i have read since the start of the season. It has summed up our year so far with consistency of the worst kind.

Everyone tries to deny what's going on here but it is rather plain on face looking stuff. We are actually prevented from starting well because what happens is the game flow is dictated to purposely to  prevent us from doing so.

Free kicks of one kind in the first qtr, like paying pushing in the back or holding the ball will change in the second qtr to throwing the ball and not holding marks, and so on and so on until the last qtr, where there will be no holding the ball at all and waiting until the opposition get out of congestion and kick to another of their players inside the fifty, or worse no review of anything until the painfully inevitable stage of a dubious free. I am at the stage in games with us that i wait for the free to them in the last minute or the rule of a free against us.

By the way it is not only US this weekend. GWS in particular were given a raw deal in the last qtr by umps, and we know who they played.So too were Adelaide tonight and St Kilda.

 

[Clintosaurus 7,838]

It is sports entertainment these days and the AFL don't answer to anyone, not even the clubs. The media will pick up something, mainly for clicks, but drop it just as quickly. The Pies won a flag based on turning the last 5 minutes of close games into a series of scrums, knowing the umpires were reluctant (or refused) to pay HTB against.

HQ know how much they can influence without heading into being accused of match fixing territory.

Interestingly Leigh Matthews has called for the Rules Committee to exist again. Unlikely given anything that gives a scintilla of control to anywhere outside of HQ (Australian Football Council, Rules Committee etc) have been usurped by HQ. It is all about control and they have a tight grip on it.

FoxFooty tweeted about the 'race to 17' being on. Amazingly all three of these teams are either doing well in free kick differential or are situationally advantaged by umpiring decisions (or non-decisions).

Edited May 12 by Clintosaurus

[jnrmac 20,055]

Have been thinking about the horrendous state of umpiring Here are my thoughts. 

1. It seems to me one of the most contentious issue is players being given the opportunity to dispose of the ball. The 'prior opportunity rule'.

Most seem to agree that we want to reward the player who gets the ball. But when tackled, they should be pinged if they:

Do not dispose of it correctly AND IMMEDIATELY by hand or foot (ie drop it, attempt to kick or HB but miss)

Players dropping the ball, spinning 360deg looking for a HB or going to ground holding the ball maybe should be penalised. The only exception I would make is if both arms were held in the tackle.

This if adjudicated correctly would see players immediately try to dispose of the ball resulting in either: play on, a free or a ball up.

There would be less room for interpretation

2. Next I would look at push in the back. Enforce the rule FFS. Players now do it with impunity. The only exception should be players trying to take a high mark within reason.

The Deliberate OOB is a joke. Bowey was pinged for this despite being shoved sideways as he was pushed.

3. Throwing is a blight on the game. I was brought up with the rule interpreted as hitting the ball with a closed fist from a stationary hand. What we have now is an abomination and it needs to be stopped

4. Positioning of the umpires does my head in. Players are aware of where the umps stand and deliberately turn or throw the ball when near the boundary. The crowd can see what happens but the blind umps cant. As for Goal umpires wTF? why do they stand side on rather than behind the ball when it is going through the sticks?

5. Scragging. Just get rid of it. If you touch a player when the ball is not within 5m you cop a free. It will stop in a nano second. 

6. The rules around Ruck contests are unfathomable to everyone. No shepherding, scragging, holding or bumping allowed. Just a clean run and jump. Fixed

There are no other games I can think of where the Umps must run a half marathon every game AND perform a skill.  Get rid of the bounce, keep the umps in Zones and allow them to move out of the central corridor. Have one stand behind the kicker when shooting for goal.

 

Rant over

[monoccular 17,413]

Does anyone have access to clips of

1/ Pitonet or Max boundary hit out on the full

2/ May touched goal 

3/ JVR “dangerous tackle”

Thanks

[daisycutter 29,604]

47 minutes ago, monoccular said:

Does anyone have access to clips of

1/ Pitonet or Max boundary hit out on the full

2/ May touched goal 

3/ JVR “dangerous tackle”

Thanks

jvr one

[Clintosaurus 7,838]

54 minutes ago, monoccular said:

Does anyone have access to clips of

1/ Pitonet or Max boundary hit out on the full

2/ May touched goal 

3/ JVR “dangerous tackle”

Thanks

Maysie

https://7news.com.au/sport/afl/steven-may-blows-up-at-controversial-score-review-call-during-melbournes-clash-with-carlton-c-14610051

Edited May 13 by Clintosaurus

[58er 6,393]

4 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

jvr one

Why don’t you watch the game and sort out the times?  
It’s on AFL website. 

[BigFez 1,440]

Just now, Clintosaurus said:

JVR

 

I think this is genuinely the worst umpiring decision I've ever seen in my life.  He was right there too.

[Clintosaurus 7,838]

3 minutes ago, BigFez said:

I think this is genuinely the worst umpiring decision I've ever seen in my life.  He was right there too.

They guess on so many. Most of the high contact frees are chest high tackles paid as high because the tackled player throws their head back.

[58er 6,393]

1 hour ago, Clintosaurus said:

It is sports entertainment these days and the AFL don't answer to anyone, not even the clubs. The media will pick up something, mainly for clicks, but drop it just as quickly. The Pies won a flag based on turning the last 5 minutes of close games into a series of scrums, knowing the umpires were reluctant (or refused) to pay HTB against.

HQ know how much they can influence without heading into being accused of match fixing territory.

Interestingly Leigh Matthews has called for the Rules Committee to exist again. Unlikely given anything that gives a scintilla of control to anywhere outside of HQ (Australian Football Council, Rules Committee etc) have been usurped by HQ. It is all about control and they have a tight grip on it.

FoxFooty tweeted about the 'race to 17' being on. Amazingly all three of these teams are either doing well in free kick differential or are situationally advantaged by umpiring decisions (or non-decisions).

What’s the race to 17 ? Have not heard of it! 

[Clintosaurus 7,838]

2 minutes ago, 58er said:

What’s the race to 17 ? Have not heard of it! 

Essendon, Carlton, Collingwood. [censored] clubs all sadly on 16 flags.

[Little Goffy 14,457]

13 hours ago, FireInTheBennelly said:

How lucky is this bloke, he has mother's day on top of umpire appreciation round. If you know what I mean.

 

 

I genuinely have no idea what you mean. What do you mean? I think the joke has gone straight over my head.

[Little Goffy 14,457]

Meanwhile, the spoonful of sugar of Maynard in distress, while also clear evidence that Carlton have been training for 'dangerous tackle' dives.

 

[Little Goffy 14,457]

Oh my... now that's three games in a row with highly visible dives by Carlton players.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/match-review-shock-as-cats-star-sanctioned-over-act-great-claimed-was-playing-for-a-free-kick/news-story/4019264312794c2bd1da2d7a62460ab0

 

Diving is a policy at Carlton.

[MT64 1,144]

13 hours ago, FireInTheBennelly said:

How lucky is this bloke, he has mother's day on top of umpire appreciation round. If you know what I mean.

 

In the main his decisions against us seem at times vindictive.  Neighbour is a Woods man and has the same opinion.

[daisycutter 29,604]

22 minutes ago, Little Goffy said:

Oh my... now that's three games in a row with highly visible dives by Carlton players.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/match-review-shock-as-cats-star-sanctioned-over-act-great-claimed-was-playing-for-a-free-kick/news-story/4019264312794c2bd1da2d7a62460ab0

 

Diving is a policy at Carlton.

knowing maynard, i am however prepared to give the carlscum player the benefit of the doubt

[Brownie 5,969]

4 hours ago, jnrmac said:

Have been thinking about the horrendous state of umpiring Here are my thoughts. 

1. It seems to me one of the most contentious issue is players being given the opportunity to dispose of the ball. The 'prior opportunity rule'.

Most seem to agree that we want to reward the player who gets the ball. But when tackled, they should be pinged if they:

Do not dispose of it correctly AND IMMEDIATELY by hand or foot (ie drop it, attempt to kick or HB but miss)

Players dropping the ball, spinning 360deg looking for a HB or going to ground holding the ball maybe should be penalised. The only exception I would make is if both arms were held in the tackle.

This if adjudicated correctly would see players immediately try to dispose of the ball resulting in either: play on, a free or a ball up.

There would be less room for interpretation

2. Next I would look at push in the back. Enforce the rule FFS. Players now do it with impunity. The only exception should be players trying to take a high mark within reason.

The Deliberate OOB is a joke. Bowey was pinged for this despite being shoved sideways as he was pushed.

3. Throwing is a blight on the game. I was brought up with the rule interpreted as hitting the ball with a closed fist from a stationary hand. What we have now is an abomination and it needs to be stopped

4. Positioning of the umpires does my head in. Players are aware of where the umps stand and deliberately turn or throw the ball when near the boundary. The crowd can see what happens but the blind umps cant. As for Goal umpires wTF? why do they stand side on rather than behind the ball when it is going through the sticks?

5. Scragging. Just get rid of it. If you touch a player when the ball is not within 5m you cop a free. It will stop in a nano second. 

6. The rules around Ruck contests are unfathomable to everyone. No shepherding, scragging, holding or bumping allowed. Just a clean run and jump. Fixed

There are no other games I can think of where the Umps must run a half marathon every game AND perform a skill.  Get rid of the bounce, keep the umps in Zones and allow them to move out of the central corridor. Have one stand behind the kicker when shooting for goal.

 

Rant over

The hands in the back is ok to hold your ground / push in the back not paid issue really gets to me. Some players are being shoved in the back and sent head first into a pack off balance. Someone is going to get badly hurt.

I'd also add.

Tacklers (usually multiple) dragging the ball back under a player who possessed it but has gone to ground and has tried to knock it clear along the ground.

If the tacklers are dragging it back under the player on the ground, they're really HTB and should be penalised.

Also 

Ruck nominations. Just get rid of them. Only one player from each team can jump for a ball. Just throw it up. This waiting for a ruckman to catch up from 20 metres away is just plain dumb.

Edited May 13 by Brownie

[Little Goffy 14,457]

Careless striking is a cool story.

[monoccular 17,413]

3 hours ago, Clintosaurus said:

Maysie

https://7news.com.au/sport/afl/steven-may-blows-up-at-controversial-score-review-call-during-melbournes-clash-with-carlton-c-14610051

They seem to have pulled the video - probably in embarrassment though never in shame - all I get is the still. 

[sue 9,096]

6 minutes ago, monoccular said:

They seem to have pulled the video - probably in embarrassment though never in shame - all I get is the still. 

No it's still there. Try another browser perhaps

 

[Clintosaurus 7,838]

2 minutes ago, sue said:

No it's still there. Try another browser perhaps

 

This in the article is interesting:

 

[leave it to deever 17,511]

I don't understand how rules seem to come in and out of vogue so to speak.

 The dissent rule was one that the umpires were hot on last year then they stopped enforcing it as strictly.

Doob seems to be red hot at times and I have noticed seems to be influenced by the crowd noise. I mean umps are human and it's natural that 40 thousand people screaming at you could sway most people.

But the hardest thing for me to fathom and especially for players are rules that are paid in one round and then ignored the next.

A classic example was htb. In the cats game v us, the umpires gave players no time or benefit with this. I think Clarry was pinged 3 or 4 times. And others too. Once a tackle was laid you had didley time to get rid of it.

Or worse when a rule comes and goes in a single game. Again the htb rule in us v the blues. It wasn't paid pretty much until the last quarter which was annoying because our tackles often went unrewarded. And our players would have had last week's htb vigilance foremost in their minds and as such quick to dispose before or during tackles.

Why do umps seemingly cherry pick what to pay and ignore?

Must be infuriating for the players.

We need more consistency each week and certainly in each game.

The hands in the back ( or side) is on constant interpretation limbo. Hawkins has a field day with this one.  I mean this is a classic example. A few years ago just resting a hand on someone's back was a no no. Now you can pretty much shove someone and it's play on. (Unless of course the umpires change their minds).

But it's the lane changing each few rounds that seems odd. 

Edited May 13 by leave it to deever

[Clintosaurus 7,838]

10 minutes ago, monoccular said:

They seem to have pulled the video - probably in embarrassment though never in shame - all I get is the still. 

It's up the top next to the headline.

[640MD 3,359]

2 hours ago, MT64 said:

In the main his decisions against us seem at times vindictive.  Neighbour is a Woods man and has the same opinion.

Malcolm    shame on you talking to a Pies supporter,  oh wait Catta my mate follows the Pies, but he has not been to a Match for years

[leave it to deever 17,511]

It's become clear to me that Oliver this season is given less time than a lot of players to get rid of the ball when tackled than seems the norm.

I hope Jvr isn't been targeted by umps due to previous incursions. That was a perfect tackle that was deemed dangerous. 

Cost us the game too. I know you could single out others to counteract this claim but that decision was the biggest howler of the evening and the round for sure.

I know umpires make mistakes but when there as blatant as this I would like to see them dropped for a few.