Matthew Lloyd Worried About the Dees in 2024

[binman 38,842]

10 hours ago, 3183 Dee said:

Even though we made Top 4 the last 2 years

One of the commentators must have said this 3 or 4 times in the tigers game.

Did my head in.

Its not untrue I guess, but we made top 4 in the last THREE seasons.

For pete's sake, in 2021 we finished the home and away season on top of the ladder and won the bloody flag. Third in 2022 and 4th last year. 

Not having a shot at you 3183 (i am at the commentator, and Barlow who didn't correct him once), but it is a pretty relevant ommisoon if used as a factor in how we are assessed. 

Yes we have gone out in straight sets in the last two finals, but three top 4s in succession and a flag is impressive by any measure surely.

Edited February 20 by binman

[3183 Dee 2,626]

2 minutes ago, binman said:

One of the commentators must have said this 3 or 4 times in the tigers game.

Did my head in.

Its not untrue I guess, but we made top 4 in the last THREE seasons.

For pete's sake, in 2021 we finished the home and away season on top of the ladder and won the bloody flag. Third in 2022 and 4th last year. 

Not having a shot at you 3183 (i am at the commentator, and Barlow who didn't correct him once), but it is a pretty relevant error if used as a factor in how we are assessed. 

Yes we have gone out in straight sets in the last two finals, but three top 4s in succession and a flag is impressive by any measure surely.

That’s a fair point - Top 4 in the past 3 seasons is some achievement. I guess I was highlighting the fact I haven’t been convinced over the past couple of years - I get that the ladder doesn’t lie - but I don’t quite believe this team at the moment.

[binman 38,842]

8 hours ago, Gator said:

He says Melbourne were ''shown up in the finals''.  

That is patent nonsense.  They dominated Carlton in most of the general play, but didn't close the door and lost by 2 points.  They won most metrics, i.e. clearances, contested possessions, etc.

They had 69 inside 50s to Collingwood's 37.  They had 8 more scoring shots and they also dominated contested possessions, contested marks, marks inside 50, clearances, etc., before managing to lose by 7 points.

It's obviously infuriating to lose two games we should have won, but we certainly weren't ''shown up''.

Not having either Petty or van Rooyen for both games also didn't help, but naturally that gets overlooked.

Indeed.

Shown up? Please. 

In addition to not having petty and jvr, we didnt have melk available 

Melk not only would have negated  the pies and blues intercept strengths, as one of our best kicks  surely would have made a better fist of his scoring opportunities than some of his teammates.

And of course losing Gus for all but 7 mins of the pies game, and the clear psychological impact of that incident on the team for a good quater and a half, was another huge factor.

How would have the pies gone  without Mihocek, Elliot and Johnson (I know mcstay was out, bur so was tmac and brown)?

Edited February 20 by binman

[58er 5,632]

4 hours ago, DeeZee said:

The only thing that worries me , in basic terms, is that we have had a disconnect or lack of fluidity in our forward line for two seasons now , which cost us two finals series while deep in the premiership window ,and it’s yet to be seen if this issue will be resolved.

That won’t be answered until the end of the season around Round24 or during the Finals. I also think some folks are short on memory. 2022 was the niggling injuries to a fair percentage of our troops resulting in fitness issues playing out the last half. 

2023 undoubtedly was our injuries to forwards and our failure to take our chances primarily in connectivity and accuracy. 

Now for 2024 to change that we need a good season with medium to low injuries especially our key and star forwards and that bit of luck that seems to go with all AFL premiership winners. 

[binman 38,842]

8 minutes ago, 3183 Dee said:

That’s a fair point - Top 4 in the past 3 seasons is some achievement. I guess I was highlighting the fact I haven’t been convinced over the past couple of years - I get that the ladder doesn’t lie - but I don’t quite believe this team at the moment.

Well, it would appear you are not Robinson Caruso. 

Personally I am a big believer in facts and form. And on both, only the pies could claim to have better form in the last three years. 

Does that mean we will make top 4 again this year?

No of course not.

But to be honest the facts mount a much stronger case we will make top 4 than the vibes of supporters who have endured so much heartache that we won't. 

On that point, is it hyperbole to suggest the last dees squad as consistently successfull as this was the early to mid 60s?

Perhaps collectively we are conditioned to expect failure?

I wonder if fans of the San Francisco 49ers, on the back of mutiple heartbreaks, assume their team will fall away next season? I suspect not.

[Deestar9 1,424]

19 minutes ago, 3183 Dee said:

That’s a fair point - Top 4 in the past 3 seasons is some achievement. I guess I was highlighting the fact I haven’t been convinced over the past couple of years - I get that the ladder doesn’t lie - but I don’t quite believe this team at the moment.

So I guess you’ll only

be convinced if we finish top at the end of the season & then go onto win the flag 🤔

[whatwhat say what 19,318]

prior to this last three years, no one born before 1962 has seen the dees finish top 4 at the end of the home and away season in three consecutive 

like everyone, i want to 'bank' this successful era with another flag (or four)

but to at least see us being consistently competitive is a far cry of anything we've witnessed over the last 60 or so years

Edited February 20 by whatwhat say what

[Roost it far 6,239]

41 minutes ago, binman said:

One of the commentators must have said this 3 or 4 times in the tigers game.

Did my head in.

Its not untrue I guess, but we made top 4 in the last THREE seasons.

For pete's sake, in 2021 we finished the home and away season on top of the ladder and won the bloody flag. Third in 2022 and 4th last year. 

Not having a shot at you 3183 (i am at the commentator, and Barlow who didn't correct him once), but it is a pretty relevant error if used as a factor in how we are assessed. 

Yes we have gone out in straight sets in the last two finals, but three top 4s in succession and a flag is impressive by any measure surely.

The only reason it’s not seen this way is because the list we have needs at least one more flag. Until we get it we’ll be seen as underachieving, it’s that simple.

[binman 38,842]

22 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

The only reason it’s not seen this way is because the list we have needs at least one more flag. Until we get it we’ll be seen as underachieving, it’s that simple.

Well, that's different discussion to whether we will go backwards this year.  

[Demonland 65,976]

I’ve made it quite clear there is to be no discussion on the Joel Smith case. Please respect that. 

[fr_ap 2,148]

There were several of us calling out the warning signs some time ago. The media are now jumping on board, and it's hard not to. There is little about our present situation that bodes well, leaving the usual apologists quick to point out our 3 consecutive top 4 finishes.

They were nice, but are ultimately irrelevant to this year, especially when the bottom has fallen out of the list depth-wise and we had the worst cultural offseason we've had since pre-Roos. 

There are certainly several things to be concerned about, whether you like Lloyd or agree with him or not. 

I respect Binman's analysis, but the length of his posts has direct predictive correlation to our fortunes. The worse things look, the longer his posts get. There were some particularly lengthy ones in Sunday's post match thread, and I have a feeling we're going to be reading some even longer ones before this year is up. 

I have tickets and am flying up, but I think round zero in Sydney could actually be pretty nasty. Could very well set the tone for the year. 

Edited February 20 by fr_ap

[dee-tox 4,828]

1 hour ago, binman said:

Well, it would appear you are not Robinson Caruso. 

 

Is this a combination between Robinson Crusoe and the great Italian opera singer Enrico Caruso?

[Demonstone 19,425]

10 minutes ago, dee-tox said:

Robinson Crusoe

Not forgetting his faithful sidekick, Binman Friday.  

[Superunknown 3,371]

I think this year could get ugly. Signs there for a bit.

I’ll be interested to see what happens with membership numbers given the last 2 years, off season goings on, and the economy.

 

[Sir Why You Little 34,708]

7 hours ago, Gator said:

He says Melbourne were ''shown up in the finals''.  

That is patent nonsense.  They dominated Carlton in most of the general play, but didn't close the door and lost by 2 points.  They won most metrics, i.e. clearances, contested possessions, etc.

They had 69 inside 50s to Collingwood's 37.  They had 8 more scoring shots and they also dominated contested possessions, contested marks, marks inside 50, clearances, etc., before managing to lose by 7 points.

It's obviously infuriating to lose two games we should have won, but we certainly weren't ''shown up''.

Not having either Petty or van Rooyen for both games also didn't help, but naturally that gets overlooked.

We were shown up  

September does not lie

Incredibly wasteful in the forward line

we should have won both games but failed. 
I am concerned the Senior Coach has no back up plan, against good opponents. 
 

[whatwhat say what 19,318]

2 hours ago, binman said:

Well, it would appear you are not Robinson Caruso. 

 

caruso's defensive work on robinson first rate tho

[Sir Why You Little 34,708]

7 hours ago, Gator said:

He says Melbourne were ''shown up in the finals''.  

That is patent nonsense.  They dominated Carlton in most of the general play, but didn't close the door and lost by 2 points.  They won most metrics, i.e. clearances, contested possessions, etc.

They had 69 inside 50s to Collingwood's 37.  They had 8 more scoring shots and they also dominated contested possessions, contested marks, marks inside 50, clearances, etc., before managing to lose by 7 points.

It's obviously infuriating to lose two games we should have won, but we certainly weren't ''shown up''.

Not having either Petty or van Rooyen for both games also didn't help, but naturally that gets overlooked.

You sound like The English Cricket Side 

[whatwhat say what 19,318]

Just now, Sir Why You Little said:

You sound like The English Cricket Side 

mebbe if we'd been beaten by 100s of points that'd be true

[Sir Why You Little 34,708]

9 minutes ago, whatwhat say what said:

mebbe if we'd been beaten by 100s of points that'd be true

Winning Margins are irrelevant in September 

Coulda Shoulda didn’t 

[whatwhat say what 19,318]

3 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Winning Margins are irrelevant in September 

Coulda Shoulda didn’t 

it's not like we're claiming a moral victory after the 8th worst test loss of all time

[WalkingCivilWar 32,845]

2 hours ago, fr_ap said:

There were several of us calling out the warning signs some time ago. The media are now jumping on board, and it's hard not to. There is little about our present situation that bodes well, leaving the usual apologists quick to point out our 3 consecutive top 4 finishes.

Geez and no one heard you??? Maybe you and your several others should bang on about it endlessly… oh wait, you already have. Us apologists might need to be told a million times rather than the measly 500,000 you’re currently inflicting on us.

[WalkingCivilWar 32,845]

2 hours ago, fr_ap said:

I respect Binman's analysis, but the length of his posts has direct predictive correlation to our fortunes. The worse things look, the longer his posts get. There were some particularly lengthy ones in Sunday's post match thread, and I have a feeling we're going to be reading some even longer ones before this year is up. 

Rude and unnecessary 

[DiscoStu17 156]

So they end with,
- “ if they play close to their best football, they’ll be right up there.

- Oh yeah.”

As I’ve said before, I think that a lot of these commentators have some sort of recency bias. A lot of them have grown up in an era where Melbourne did not dominate. Even a lot of supporters are reticent to see signs of good team play. 
One-day, they will be correct in their predictions.

But not this year.

[WalkingCivilWar 32,845]

2 hours ago, fr_ap said:

I have tickets and am flying up, but I think round zero in Sydney could actually be pretty nasty. Could very well set the tone for the year. 

Here’s an idea… don’t go.

Why subject yourself to what you think will be nasty?

The last thing our team needs now is a bunch of sooks masquerading as fans. 

[Fork 'em 6,558]

 

 

10 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

Rude and unnecessary 

Righto Karen.