The Premiership Window Closing?

[Pennant St Dee 11,481]

14 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Thankyou. I truly don’t think Demon Supporters en masse are angry enough about the last 2 years. We certainly should be

Don’t expect the rest of us to be as narrow minded as yourself and others. 
Theres a difference between being disappointed and being angry when there are things beyond your control which have massive impacts and don’t even think of going down the Grundy line with regard to matters within our control as it would have had zero impact on our forward structure in those finals.

 

The supporters you accuse of not being angry enough are the same supporters you accused of accepting mediocrity when they brought to yours and others attention numerous times what was happening with the development of the team.  They told you a lot of luck in terms of everything going right is needed to win flags and we had that in 2021.

What occurred in the proceeding 2 seasons is to do with human nature, luck and learnings.  Yes that word everyone hates Learnings, we started 2022 like a house on fire and fell into a decline, but let’s be honest what were to expect having gone in as reigning premiers for the first time in 57 years.

But you want us to be angry that they couldn’t foresee that and that they couldn’t foresee the Petty, Fritsch and Melksham injuries. But then again that’s me making excuses and accepting mediocrity as opposed to being a realist

[Pennant St Dee 11,481]

1 hour ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

Why does the “premiership window”have to close after a certain number of years? Why does it have to close at all? With smart recruiting, list management, coaching etc. it should be possible to remain in contention - ie. in the premiership window - for longer than the five or so years that seems to be the expectation currently. 

Because it provides a narrative for Footballing journalists to discuss and fill content

Nothing else 

FFS they closed the Cats window more times in the last decade than the Montague St bridge

 

[inanunda 327]

Officially closed. Too many confirmed and unconfirmed issues that take up too much energy and focus on the goal at hand and I'd even say the hunger full stop is not the same.

[DistrACTION Jackson 6,570]

Another side we can think about to model our future on is the Hawks.

They won their first flag in 2008 with a relatively young side, not too dissimilar to our 2021 side. It then took them another 5 years to win their second flag and they then went on to win 3 straight.

They actually had 9 players play in both 2008 and 2013 - Guerra, Birchall, Hodge, Lewis, Mitchell, Franklin, Rioli, Roughhead and Sewell.

I definitely hope we don't have to wait 3 more years, but I'm definitely not panicking about the window closing yet.

[Macca 16,173]

47 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

Gawn remains our most important player and clubs will continue to hit him hard to unnerve us

Yet against the thugs in the QF Gawn had 27 possessions & 31 hitouts

It's just a pity that we didn't have class forwards to kick it to on the back of Max's dominance

Gawn is actually quite a durable athlete that can cop a bit of battering.  He's a ruckman, that has to be expected.  It's more his legs that might be a concern

But he's getting old anyway so eventually we'll need to replace him.  The original plan was for Jackson to take over but he left for the $$$$'s (as many others have)

Edited January 11 by Macca

[Docs Demons 1,674]

Whilst we have wasted the last 2 years we should have won more finals particularly last season. We proved we are as good ,if not better than all other sides. It's well documented what our issues were up forward.  Gawn stays injury free, Oliver gets up and about sooner than later and with the newbies I believe we are well and truly right in the hunt again this season and next year. After that not to sure.

[Jjrogan 1,259]

If our premiership window is to stay open, its fully on the coach and the football department.  Teams that stay on the top for decade change their playing style as the mix of players change.  The Hawks that won the 2008 premiership looked nothing like the 2015 premiership.  Sydney for a decade looked different game to game let alone year to year. Geelong went from the dream team in 07, to hogging the ball for a few years (which almost worked), to some more run and dare. He adapted to his list and this list adapted to change. 

My biggest concern is we try and win 'the Melbourne way' consistently and exclusively. We have recruited some X factor in  McAdam and Tholstrup. You cannot have them play like Spargo and ANB. Keep them inside 50, forego some structure etc.  The game plan needs to adjust to the personnel. 

Speaking of which, May is a much bigger concern than Max imo. Max is the GOAT, but unless you find another one out there (you won't), just take anyone ffs, the position is massively overrated.  Apart from us, none of the top eight had a match winning ruckman or even one that was that important to their game plan. They all have great key backs.  The dude just needs to be competitive and neutralise the other guy.   You need to change the game plan to adjust for life after Max, not go look for the next Max. 

Edited January 11 by Jjrogan

[Macca 16,173]

36 minutes ago, Pennant St Dee said:

Because it provides a narrative for Footballing journalists to discuss and fill content

Nothing else 

FFS they closed the Cats window more times in the last decade than the Montague St bridge

 

I could probably name at least 10 clubs where their window has remained open a lot longer than 5 years (over a 60 year stretch)

The Hawks from '71 through to '91 for starters.  The Pies from '64 through to '81 (played in 7 GF's) 

There are numerous other examples 

How about the Demons from '54 to '64? 

All that mainly on the back of savvy recruiting

So do the 5 year window types think that we're going to stop recruiting talent?  Why would we do that? And free agency will eventually become much bigger than it is now so why wouldn't Taylor be all over that area of recruiting? 

There's no reason why our list can't get better.  Somehow, after finishing in the top four, 3 years in a row, we ended up with picks 6 & 13 in the draft.  That's better than a bottom club could usually hope for

And smart trading to snare McAdam & Billings.  Fullarton could surprise as well

Jason Taylor comes across as being hungry for more talent.  The man is the linchpin in my view.  The best recruiter in the business

Geelong's window remained open for 16 years and they are still thereabouts.  Built on the back of another great recruiter, Stephen Wells

 

Edited January 11 by Macca

[Sir Why You Little 34,938]

38 minutes ago, Pennant St Dee said:

Don’t expect the rest of us to be as narrow minded as yourself and others. 
Theres a difference between being disappointed and being angry when there are things beyond your control which have massive impacts and don’t even think of going down the Grundy line with regard to matters within our control as it would have had zero impact on our forward structure in those finals.

 

The supporters you accuse of not being angry enough are the same supporters you accused of accepting mediocrity when they brought to yours and others attention numerous times what was happening with the development of the team.  They told you a lot of luck in terms of everything going right is needed to win flags and we had that in 2021.

What occurred in the proceeding 2 seasons is to do with human nature, luck and learnings.  Yes that word everyone hates Learnings, we started 2022 like a house on fire and fell into a decline, but let’s be honest what were to expect having gone in as reigning premiers for the first time in 57 years.

But you want us to be angry that they couldn’t foresee that and that they couldn’t foresee the Petty, Fritsch and Melksham injuries. But then again that’s me making excuses and accepting mediocrity as opposed to being a realist

Don’t tell me to be Passive, just because you are

If what i think is not to your liking, don’t converse

WE HAVE THROWN AWAY 2 CUPS

[titan_uranus 22,778]

15 hours ago, Diamond_Jim said:

We have not got ourselves a "game changer" since Petracca and Oliver.

The game plan is highly susceptible in key games

Can we win it from 6 in 2024 ?

Not only is this wrong (Pickett and Fritsch were drafted, May and Lever traded in, and that's been me thinking about it for 5 seconds), it's also not a good argument.

How many "game changers" does Collingwood have? Or Brisbane? How many does a side need?

[drdrake 3,054]

The window is open as long as your trading and drafting continues to help improve.  Have we added better quality players to our list, not for 2023 season, for 2024 McAdam, Fullarton and Billings traded in to fill gaps, but we lose Melksham injured, Grundy, Harmes, Jordan.

What can B Brown and TMac offer in 2024, vital in 2021 but no impact foe last 2 seasons?

Will Petty be healthy and partner up with JVR?

We all know we can get the ball inside our f50, can we improve on the delivery to convert into more goals.

The window is open, but we do have some serious questions on a few players and how we have played.

[Demon Dynasty 15,975]

18 hours ago, picket fence said:

"Gone with the wind" is very real!

Serious overtime at Casey (blowing-a-gale) fields can have that effect Mr Fence

[tiers 2,785]

As I have said earlier in this thread the so-called "premiership window" is not closed and we are as good a chance as any other team.

We have an outstanding list, most of whom are in their prime (25-30), with no obvious weaknesses or lack of good options in any position or line.

That Maxie is around 30 is no worry - he has played fewer than 200 games (lost his early years to injury) and has many good seasons ahead of him if managed properly. Grundy was the "management" solution but Grundy could only ruck and offered nothing in any other role and became a list clogger. Sad, because he was good.

I noticed last year that JVR and Petty could also perform well in the ruck, but of course not to Maxie's standard but still serviceable, and offer a path to being competitive without Maxie. Even TMac is an option. However we would have to rebuild a game plan and style based on a competitive, not dominating, ruck. I note that apart from the wooden English there are no dominant ruckmen playing elsewhere.

Maysie is another seemingly near to the end but not so. Fletcher at the bummers payed until he was nearly 40 because full back, while a testing position, is not as wearying as further up the ground. Maysie's got many years ahead especially as he has a classy back six around him.

Clarrie is my only concern but I hold out hope that his problems are manageable and he will return as good, if not better, than ever. In the meantime, our remaining midfielders including Tracca, Viney, Brayshaw, Sparrow, Nibbles, Kozzie together with our best in league specialist wingmen Hunter and Langdon will still be able to dominate.

I am confident.

GO DEES

 

 

 

 

[Macca 16,173]

We're not a one-man team and it should be remembered that we won 7 from 10 when Clarrie was out last season

Besides which, he'll be back and will in effect, strengthen our line-up from an overall season point of view

If we lose Smith, we're not losing a star.  With our depth, we can easily cover his absence.  But I believe he'll be back this year as well (at some stage) 

So, I'm confident he won't serve anything close to 2 years

The Petty question remains.  Again, with a full list of forwards to choose from (and that includes Brown & T-Mac) we should be able to cover for him.  But we need him fit and firing when he returns.  So there's no rush

The bonus might be Melksham returning later in the year.  Billings & McAdam add goalkicking capabilities up forward as might Tholstrup

I can see Kozzie & Petracca sharing a 60/40 role in the forward line (1 of them in for the centre bounces & out the back of stoppages) We need their dynamism forward and in the middle

Fritsch is another player who missed 7 games in a stretch last season.  And wasn't match-fit when he did come back.  So there's a lot of upside despite what the doomsayers are predicting

Last year was 2023, not 2013

 

Edited January 11 by Macca

[Demon Dynasty 15,975]

1 hour ago, inanunda said:

Officially closed. Too many confirmed and unconfirmed issues that take up too much energy and focus on the goal at hand and I'd even say the hunger full stop is not the same.

From an energy / distraction perspective it would appear as if this may be so in the short to medium term.

The off field issues (and some on field ones) obviously a major part of all this.  Anyone who thinks otherwise has their head in the sand imv.

Rightly or wrongly (and yes i've been wrong many times and may well be here) there's also been a wiff of NQR about the club ever since the notorious Entrecote episode.

Mere coincidence?  Possibly.  But one thing i do know, the faux pas we've witnessed (those we know of) only began to emerge from that moment onwards.

I also think SG would need to have a significant change up to his playing style / game plan if we're to have any chance of cracking another one under his tenure.

Is this possible?  Of course.  Likely?  Who knows.  Going on past experience,  SG doesn't come across as the avant-garde type.

However given our last two finals series flops, he may have to be from here on if he's going to get us into another big dance.  More of the same can't be the mantra from here on surely?

The first few rounds should certainly paint a fairly clear picture about whether he's decided to make a  noticeable change up or not during the off-season.

If he doesn't i would be pretty worried about our prospects in 2024.

Edited January 11 by Demon Dynasty

[Pennant St Dee 11,481]

38 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Don’t tell me to be Passive, just because you are

If what i think is not to your liking, don’t converse

WE HAVE THROWN AWAY 2 CUPS

Okay just remember your place, leave the knowledgeable to discuss what is happening onfield and you can continue to wallow in your miserable MFCSS world. Then again it was you calling for Goodwin to resign last season after our loss to Carlton.

I have no doubt you have never had to plan for a footy season and ride the highs and lows it brings whilst accepting and acknowledging how hard flags are to win and having that mindset that if everything goes right you can win it.

You curse things and go through everything mentally what you did and didn’t do but you don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater and you certainly don’t fail to acknowledge progression in developing players and continuous list improvement 

[Macca 16,173]

1 hour ago, drdrake said:

The window is open as long as your trading and drafting continues to help improve.  Have we added better quality players to our list, not for 2023 season

We added Hunter for the 2023 season (and Grundy) Jed Adams & Jefferson were also drafted and it's way too early to judge either draftee

Verrell & Sestan were added as rookies and again, it's too early to judge those 2 players

Kade Chandler was elevated from rookie status for 2023 and played nearly every game

The Grundy experiment was worth the risk as we needed another ruckman anyway and he didn't cost us much.  No risk, no reward

Hunter had a solid year despite what his chief naysayer (here) has to say

And let's not forget the unearthing of JVR & McVee (both debuted in 2023)

We might look back at the players added for the 2023 season as a success

Right now, it's too early to tell

[Demonsterative 2,103]

4 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Don’t tell me to be Passive, just because you are

If what i think is not to your liking, don’t converse

WE HAVE THROWN AWAY 2 CUPS

SWYL (can I finish your username quote/sentence? 😳😜).
 

STFU!
 

Your black and white thinking (filth thinking) is plain boring and tiresome!

 

Read the room

[Sir Why You Little 34,938]

3 minutes ago, Demonsterative said:

SWYL (can I finish your username quote/sentence? 😳😜).
 

STFU!
 

Your black and white thinking (filth thinking) is plain boring and tiresome!

 

Read the room

No worries…

Our Supporter Base is far more passive than i thought 

Reading the Room 

STFU indeed…

[Demonsterative 2,103]

Just now, Sir Why You Little said:

No worries…

Our Supporter Base is far more passive than i thought 

Reading the Room 

STFU indeed…

Thank you. Whatever it takes. 
 

Peace and tranquility ✌️

[Sir Why You Little 34,938]

3 hours ago, Pennant St Dee said:

Okay just remember your place, leave the knowledgeable to discuss what is happening onfield and you can continue to wallow in your miserable MFCSS world. Then again it was you calling for Goodwin to resign last season after our loss to Carlton.

I have no doubt you have never had to plan for a footy season and ride the highs and lows it brings whilst accepting and acknowledging how hard flags are to win and having that mindset that if everything goes right you can win it.

You curse things and go through everything mentally what you did and didn’t do but you don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater and you certainly don’t fail to acknowledge progression in developing players and continuous list improvement 

What a load of self serving twaddle. 
I would have Kept Yze and said goodbye to Goodwin at the end of ‘23, Yep

Many Players have progressed to a point , but they don’t have the same drive (attitude) as has been there before. Too many Slow Starts 

Goodwin is a very stubborn man, particularly on Matchday, and that was a big factor in Adem leaving 

Take it or Leave, you have no idea Who or What i know about the MFC. 

2 Cups have been thrown away, you may accept that, that is entirely up to you, but i certainly don’t have to Parrot Fashion your views. 

[Demonsterative 2,103]

Yep, Yze had a career goal to stay an assistant and not coach one of the biggest sporting clubs in the country. 
 

STFUuuuuuuuuuuP

[Sir Why You Little 34,938]

12 minutes ago, Demonsterative said:

Yep, Yze had a career goal to stay an assistant and not coach one of the biggest sporting clubs in the country. 
 

STFUuuuuuuuuuuP

You are just being demonsterative now, when did i ever mention that Young Yze should remain an assistant coach…?

His presence will be missed 

[Bystander 894]

On 10/01/2024 at 18:57, demoncat said:

Shh… you’re making too much sense for the media and the negative nancies on Demonland 

In all seriousness we have had mitigating circumstances the past two seasons - particularly 2023 - that have meant we haven’t been able to perform at anywhere near our best, particularly come finals time 

Clearly there are some coaching, gameplan and personnel weaknesses that have exacerbated this, but more than anything it has been bad luck with injuries that has crueled us

And I reckon new recruits, fire in the belly and a bit of good luck will take us a long way in 2024

which recruit did you have in mind ??   fire in the belly ???  luck is a possibility. Good luck with that.

[BDA 20,638]

Suggest we move on from season 2023. It's just flogging a dead horse.

Just one point I'd like to make. Stevie May was wrong. We were not the best team last season and, in my opinion, did not let a flag slip. We finished 4th and went out in straight sets for a reason. We huffed and puffed through most of the year. We were hard work to watch.

Pies were the best team. finished top at the end of H&A, played daring attacking footy, won lots of close games and got the job done in September. They rode their luck for sure but they made their luck. I hate them with a passion but they deserved their flag.

If injuries don't cruel us again we'll be in it up to our necks in 24.

Go Dees