POSTGAME: Rd 18 vs Brisbane

[Clayton van Oliver 1,823]

Had to go to a wedding in DE that was (appropriately) a German catholic  / expat saints supporters affair. Listened to the 3rd qtr on the radio while riding my bike to the train station and watched the last qtr on the train on my phone, headphones in, making incomprehensible gestures amidst confused Dutch commuters. Floated through the wedding weekend in a crowd littered with farmers, doctors and tigers supporters. There was one Dockers fan who had only recently learned what their first pick this year will be.

Re the game: live I felt so bereft in the 3rd qtr and the miraculous nature of the comeback. On replay, however, it was just a really even tussle. Even when they were right on top we still managed to stay with them. Woey Jnr's goal and Maxy's ROOST came against the flow of play but defied the Lions managing to grab the game by the throat. When that moment came, it was our leaders of the now and leaders of the future that got a grasp. The media narrative is already that we stole it, or 'how did Brisbane lose?'. Pish. We were as dominant as they were for periods and more so when it mattered. Go you beautiful Dees

❤️💙

Edited July 17, 2023 by AmDamDemon

[sue 9,142]

49 minutes ago, Macca said:

It is wrong

My attitude to dissent was that frivolous acts should not be punished but obvious dissent should be punished.  And everything inbetween needs to be judged correctly

So get your facts straight and stop twisting my words

Try as you might, you'll never catch me out.  I'm nothing but consistent with my views on all things umpiring

No my memory is right. Based on posts you liked and your own posts in April.  You stated your first thought was to allow some slack in what's allowed like waving arms in exasperation  but then added you felt that could get out of hand so finally you said:

"So whatever the ruling is, it needs to be clear cut ... and zero tolerance eliminates doubt"

Rules should be as clear cut as possible, but  abuse and moderate dissent are different.

I am happy we now agree that some slack should be allowed to indicate the players questioning/displeasure (but no abuse).  I suspect a bit of abuse is being let through at the moment, but my lip reading is not up to the task.

[Macca 17,032]

1 hour ago, layzie said:

#gonebutnotforgotten 

What shouldn't be forgotten was that he went into bat for minority groups and those groups that were vilified.  That stuff was admirable

[Gawnhub 1]

George, who was your favourite player on Friday night and why was it Jake Melksham?

[Macca 17,032]

2 minutes ago, sue said:

No my memory is right. Based on posts you liked and your own posts in April.  You stated your first thought was to allow some slack in what's allowed like waving arms in exasperation  but then added you felt that could get out of hand so finally you said:

"So whatever the ruling is, it needs to be clear cut ... and zero tolerance eliminates doubt"

Rules should be as clear cut as possible, but  abuse and moderate dissent are different.

I am happy we now agree that some slack should be allowed to indicate the players questioning/displeasure (but no abuse).  I suspect a bit of abuse is being let through at the moment, but my lip reading is not up to the task.

You're twisting my words again ... if anything above frivolous is asking for trouble, then zero tolerance could be applied

So don't ask for trouble is what I was saying back then.  All the way up to outright abuse

Besides which, there was a lot of grey overhanging what was going on

They've now got it about right but the players have pulled their heads in too

[Bitter but optimistic 22,246]

1 hour ago, loges said:

BBO am I right in saying you were strangely missing after the big win Friday night. I got a fair way through reading the after game posts and couldn't recall reading any of yours?

Correct Loges - I wasn't my usual chipper self that night.

However, you are welcome to peruse some of my past posts - you'll be a better man for it.

 

( Just joking. Even I wouldn't read my posts again )

[layzie 33,991]

15 minutes ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

Correct Loges - I wasn't my usual chipper self that night.

However, you are welcome to peruse some of my past posts - you'll be a better man for it.

 

( Just joking. Even I wouldn't read my posts again )

The important thing is that you'll be back!

[Monbon 1,840]

21 hours ago, Monbon said:

The 'push' was something which happens a thousand times a game; had Daniher - he is known for vying for Academy Awards - not 'dropped' the call was 'Play On'. It was as bad an acting job as Merrett's for which he has just been fined. Maybe it's an Essendon gene pool thing...

A quote from Demonblog: 

May certainly placed his hands in Daniher's back and made a pushing motion, but it wasn't any worse than the usual jostle between forward and defender. The difference was Joe pitching forward as if hit by a truck. This is where we discovered that the dissent rule is dead, because May went off chops to the point where I thought he might do a John Bourke and tip the umpire over. 

[Guest]

45 minutes ago, layzie said:

The important thing is that you'll be back!

You misspelled “unfortunate” Layz. 😜

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Gawnhub said:

George, who was your favourite player on Friday night and why was it Jake Melksham?

Hi Gawnhub, I think you meant to post this in the podcast thread.

Incidentally, Melks was my favourite player on Friday night! ♥️💙

[Pates 9,660]

On 7/16/2023 at 8:02 PM, kev martin said:

Watched the replay. 

We dominated the last quarter, those saying we got lucky or stole it, are wrong I reckon. Four misses early on, continued pushing, played desperate, and had belief. We opened the forward area well, and that gave us the ability to compete and score.

What I would like to see us develop, is the ability to clear the ball out of the backline. The Saints held it in and Brissy did it for those two quarters that we lost. They forced multiple entries on us, as we struggled to get the ball past the centre. We fell off their players and our zone got picked because we didn't have time to set it. We need to either find a boundary, a releasing mark, a corridor or maintain possession, when exiting.

Can't let the oppo put that much pressure on our backs.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that noticed this. At the ground I was saying to my dad, "how did this happen???" but the truth was we were all over them for 90% of the quarter but we just weren't taking our chances until we finally did with Melk x2, Kozzie, and Viney. I put a lot of that down to a good talk at 3 quarter time of don't give in" but also the Lions went into "protecting mode" from the moment Daniher got his goal 3min into the quarter. I of course give us huge credit for coming back but they played very poor footy for most of the quarter.

Can i also make a comment that after Kozzie was sick against the Saints and practically useless, we picked an underdone Harry Petty who looked hampered from the end of the 1st quarter. Can we please stop picking players that are hurt/injured and instead trust our depth to get the job done? I can only imagine they are giving the players way to much of an ability to make the decision on whether they are picked. We looked a so much better team the moment Smith came on for Petty.

[layzie 33,991]

Whoever said we were lucky to win or stole it doesn't know a damn thing about football.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,291]

19 hours ago, loges said:

Did you miss the word with?

Yep I did! Sorry mate 😳

[Dr. Gonzo 24,291]

13 hours ago, old55 said:

How about players' inconsistencies? Missing set shots from 25m out, dropped marks, fumbles, missed tackles?

Umpiring errors do happen but they can't be perfect either.

Those are skill errors though. You can't compare them to umpiring errors.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,291]

11 hours ago, Macca said:

Ha ha!

You know, if there was any real proof that the umpires cheat, I'd be up for a small fortune right now

Millions of $$$$'s down the gurgler!  The Kew residence would be on the market (I'd have to move to Burwood boarding with dc)

Come on, come at me!  Show me the proof and I'll show you the money Jerry Maguire style

What do you consider proof? Whispers in the sky? It's happened overseas (pretty sure there was an NBA official caught cheating and definitely in soccer) so don't know why AFL would be immune

[Macca 17,032]

Just now, Dr. Gonzo said:

What do you consider proof? Whispers in the sky? It's happened overseas (pretty sure there was an NBA official caught cheating and definitely in soccer) so don't know why AFL would be immune

Knowing my luck there will be breaking news on Thursday involving some sort of AFL betting scandal on Demon games

If that happens I will exit the joint never to be heard of again.  I will completely disappear, Gonzo

(You'll have to run the NFL tipping comp)

[spirit of norm smith 16,588]

The Age

Melbourne d Brisbane Lions

It is still nigh on impossible to get a read on the 2021 premiers, after they bookended Friday night’s win with a flurry of goals but struggled in between. The Demons are also the last team to beat Collingwood, and ran the Power very close at Adelaide Oval, so their best form stacks up. Coach Simon Goodwin insists they have time to bed down their best 23. Clayton Oliver and Bayley Fritsch remain out with respective injuries, while million-dollar ruckman Brodie Grundy faces a race against time to prove he can be valuable not just as a ruckman but also as a forward. The bigger problem for Grundy might be how good Max Gawn was against the Lions without having to spend so much time in attack. Gawn is a six-time All-Australian ruckman for a reason, and there is a distinct possibility that Grundy might watch Melbourne’s finals campaign from the stands.

 

Click bait journalists again. Forecasting Grundy will be out of the team now and forever more.   

Edited July 17, 2023 by spirit of norm smith
P

[layzie 33,991]

34 minutes ago, Macca said:

Knowing my luck there will be breaking news on Thursday involving some sort of AFL betting scandal on Demon games

If that happens I will exit the joint never to be heard of again.  I will completely disappear, Gonzo

(You'll have to run the NFL tipping comp)

Yep 2nd'd, I'm not doing it!

[Kent 2,914]

17 hours ago, Watson11 said:

I thought we completely changed it up.  In qtrs 1 to 3 we were content to zone back and left easy kicks for them coming out of our forward 50, especially on the switch.  They had it pretty easy coming out and that style was different to what we did against the Pies and others recently.  We let them play on their terms.

But in the last, we didn’t let them have any easy kicks out of d50 and they had few options other than kicking long usually to Max.  It was totally on our terms.

We won some contested posse ions and a couple of marks inside 50  Brisbane also tired and lost some run Thought all they had to do was hang on

[rpfc 28,769]

8 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

The Age

Melbourne d Brisbane Lions

It is still nigh on impossible to get a read on the 2021 premiers, after they bookended Friday night’s win with a flurry of goals but struggled in between. The Demons are also the last team to beat Collingwood, and ran the Power very close at Adelaide Oval, so their best form stacks up. Coach Simon Goodwin insists they have time to bed down their best 23. Clayton Oliver and Bayley Fritsch remain out with respective injuries, while million-dollar ruckman Brodie Grundy faces a race against time to prove he can be valuable not just as a ruckman but also as a forward. The bigger problem for Grundy might be how good Max Gawn was against the Lions without having to spend so much time in attack. Gawn is a six-time All-Australian ruckman for a reason, and there is a distinct possibility that Grundy might watch Melbourne’s finals campaign from the stands.

 

Click bait journalists again. Forecasting Grundy will be out of the team now and forever more.   

Or the finals.

How about we just own the decision to drop him - we just don’t know what will happen from here this season?

[old55 23,687]

10 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Those are skill errors though. You can't compare them to umpiring errors.

So umpiring positioning and decision making is not a skill? What is it then?

If you want to try to split hairs and say that decision making is different from a physical skill, then I respond with it's clear that players regularly make decisions making errors too. "Why didn't he kick it to Kossie open at the top of the square?"  "Why did Fritsch take the shot instead of handball?"  We've all heard it a million times here.

Players and umpires make some errors under pressure.

[leave it to deever 17,517]

Gee, with the cats storming home with a few Kardinia games left, our lions win was huge in so many ways.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,291]

58 minutes ago, old55 said:

So umpiring positioning and decision making is not a skill? What is it then?

If you want to try to split hairs and say that decision making is different from a physical skill, then I respond with it's clear that players regularly make decisions making errors too. "Why didn't he kick it to Kossie open at the top of the square?"  "Why did Fritsch take the shot instead of handball?"  We've all heard it a million times here.

Players and umpires make some errors under pressure.

Agreed but the pressure is different. Umpires are under mental pressure, players are under mental and physical pressure. Umpires don't have to worry about making a decision before getting barrelled into and ridden into the ground so I think they're incomparable. I know others will disagree but that's my opinion. Umpires in AFL are swayed by the crowd/momentum of the game far too much. This does happen in other sports too but I feel it happens to a larger degree in the AFL.

[titan_uranus 25,043]

14 hours ago, Pates said:

I'm glad I'm not the only one that noticed this. At the ground I was saying to my dad, "how did this happen???" but the truth was we were all over them for 90% of the quarter but we just weren't taking our chances until we finally did with Melk x2, Kozzie, and Viney. I put a lot of that down to a good talk at 3 quarter time of don't give in" but also the Lions went into "protecting mode" from the moment Daniher got his goal 3min into the quarter. I of course give us huge credit for coming back but they played very poor footy for most of the quarter.

Can i also make a comment that after Kozzie was sick against the Saints and practically useless, we picked an underdone Harry Petty who looked hampered from the end of the 1st quarter. Can we please stop picking players that are hurt/injured and instead trust our depth to get the job done? I can only imagine they are giving the players way to much of an ability to make the decision on whether they are picked. We looked a so much better team the moment Smith came on for Petty.

Agree with all this.

You're not the only one to have mentioned it but it's unfair/wrong to suggest we were only good for the first 10 and the last 10 minutes. We were clearly the better side the entire first and last quarters, and that on its own is an achievement given everyone (rightly) has Brisbane as a flag contender.

Also agree re: Petty. He didn't look right from the start.

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,939]

Some other modern day 1 point wins to add to the collection:

2020 v's Carlton - lock down game at Marvel. The first game upon resumption of the season. A poor win if we're being honest after nearly blowing a large lead.

2019 V's Gold Coast - The Marty Hore and T Mac 7 point play at the death to perform twilight robbery on the Coast.

2014 V's Essendon - Salem goal with 10 seconds left. A remarkable win over the much higher fancied Bombers.

2010 V's Port - Nearly blew a 33 point 3 quarter time lead in Darwin. Brad Green kicked the last goal and I think one of our blokes rushed an own point to win the game.

2008 V's Brisbane - The game where Jimmy and Aussie W's Dad were celebrating together in the MCG stands. One of only 3 treasured wins for the season. Miller went nuts with 4 snags.

2005 v's Geelong - The greatest ever Kardinia park win if not for Max's goal in 2021. A 17 year hoodoo was broken after conceding a 6 goal deficit. Those who made the trip down were rewarded in spades.

1999 V's Hawthorn - A Friday night close call at the MCG. Recall Robbo thumping through a rushed behind to put us in front in the dying seconds. A rare highlight in one of Melbourne's most disappointing seasons in the AFL era considering our 1998 spectacular year.

1991 Vs St Kilda - Our final ever game at Moorabbin. Jakovich kicked 8 and I recall we had a comfortable 3 quarter time lead but only kicked 1 goal in the last quarter to fall over the line. I didn't attend but I suspect the Dees fans at the ground would've been pumped with that one.

 

 

Edited July 19, 2023 by Bring-Back-Powell