How you react to anything in life is more about yourself than what you are reacting to. 

8 hours ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

Sounding a bit like a Goodwin clone here, but we nearly won yesterday while playing badly and I'm sure there were plenty of lessons for us to learn.  ...just like we did post 2020.

If you really were a clone of Goody instead of using the correct grammar you would have said taken some learnings. 

Edited May 28, 20231 yr by Rab D Nesbitt

SEN and AFL Media both with articles tonight about Melbourne needing to beat a top 4 side. Our record against top 4 and top 8 sides across 2022 and now 2023 is starting to give me Daniher-era vibes. We'd linger around the top most of the season but as soon as we faced a genuine contender we'd get convincingly beaten. We're no where near that but the vibes I get from neutral fans is similar.

The current group have stagnated. There has been little of the persistent evolution that characterises successful teams. Apart from Rivers I can’t think of any other player that has made meaningful progress. This is an indictment on those who pretend to manage the group. It’s a team game so if you are unable or willing to unite the components the lack of achievement is a forgone conclusion.

What should happen is collecting the whole machinery together and asking each member to be completely frank honest and open as to what tf is breaking down even if it’s controversial. Those who say that there is nothing to see should be given marching orders.

It’s pretty clear that some players who contributed to the recent success are now past it and should be moved on. Gawn is one of them. Stop pretending that he is 5 years younger and less prone to significant injury/ reduction of usable output.

Some one who can thoroughly articulate the current set of circumstances without holding back or kidding themselves needs to ask chat gpt4 for suggestions. Laugh all you like it’s worth a try and trust me will be employed by other teams in some incarnation. Don’t accept the do nothing option. There is much that could be set up for next year. I suspect success is unavailable for this group as they stand this season.

41 minutes ago, praha said:

SEN and AFL Media both with articles tonight about Melbourne needing to beat a top 4 side. Our record against top 4 and top 8 sides across 2022 and now 2023 is starting to give me Daniher-era vibes. We'd linger around the top most of the season but as soon as we faced a genuine contender we'd get convincingly beaten. We're no where near that but the vibes I get from neutral fans is similar.

We're natural targets.... deservedly

2 hours ago, BDA said:

My point is we can’t go gung ho immediately because the pies are much better at the attacking brand than we are. They’ve be doing it for 18 months now.

I reckon we should try to pinch Leppa off them or hire a similarly minded assistant to join our coaching team. I’m not sure we have the skills to execute like the pies do but that’s the way the game is going. We have to move with the times.

In terms of what to do in the immediate term I’d bring BB in and drop JVR (he needs a spell). Bring in a 3^rd tall defender which might help Lever regain his form. Maybe get the ball into Salems and Bowey hands and ask them to hit the corridor more. Put a rocket under our small brigade and tell them to get their collective finger out, including kossie.

Why are the pies better? Because they play that way now? Have you watched them play? They turn the ball over a lot but their opponents aren’t always able to hurt them going the other way. They defend well, but when they do have it they only bomb it inside 50 as a last resort. The way they play rattles a lot of sides plus their relentless pressure creates turnovers and opportunities. I’d like to see us play that way for the first 1/2 of every 1/4 next week. It doesn’t take a full preseason to change the way you play.

If Leppitsch is going anywhere surely it’s as a senior coach. Have none of our coaches got any new ideas, are we unable to watch opposition games and make our own analysis?

Are the Pies that skilful? Their best kick is arguably in his last season. Player for player, our list matches up quite well. Pies have also been struck with injuries this year but their system / gameplan holds up well, and yes there’s a bit of luck involved. We’re not going to find luck hugging the boundary line.

I agree with bringing in another tall defender, I think once Petty returns he has to go back. We need to let Lever play his natural game. I’m not sure BB is the answer, if we don’t change the way we deliver into fwd 50 it won’t matter who’s playing up fwd. JVR has been given game time but have we given him the best chance to succeed. When going for a mark inside forward 50 he’s often competing against multiple defenders because our fwds don’t separate.

3 hours ago, Pennant St Dee said:

Really, don’t say things you don’t 100% mean then or are they children. Some of them must look at their game day threads and be embarrassed in hindsight.

Just because others are more controlled and don’t go into meltdown doesn’t mean they 

dont care

are less invested or

settle for mediocrity 

they have probably just learned from years of watching that there are peaks and troughs in games and seasons. None of our players go out there and don’t try or don’t care no matter what posters think. Some are down on form, confidence and have brain fades but the comments from posters towards our players and football department are pathetic 

 

A good post but I don't think I fit the profile of any of that. I don't viciously attack the players or the club and I never ever said that people more controlled are less passionate.

It's kind of funny by the way how most of the people who have been level headed have admitted to venting frustrations at the game but because they refrained to post any of those frustrations on an internet message board, that made them more 'controlled'. For what it's worth I didn't throw my toys out of the cot at the G, I didnt abuse our players as they walked off, I didn't piff a nearly finished glass of beer at a Freo fan doing the Freo chant like the person two rows behind me did at the final siren, I'm a very controlled fan and going onto a message board to write a few lines doesn't change that.

Its been 24 hours now, II'm happy to move on.

1 hour ago, layzie said:

A good post but I don't think I fit the profile of any of that. I don't viciously attack the players or the club and I never ever said that people more controlled are less passionate.

It's kind of funny by the way how most of the people who have been level headed have admitted to venting frustrations at the game but because they refrained to post any of those frustrations on an internet message board, that made them more 'controlled'. For what it's worth I didn't throw my toys out of the cot at the G, I didnt abuse our players as they walked off, I didn't piff a nearly finished glass of beer at a Freo fan doing the Freo chant like the person two rows behind me did at the final siren, I'm a very controlled fan and going onto a message board to write a few lines doesn't change that.

Its been 24 hours now, II'm happy to move on.

My post whilst in response to yours wasn’t directed towards you layzie, it was directed towards the regular game day posters who just can’t wait to vent and turn on our players in an instant 

11 hours ago, Mel Bourne said:

Wholeheartedly agree. I went on my own and was alternating between yelling my guts out and being quietly incensed at the silence of supporters who were sitting in groups around me. 
 

I do often wonder if our players have genuine issues with their supporters, and the lack of support they offer compared to other teams. 

Been mentioned by others that our home ground advantage does not equate to a home crowd advantage.  To me that is a real concern and embarrassment at times.

And sure I get the pros and cons of whether it was appropriate or not to boo Jackson (each to their own), but then to actually listen to the applauds he got from some of our fans!!!  Seriously?

I reckon this would be the only AFL team forum where if someone suggested it was more polite to clap than to cheer that there would be serious debate.

Finished venting, feeling a lot better, thanks 

 

Better finish off on a positive. 11 rounds in, 4th on the ladder with the highest percentage.

All we need now is a win or three in a row. GO DEES! (And as many supporters as possible to turn up to our home games at the very least)

14 hours ago, Jaded No More said:

I love this club, but I’m not blind to its faults. We are seeing our own history from last season repeat itself. We seem to have not improved in the areas that hurt us last season either.

Aside from the nature of yesterday's loss (RE ball movement), what is this based on at all? We've improved our scoring sources, ball movement and experimented with personnel to lessen the load on Gawn, Clarry, Trac and Viney.

The areas that hurt last season were stodgy, predictable and slow ball movement, and an inability to defend ground ball in D50.

I'd argue we haven't seen a big improvement on the defenaive ground ball, but otherwise, weve improved our ability to fenerare scores from different sources, with an unpredictable forward mix.

Sure, around the ground stoppages need to improve numbers wise, but with our best three mids in there nore often, I would be surprised if that doesn't improve.

14 hours ago, Jaded No More said:

To bury your head in the sand and say oh we only lost our last two games by 11 points, is to paper over the cracks in a very convenient way to the narrative that we all so desperately want to believe, which is that things will get better and we will win the flag in 2023. 

I'm not sure it's a fair analysis to call what I'm saying burying my head in the sand. Nowhere have I said our performances the last fortnight have been good enough. And I've very definitely said that yesterday's loss was "pathetic".

It's less about a narrative and more about realism. You're never going to get 23 rounds of perfect football. We didn't even deliver that in the brilliance of 2021. We had the same doubters coming for us then too.

Of course, we have to improve, but the point I keep trying to make is that you could have been saying these exact same things to Hawthorn or Richmond supporters the years they won their flags. Given our travel thus far and lack of continuity with the side, to be 7-4 and 4th, we have a second half draw that I know you know is very VIC based and should give us a chance to cement our top 4 spot.

Yeah, we do have to win another 8-10 games to make top 4, but I expect us to win the majority of Carlton (x2), Geelong, GWS, St Kilda, Richmond, North, Hawthorn and Sydney. And we have home games against the Lions and Adelaide, which are eminently winnable. Neither teams are the same teams away from home.

I have no idea whether we're going to win the flag, all I'm saying is, all is not as bad as it may seem.

14 hours ago, binman said:

If you were sitting anywhere within a 100 metre radius of me yesterday you would have no doubt how passionate, frustrated and disappointed I was. My throat is ruined.

On a related point, I have not generally been critical of dees fans not showing up. But yesterday was pathetic. 29k on a perfect Saturday arvo for footy. 

And I'm positive it would have made a difference if there was more vocal passionate dees at the ground. For one thing we might have actually won a God damn holding the ball free. 

So anyone who is on board the dees are rubbish train who could have gone yesterday (i dont mean those who cant, live interstate, have mobility issues, had a funeral, were getting married, have covid etc etc) but chose not to - you are part of the problem not the solution. Buy a mirror.

I'd lost my voice by half time. The MCC for the most part have painfully little understanding of the game and rarely get going vocally.

At every centre bounce, I'd be yelling something. Everyone else pretty much nothing.

I'm passionate, frustrated and irrational at times during games. It's afterwards that I become contemplative.

5 hours ago, praha said:

SEN and AFL Media both with articles tonight about Melbourne needing to beat a top 4 side. Our record against top 4 and top 8 sides across 2022 and now 2023 is starting to give me Daniher-era vibes. We'd linger around the top most of the season but as soon as we faced a genuine contender we'd get convincingly beaten. We're no where near that but the vibes I get from neutral fans is similar.

Just like the 2014 Hawks, hey?

Finished 2nd, but lost to 1st, 3rd, 4th and 5th. So they lost to everyone else in the top 4 and 5th...

The footy media have the attention span of a rock.

On 5/27/2023 at 8:09 PM, fr_ap said:

You're right, but I think what we're all sensing and feeling is further success slipping away. There is immense, palpable disappointment in the air that isn't far off despair. 

The losses are one thing; the missed tackles, lack of appetite, shirked efforts, finger pointing, lack of enjoyment and utterly destroyed chemistry/cohesion is another thing entirely. I think this is what has people so upset. 

As footy supporters we react to trends in our potency. To win is great. To lose is deflating, warranting problem resolution and second thoughts on such experiences. 

I can't be bothered reading this entire thread, but it's clear to me that there are two types of Melbourne supporters. One who were calling for change 10 games into Mark Neeld's coaching career when it was clear that we were going rapidly backwards, and two who would still be preaching patience and positivity after five years of watching him destroy the club. I know which attitude is more likely to lead to success. 

11 hours ago, AmDamDemon said:

How you react to anything in life is more about yourself than what you are reacting to. 

HOW DARE YOU

1 hour ago, poita said:

I can't be bothered reading this entire thread, but it's clear to me that there are two types of Melbourne supporters. One who were calling for change 10 games into Mark Neeld's coaching career when it was clear that we were going rapidly backwards, and two who would still be preaching patience and positivity after five years of watching him destroy the club. I know which attitude is more likely to lead to success. 

I can redefine your categories as this: one who snaps to pessimism immediately, the other who don’t. 

You are the president of the former. It would not surprise me if you called for Goodwin to be sacked in 2017, let alone in 2019, without having the patience (or simply just the ability to be anything other than wholly negative) to wait for him to take us to the 2021 flag.

13 hours ago, binman said:

Unfortunatley you are probably right.

But if so, isn't that an indictment on dees fans?

Blues are in a horror strecth, the jungle drums are startng to beat for their coach and finals look a struggle. 

We are fourth on the ladder after 11 rounds.

And it is very possible more blues fan's might turn up for a demon's home game?

My personal philosopy is that the players don't owe me anything. My choice to go next Friday is not going to be based on some sense of disapointment in their perfomance againnst Freo.

I'm going on Friday night, come rain or shine, to support my team, and our players

And unfortunately i fully expect the game to be a real struggle, not unlike the freo game, with lots of scrappy play and missed targets. Tis the season for the folly. 

And so it is likley to be a close game - maybe if enough dees fan that can get there do get there, we might be able to collectively lift them over the line if it gets close.

I went to more games when we were  absolutely [censored] not that long ago than I do now. Part of that is the advancing year problems / night games. But after winning the flag my level of enthusiasm has reduced. I am weighing up going next Friday night. It will have to be by car no chance by train because they stab you out this way. Now we have a decent side there is a part of me that says the team don't need me there any longer. 

Edited May 28, 20231 yr by old dee

13 hours ago, Jaded No More said:

You obviously didn’t post much during the Neeld era. Those were the days 😂

We are in a very different era now. It’s a different type of disappointment when we lose because we are good enough to win in nearly every game. It stings more, but overall it’s a lot less depressing. 

I went to more games than I do now. Funny things humans. I agree we knew we would lose. Most games were over at quarter time. Low expections so low disappointment. Now big expectations and big disappointment. 

Edited May 28, 20231 yr by old dee

13 hours ago, binman said:

Unfortunatley you are probably right.

But if so, isn't that an indictment on dees fans?

Blues are in a horror strecth, the jungle drums are startng to beat for their coach and finals look a struggle. 

We are fourth on the ladder after 11 rounds.

And it is very possible more blues fan's might turn up for a demon's home game?

My personal philosopy is that the players don't owe me anything. My choice to go next Friday is not going to be based on some sense of disapointment in their perfomance againnst Freo.

I'm going on Friday night, come rain or shine, to support my team, and our players

And unfortunately i fully expect the game to be a real struggle, not unlike the freo game, with lots of scrappy play and missed targets. Tis the season for the folly. 

And so it is likley to be a close game - maybe if enough dees fan that can get there do get there, we might be able to collectively lift them over the line if it gets close.

Saturday is old news to me now and I'm ready to re-load again. My choice to go is also not based on disappointed and more about going no matter what, after a win or a loss. 

It would be disappointing if the result turned people away from a premo Fri night timeslot. I expect a scrap as well and won't be tearing my hair out if there isn't 8 goals on the board by quarter time from us, it's a two team sport and they have been bashed around a lot in the media lately so they have something to prove.

If people can, get down there. The team needs us. 

3 minutes ago, layzie said:

Saturday is old news to me now and I'm ready to re-load again. My choice to go is also not based on disappointed and more about going no matter what, after a win or a loss. 

It would be disappointing if the result turned people away from a premo Fri night timeslot. I expect a scrap as well and won't be tearing my hair out if there isn't 8 goals on the board by quarter time from us, it's a two team sport and they have been bashed around a lot in the media lately so they have something to prove.

If people can, get down there. The team needs us. 

Do you really believe the last line layzie? Seems to me they play because they love it and want to win. Does it really matter if there are 25 or 40k supporters there? I doubt 40 K Dee supporters make much more noise than 25. 

3 minutes ago, old dee said:

Do you really believe the last line layzie? Seems to me they play because they love it and want to win. Does it really matter if there are 25 or 40k supporters there? I doubt 40 K Dee supporters make much more noise than 25. 

I have to agree with Binman on this OD. On Saturday when we were storming back in the last the crowd was doing everything they could to urge the team on, it was a game of inches and the little things looked like they could make the big difference. I don't know how much louder the crowd would have been with an extra 5-10K but it could have helped us over the line on that particular day. 

5 minutes ago, layzie said:

I have to agree with Binman on this OD. On Saturday when we were storming back in the last the crowd was doing everything they could to urge the team on, it was a game of inches and the little things looked like they could make the big difference. I don't know how much louder the crowd would have been with an extra 5-10K but it could have helped us over the line on that particular day. 

Then I am incorrect it would seem. I never played any sport In front of a big crowd ( not good enough ) while games could be close and very willing I seldom heard anything outside of the field even when there was a small vocal crowd. Too busy trying to get a kick and win. Funny last Saturday I knew it would be a low number crowd it's what MFC do we are not locked into footy like other clubs. I put it down to decades of poor performance. 

Edited May 28, 20231 yr by old dee

2 minutes ago, old dee said:

Then I am incorrect it would seem. I never played any sport In front of a big crowd ( not good enough ) while games could be close and very willing I seldom heard anything outside of the field even when there was a small vocal crowd. Too busy trying to get a kick and win. 

Not saying you're wrong but Saturday seemed to be a game where we just needed that little extra. 

10 minutes ago, layzie said:

Not saying you're wrong but Saturday seemed to be a game where we just needed that little extra. 

The G is not good when there is a small crowd that is spread out. That game with 25k in the enclosed confines of AFL park ( I know that is not the name) would have sounded way better. While we all hate it games against gws, Freo, wce should be played there. 25 - 30k attendance works better than at the G. We simply don't have enough mad fans to play those games at the G. It's one of the reasons I think this preoccupation to have a home near the G is silly. It doesn't mean anything to the average fan just the fanatics and we don't have many of them. 

Edited May 28, 20231 yr by old dee