TRAINING: Monday 1st May, 2023

[kev martin 9,340]

1 hour ago, Wodjathefirst said:

Surely big bad Max is scheduled to do a goal kicking session with Choko sometime this week! (I love the big fella but I must admit I get mighty nervous at times when he is lining up in front of the big sticks).

I  have observed that Mark Williams really empathises the ball drop, without that you cannot hit it sweetly. I have also seen him indicate to get the ball over the leg, not to hold the ball in the centre of the body, to move straight at the goal, have the hips and shoulders well positioned and he can tell if the player kicks a goal by the sound of the impact.

Max has a kind of, move the ball a bit pendulum like, as he strides in. I am sure Williams has been putting some time into Max, as he has with all of them. Though, I have not seen one on one, I agree he needs some input, but not as nervous as some. In Max I have trust, when we need him he will stand up.

Love how steady Tracc now holds the ball, when striding in on his set shots.

 

Edited May 1, 2023 by kev martin

[Gawndy the Great 8,061]

23 minutes ago, kev martin said:

I  have observed that Mark Williams really empathises the ball drop, without that you cannot hit it sweetly. I have also seen him indicate to get the ball over the leg, not to hold the ball in the centre of the body, to move straight at the goal, have the hips and shoulders well positioned and he can tell if the player kicks a goal by the sound of the impact.

Max has a kind of, move the ball a bit pendulum like, as he strides in. I am sure Williams has been putting some time into Max, as he has with all of them. Though, have not seen one on one, I agree he needs some input, but not as nervous as some. In Max I have trust, when we need him he will stand up.

Love how steady Tracc now holds the ball, when striding in on his set shots.

 

Max also has an infamous off right walk on set shots that almost always results in a hook. Walking square to goal with a. Decent ball drop is going to land you in good outcomes most of the time.

[Demon Dynasty 16,412]

Kev if you are hitting training again this week i'd he interested in your views on Maysie pls.

In terms of what sort of drills, the level he is involved at vs others in the def group like Lever & Hibb and his physicality in general if possible.

[Kent 2,679]

8 hours ago, kev martin said:

I  have observed that Mark Williams really empathises the ball drop, without that you cannot hit it sweetly. I have also seen him indicate to get the ball over the leg, not to hold the ball in the centre of the body, to move straight at the goal, have the hips and shoulders well positioned and he can tell if the player kicks a goal by the sound of the impact.

Max has a kind of, move the ball a bit pendulum like, as he strides in. I am sure Williams has been putting some time into Max, as he has with all of them. Though, I have not seen one on one, I agree he needs some input, but not as nervous as some. In Max I have trust, when we need him he will stand up.

Love how steady Tracc now holds the ball, when striding in on his set shots.

 

I really feel sorry for the ball drop as well😁

[buck_nekkid 5,648]

When are they heading up to QLD?

[Lucifers Hero 37,524]

14 hours ago, 12345_54321 said:

Still think we work and our defence works better with the Petty/Lever/May trio. Also because I don’t think Petty is a forward at all. 

That is most probably true.

However, our system is designed to have two talls in our forward line:  a combo of: Brown, TMac, Gawn, Schache, Petty but we don't have the Curnow/McKay, Cameron/Hawkins, Daniher/Hipwood duos.

So, as I see it our talls are not there to kick goals.  They are there to give us 'aerial presence' and stop the trillion i50 intercept marks of yesteryear.  They are to stop opp tall defenders from playing as a 'spare' in a contest.  Their job is to mark or bring ball to ground.  To support this view, collectively, they have kicked just 22 of our 120 goals this season. 

As long as our defence holds up and in the absence of an alternative, Petty will play forward altho there is still plenty of time to experiment with who are the two talls each week.

imv Brown and TMc don't have that 'aerial presence' any more and I suspect it is Brown's knee and TMc's foot that inhibit their leap.  They are now in the 'break glass in emergency' category.

Edited May 2, 2023 by Lucifers Hero

[dee-tox 4,831]

3 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

To highlight this, collectively, they have kicked just 22 of our 120 goals this season. 

 

Interestingly, BBB had eight of these in the first two rounds.

[Lucifers Hero 37,524]

Just now, dee-tox said:

 

Interestingly, BBB had eight of these in the first two rounds.

But hasn't been selected since available which is why I have him in the 'emergency' category.  In Gawn and Petty we have better options.

[dee-tox 4,831]

6 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

But hasn't been selected since available which is why I have him in the 'emergency' category.  In Gawn and Petty we have better options.

Maybe... but in my mere opinion 4 goals each against the Lions and Dogs is probably the best performance of any of our key position forwards this season. Still an important player.

[layzie 30,451]

10 hours ago, kev martin said:

I  have observed that Mark Williams really empathises the ball drop, without that you cannot hit it sweetly. I have also seen him indicate to get the ball over the leg, not to hold the ball in the centre of the body, to move straight at the goal, have the hips and shoulders well positioned and he can tell if the player kicks a goal by the sound of the impact.

Max has a kind of, move the ball a bit pendulum like, as he strides in. I am sure Williams has been putting some time into Max, as he has with all of them. Though, I have not seen one on one, I agree he needs some input, but not as nervous as some. In Max I have trust, when we need him he will stand up.

Love how steady Tracc now holds the ball, when striding in on his set shots.

 

His last couple of shots he's just ever so slightly reverted back to that higher ball drop. I'm sure they are really putting work into this and it's going to take time to make it second nature. It's always hard with Max because the ball has further to travel to get to his foot than others!

At that Sunday Captain's run I was at he really does focus on this things he needs to do to guide that ball down and I like that he'll randomly take a set shot at any time to simulate a match like situation. He's already made so much progress!

[Neil Crompton 4,993]

I thought it interesting to watch and compare Trac’s ball drops on Saturday. The goal he kicked on the run where he had to kick across his body slightly, he almost placed the ball onto his foot - and it never looked like missing. Yet on his set shots his ball drop was from way up high, and he (and we) was not confident the shots would go through - yet they just managed to. I think the day Trac is able to master the ball drop (for all his kicks) will be the day he starts his Brownlow Medal run.

[binman 39,698]

13 hours ago, rpfc said:

I’m implying he’s 19 and played a lot back in his junior days, I give him a lot of time because it is the hardest position on the field but from what I can see (and it is hard on TV) his leading patterns are a bit odd and he sometimes run himself out of position. 

And i don't think he is fit enough yet to do the sort of up and down the ground donkey work Petty (or if in the team, Tmac) does when playing forward. And hasn't been doing it.

I'm guessing Goody would prefer he say closer to goal and remain as 'fresh' as possible to maximise his impact.

[rpfc 27,693]

3 minutes ago, binman said:

And i don't think he is fit enough yet to do the sort of up and down the ground donkey work Petty (or if in the team, Tmac) does when playing forward. And hasn't been doing it.

I'm guessing Goody would prefer he say closer to goal and remain as 'fresh' as possible to maximise his impact.

Also harder to get ‘lost’ closer to goal; always in the eye line for the last kick in, packs form and can be crashed - job done.

But that puts pressure on Petty up the ground…

And I am not saying that we shouldn’t put reps in to these two - we just have to be prepared for games where they are MIA.

[binman 39,698]

32 minutes ago, rpfc said:

And I am not saying that we shouldn’t put reps in to these two - we just have to be prepared for games where they are MIA.

I agree with this as it relates to JVR (not sure who the other player you are referring to is).

Against both the tigers and the roos he went for long periods without very few marks, kick or handbal.

As we know, he was just about to be subbed off against the tigers before going nuts because he had barely touched the pill. 

Sure, he competes hard inside 50 and creates great contests.

But if he is not getting up the ground, he will not directly impact the game for big chunks of time (ie maybe the ball is inside our 50 something like 25% of the total match time?).

A bit like Kossie in his first season, we have to accept that ATM if he is playing ones. 

[binman 39,698]

Just now, binman said:

I agree with this as it relates to JVR (not sure who the other player you are referring to is).

Against both the tigers and the roos he went for long periods without very few marks, kick or handbal.

As we know, he was just about to be subbed off against the tigers before going nuts because he had barely touched the pill. 

Sure, he competes hard inside 50 and creates great contests.

But if he is not getting up the ground, he will not directly impact the game for big chunks of time (ie maybe the ball is inside our 50 something like 25% of the total match time?).

A bit like Kossie in his first season, we have to accept that ATM if he is playing ones. 

Thye might send him back to Casy at some stage to give him anfew matches where is he involved more (eg run him as the back up ruck, use him in the Tmac role etc)

[Gawndy the Great 8,061]

3 minutes ago, binman said:

Thye might send him back to Casy at some stage to give him anfew matches where is he involved more (eg run him as the back up ruck, use him in the Tmac role etc)

Agreed - that is part of his development 

[Jeremy 729]

11 minutes ago, binman said:

 

Against both the tigers and the roos he went for long periods without very few marks, kick or handbal.

As we know, he was just about to be subbed off against the tigers before going nuts because he had barely touched the pill. 

Sure, he competes hard inside 50 and creates great contests.

But if he is not getting up the ground, he will not directly impact the game for big chunks of time (ie maybe the ball is inside our 50 something like 25% of the total match time?).

Not going to claim to know myself but how much of it is JVR being a novice vs our system? I reckon I could count on two hands how many times I’ve seen us lower our eyes and hit Ben Brown on a lead to take an easy chest mark. That’s all he ever did at North, at the Dees he and all the other talls seem to be surrounded by 5-6 other players every time they try and take a mark. Pretty tough being a tall in our group I reckon, a lot of just bombing it high inside 50 and expecting a miracle grab. Can’t really expect JVR to do what he did in the last quarter vs Richmond all the time surrounded by 4-5 players, that was special but would love to see us give him some isolation and easier disposals/marks. Not claiming to know the answer but when I’m at a game it’s starting to catch my eye and can imagine it being pretty frustrating for the forwards

 

[kev martin 9,340]

6 hours ago, Demon Dynasty said:

Kev if you are hitting training again this week i'd he interested in your views on Maysie pls.

In terms of what sort of drills, the level he is involved at vs others in the def group like Lever & Hibb and his physicality in general if possible.

They will be at Casey (probably) Wednesday for the main run,  and then up to Queensland. 

I'll give him some consideration next time I see May at Gosch's, though it would be the main training and sims, when the system and the real stuff is revealed. 

From Mondays session, he appeared to be jovial, working and running just as hard as anyone. He is usually around the defenders, it seems a kind of club within a club.

[Rockets 1]

Are they having a session at Gosch’s before their flight to GC? Can never find training times updates anywhere :) 

[binman 39,698]

17 minutes ago, Lewis said:

Not going to claim to know myself but how much of it is JVR being a novice vs our system? I reckon I could count on two hands how many times I’ve seen us lower our eyes and hit Ben Brown on a lead to take an easy chest mark. That’s all he ever did at North, at the Dees he and all the other talls seem to be surrounded by 5-6 other players every time they try and take a mark. Pretty tough being a tall in our group I reckon, a lot of just bombing it high inside 50 and expecting a miracle grab. Can’t really expect JVR to do what he did in the last quarter vs Richmond all the time surrounded by 4-5 players, that was special but would love to see us give him some isolation and easier disposals/marks. Not claiming to know the answer but when I’m at a game it’s starting to catch my eye and can imagine it being pretty frustrating for the forwards

 

All fair points.

But, really in footy now there is rarely any clear leading lanes. 

And except when the game really opens up or an opponent gets a super quick transition, all forward areas are usually crowded meaning lots of big packs and few one on ones.

The cats are a little bit of an outlier in this regard because they really work hard to create as many one on ones for Hawkins as possible- for example by Cameron playing as a high hallf forward. But still their forward zone is usually crowded 

[Demon Dynasty 16,412]

1 hour ago, kev martin said:

They will be at Casey (probably) Wednesday for the main run,  and then up to Queensland. 

I'll give him some consideration next time I see May at Gosch's, though it would be the main training and sims, when the system and the real stuff is revealed. 

From Mondays session, he appeared to be jovial, working and running just as hard as anyone. He is usually around the defenders, it seems a kind of club within a club.

Any tidbits a bonus ... no pressure. 

Thanks again for your great work Kev

[Jaded No More 60,237]

1 hour ago, binman said:

All fair points.

But, really in footy now there is rarely any clear leading lanes. 

And except when the game really opens up or an opponent gets a super quick transition, all forward areas are usually crowded meaning lots of big packs and few one on ones.

The cats are a little bit of an outlier in this regard because they really work hard to create as many one on ones for Hawkins as possible- for example by Cameron playing as a high hallf forward. But still their forward zone is usually crowded 

Yep, the days of an open forwardline and forwards taking multiple chest marks a game are gone.

The only way you can achieve this is with absolute centre clearance dominance thanks to 6-6-6. 

But beyond that, good luck. 

[forever demons 1,970]

On 5/1/2023 at 4:21 PM, old dee said:

You have my vote Mr. Leg

 

On 5/1/2023 at 4:21 PM, old dee said:

You have my vote Mr. Leg

I am with you Oldy

[beelzebub 22,762]

To offer a different view...( i know ...lol )

Harking back ...many decades... i played in the fwd line... not the arc...as none then...lol...  but the essence of forward craft hasn't really changed... really..it hasnt...

For mine...its about delivery....always... 

Just dont bomb it in...  smart teams arrange for the ball to GET to the fwds... dumb teams bomb and createa lotto event.

We have sufficient players to kick goals... i wish theyd worry more about the style/method of delivery.

It wont then require this weekly cringe of... who. 

[old55 21,917]

5 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

To offer a different view...( i know ...lol )

Harking back ...many decades... i played in the fwd line... not the arc...as none then...lol...  but the essence of forward craft hasn't really changed... really..it hasnt...

For mine...its about delivery....always... 

Just dont bomb it in...  smart teams arrange for the ball to GET to the fwds... dumb teams bomb and createa lotto event.

We have sufficient players to kick goals... i wish theyd worry more about the style/method of delivery.

It wont then require this weekly cringe of... who. 

If it hasn't changed then we must have had a batch of hopeless forwards for the last 10 years - the Coleman Medal winner hasn't scored more than 80 goals, with 8 of the last 10 years below 70.  Compared with the 1990s when the lowest was 81 goals and there were 6 years above 110 goals. 8 below 70 vs 6 above 110.