Love that Jeffo is finally in the team and looking good...he already looks the part but looking forward to him putting on a bit more size, exciting to think of him and JVR developing together in our forward line.

I think Jeffo’s development will very much depend on how we enter the forward 50. If we bomb it in long, his development will be long and slow - if at all. However, if we lower our eyes and look for a leading forward, then his development will be significantly quicker - due to his pace, leading skills and footy IQ. He looks far more skilful than JVR, but lacks his aggression. If we play the smart forward entry game, I think these two will be a great pair, complementing each other nicely.

9 minutes ago, Neil Crompton said:

I think Jeffo’s development will very much depend on how we enter the forward 50. If we bomb it in long, his development will be long and slow - if at all. However, if we lower our eyes and look for a leading forward, then his development will be significantly quicker - due to his pace, leading skills and footy IQ. He looks far more skilful than JVR, but lacks his aggression. If we play the smart forward entry game, I think these two will be a great pair, complementing each other nicely.

hence the need for Spargo

44 minutes ago, chook fowler said:

hence the need for Spargo

And why fritter is playing HF.

Fritter has played his best footy as a deep, lead into space forward.

Exactly the role Jefferson is playing. Two don't fit into one.

Edited March 21Mar 21 by binman

9 hours ago, binman said:

One thing I really like about him is he times his leads really well.

And he's pretty quick so he gets into space.

If he can stick some marks he'll get some looks.

You could see it in the behind the goals vision as windsor broke those two tackles. He drifted off his man and got the seperation for windsors beauty of a kick.

I think he will stick some marks, he plucks some in the VFL

I think he will prove to be a great foil for van rooyen. JVR the one on one beast, and jeffo the more leading and crafty type forward. 

Thinking about it now a JVR, Jefferson and Turner forward line could be something special in a few years time, looking forward to hopefully seeing them combine this weekend. All have some different attributes that might compliment each other, only time will tell

1 hour ago, binman said:

And why fritter is playing HF.

Fritter has played his best footy as a deep, lead into space forward.

Exactly the role Jefferson is playing. Two don't fit into one.

Binman he has hardly played a good game in the last 18 months, i struggle with why week after week he is gifted games. He is still living off the 21 GF performance.

5 minutes ago, old dee said:

Binman he has hardly played a good game in the last 18 months, i struggle with why week after week he is gifted games. He is still living off the 21 GF performance.

He has been our leading goal kicker for the last five straight seasons. Think that might have something to do with it?

1 hour ago, JTR said:

He has been our leading goal kicker for the last five straight seasons. Think that might have something to do with it?

 It is easy to be the top when there is no competition.  In his career he has had two good years:  2021 and 2022 which were two years when we went deep into the finals.

Given our i50's it isn't lack of opportunity for either goal scoring, goal assists or i50 pressure.  He has a good goals cameo every now and then and that seems to be enough for him.

I have been a fan but that is wearing thin especially as he did nothing last week, in his own milestone game.  If he can't chase, tackle and play with intent in such a game, when the win was there for the taking, will he ever...🤷‍♀️ 

I hate to say it but he is becoming Jack Watts mark 11.

Edited March 21Mar 21 by Lucifers Hero

58 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

It is easy to be the top when there is no competition

If he has no competition, who is going to come in and score the goals if we drop him? 

Since our premiership year he has only had 7 goalless games, including the weekend just gone. 
 

 

58 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

I have been a fan but that is wearing thin especially as he did nothing last week, in his own milestone game.  If he can't chase, tackle and play with intent in such a game, when the win was there for the taking, will he ever...🤷‍♀️

Did you go to the game?
And I know people get very touchy about that question so don't ask to be disparaging... I am just curious whether your observation of his game was in person or on TV?

I haven't seen the TV replay so don't know how it came across there, but I commented in joeboy's thread earlier in the week that despite not hitting the scoreboard, the other things you mention are exactly what he WAS doing.

Him getting in and amongst it was quite noticeable compared to what I have come to expect from him and it was good to see.
A couple of neutrals I had at the game with me observed the same.

Edited March 21Mar 21 by JTR

7 minutes ago, JTR said:

If he has no competition, who is going to come in and score the goals if we drop him? 

Since our premiership year he has only had 7 goalless games, including the weekend just gone. 
 

 

Did you go to the game?
And I know people get very touchy about that question so don't ask to be disparaging... I am just curious whether your observation of his game was in person or on TV?

I haven't seen the TV replay so don't know how it came across there, but I commented in joeboy's thread earlier in the week that despite not hitting the scoreboard, the other things you mention are exactly what he WAS doing.

Him getting in and amongst it was quite noticeable compared to what I have come to expect from him and it was good to see.
A couple of neutrals I had at the game with me observed the same.

 

I guess we can pull isolated stats all day long but one stat doesn't tell the full story.   If he was involved more then perhaps others would kick the goals when he isn't.

 

Yes, I was at the game.  I saw him attempt to tackle or chase etc but my point was he lacked intent.   As it was he had only 3 tackles.  Not sure he acutally chased down anyone or even got close enough to lunge at them.  I don't have the stats for the 1% things but to me looked half hearted. 

I'm not sure there is a lot of point bogging this thread down with a Fritsch discussion.  I've made my points so will leave it at that.

1 hour ago, Lucifers Hero said:

 I hate to say it but he is becoming Jack Watts mark 11.

Didn't you spend your life defending this bloke and his performanaces ?

9 minutes ago, Gator said:

Didn't you spend your life defending this bloke and his performanaces ?

Yes I did as I have with Fritsch.

But one learns and I eventually accepted there wasn't a place for Watts' style in a our team.  Which is why I find Fritsch so frustrating - he could contribute so much more to the team.

Ironically, Fritsch is who we chose with the trade pick we got for Jack.  I sincerely hope he doesn't suffer the same fate.

Edited March 21Mar 21 by Lucifers Hero

2 hours ago, old dee said:

Binman he has hardly played a good game in the last 18 months, i struggle with why week after week he is gifted games. He is still living off the 21 GF performance.

I had to read this three times od. I missed the “he” after binman, I thought you were saying Binnie hasn’t played a good game for 18 months 😒

10 minutes ago, In Harmes Way said:

I had to read this three times od. I missed the “he” after binman, I thought you were saying Binnie hasn’t played a good game for 18 months 😒

I think he meant he hasn’t had a good post in 18 months but I could be wrong.

2 hours ago, Lucifers Hero said:

 It is easy to be the top when there is no competition.  In his career he has had two good years:  2021 and 2022 which were two years when we went deep into the finals.

Given our i50's it isn't lack of opportunity for either goal scoring, goal assists or i50 pressure.  He has a good goals cameo every now and then and that seems to be enough for him.

I have been a fan but that is wearing thin especially as he did nothing last week, in his own milestone game.  If he can't chase, tackle and play with intent in such a game, when the win was there for the taking, will he ever...🤷‍♀️ 

I hate to say it but he is becoming Jack Watts mark 11.

The lack of goals and goal assists are the biggest problem. The pressure numbers were fine against GWS, 13 pressure acts was the same as Henderson and better than Sharp, Trac and Rivers. Watching the game, there were several times he was gut running hard out of F50 to put on defensive pressure. 

We all know how good he can be, so there is high expectations but he is no Jack Watts. No need to slander a current or former player in this way. 

Edited March 21Mar 21 by MrFreeze

2 hours ago, Lucifers Hero said:

 It is easy to be the top when there is no competition.  In his career he has had two good years:  2021 and 2022 which were two years when we went deep into the finals.

Given our i50's it isn't lack of opportunity for either goal scoring, goal assists or i50 pressure.  He has a good goals cameo every now and then and that seems to be enough for him.

I have been a fan but that is wearing thin especially as he did nothing last week, in his own milestone game.  If he can't chase, tackle and play with intent in such a game, when the win was there for the taking, will he ever...🤷‍♀️ 

I hate to say it but he is becoming Jack Watts mark 11.

Exactly LH!

1 hour ago, In Harmes Way said:

I had to read this three times od. I missed the “he” after binman, I thought you were saying Binnie hasn’t played a good game for 18 months 😒

 

13 minutes ago, old dee said:

Exactly LH!

We were discussing Fritz. He had another shocker last week. 

6 hours ago, old dee said:

Binman he has hardly played a good game in the last 18 months, i struggle with why week after week he is gifted games. He is still living off the 21 GF performance.

I agree with this and the muted rap on Jefferson's effort on debut.

Goodwin and the FD are aware we need to make some radical changes if we are to be a top side.

A fit Trac and Clarry will only improve us so much. Same with our back line. And these players are all 4 years older than when we were premiers.

Most sides get far better every yeary The Hawks now look nothing like the mob we played early last year.

We need two big forwards. We need Fritta to get fair dinkum.

3 minutes ago, M_9 said:

I agree with this and the muted rap on Jefferson's effort on debut.

Goodwin and the FD are aware we need to make some radical changes if we are to be a top side.

A fit Trac and Clarry will only improve us so much. Same with our back line. And these players are all 4 years older than when we were premiers.

Most sides get far better every yeary The Hawks now look nothing like the mob we played early last year.

We need two big forwards. We need Fritta to get fair dinkum.

Who are the two big forwards that have turned the tide for Hawthorn?

It's not forwardline personnel, it's ball movement and system.

Lindsay, Windsor, McVee and Salem are the guys to change our fortunes with greater dare and ability to execute.

21 minutes ago, Adam The God said:

Who are the two big forwards that have turned the tide for Hawthorn?

It's not forwardline personnel, it's ball movement and system.

...

Chol (200cm) has booted 5.3 in the Hawks two games.

Gunston (193cm) booted 2 last night 

The Hawks have a mosquito fleet of forwards that we don't have. 

AJ (193cm) has booted one more goal than Chandler, as well as laying more tackles (5 cf 4).

We have ONE small forward. And he ain't playing.

1 hour ago, M_9 said:

Chol (200cm) has booted 5.3 in the Hawks two games.

Gunston (193cm) booted 2 last night 

The Hawks have a mosquito fleet of forwards that we don't have. 

AJ (193cm) has booted one more goal than Chandler, as well as laying more tackles (5 cf 4).

We have ONE small forward. And he ain't playing.

Chol and Gunston kicking snags leading a forwardline. What more proof do you need that forwards are overrated and it's all about ball movement and midfield dominance! 

7 hours ago, JTR said:

If he has no competition, who is going to come in and score the goals if we drop him? 

Since our premiership year he has only had 7 goalless games, including the weekend just gone. 
 

 

Did you go to the game?
And I know people get very touchy about that question so don't ask to be disparaging... I am just curious whether your observation of his game was in person or on TV?

I haven't seen the TV replay so don't know how it came across there, but I commented in joeboy's thread earlier in the week that despite not hitting the scoreboard, the other things you mention are exactly what he WAS doing.

Him getting in and amongst it was quite noticeable compared to what I have come to expect from him and it was good to see.
A couple of neutrals I had at the game with me observed the same.

But we lost JTR! Why? Someone must have costs us the win. 

2 hours ago, adonski said:

Chol and Gunston kicking snags leading a forwardline. What more proof do you need that forwards are overrated and it's all about ball movement and midfield dominance! 

You asked who were Hawthorn's two big forwards. And I answered. 

I agree that ball movement is paramount, and I've quoted Daniel Hoyne on that topic.

The Hawks have a good balance of talls, mid size, and one very dangerous small forward.

We have Kosi, occasionally Fritta and occasionally JvR (when he's not rucking).

How about we try something different in our forward line? Play MJ and leave JvR forward. 

Alternatively we could try to improve our delivery into the forward fifty - just like we did last year. And the year before. And the year before that.

The Fritsch/Watts comparison might be the most redundant thing I've ever seen. Aside from not loving grappling with defenders and having played at both ends, they have 0 in common.

36 minutes ago, Pirlo said:

The Fritsch/Watts comparison might be the most redundant thing I've ever seen. Aside from not loving grappling with defenders and having played at both ends, they have 0 in common.

It's not something I have much givenagree, but I can't agree.

Friiiter and Wattsy actually both have quite a lot in commo. Both:

- smooth movers

- elite field kicks

- elite and super reliable shots at goal

- brilliant one on one in marking contests

- have/had good hands

- have/had high footy iq

- have/had similar disposal average 

- criticised for not being sufficiently hard at it

- have/had fans questioning their best 22 lock status 

But, apart from all of the above, an you say not liking grappling with defenders and playing at HB, id agree they have nothing in common.