CASEY: Grand Final vs Southport

[DeeZone 10,136]

10 hours ago, Left Foot Snap said:

Almost seems they got Chandler and Bedford mixed up.

Agree thought Chandler was top 5 for us.!!

[layzie 34,014]

7 minutes ago, DeeZone said:

Agree thought Chandler was top 5 for us.!!

Without a doubt, looked hungry. 23 touches and 7 tackles.

[YesitwasaWin4theAges 6,708]

On 9/18/2022 at 5:08 PM, Demon Dynasty said:

Terrible conditions for a tallish running rookie player today.  Wouldn't be placing much emphasis on how he's likely to go just on today.

His attack on the ball was the most encouraging part of his game and his 2nd efforts especially a ripper tackle on center wing.

[Willmoy1947 4,140]

15 hours ago, Brownie said:

I thought The Weed has done really well over the past 6 weeks in the ruck. Full credit to him for really persevering.

The only thing I think that's holding him back is his marking. He's still not clunking those marks like Mitch Brown and JVR usually do.

If he can get his overhead marking sorted, I reckon he's still in the mix on our list.

In conjunction with that Brownie, and i agree, we could find that should he be tossed into all preseason games next year in that role we might just have what we want. He is going to build up a little more, more ks in the legs, more peripheral awareness. The big fella from SP was stuffed. Weideman was still going. Best performance of the year in my book in a position that were we to lose in, with his opponent able to palm, we would have lost that game.

[deespicable me 1,498]

I reckon there are 3 or 4 players from the Casey side who would immediately make our AFL side better.

Turner. Played mostly on a small for Southport and pretty much towelled him up. Is young, reads the play well and hits targets coming out. Would replace Hibbo with him and let Hibbo get himself ready for the second half of the year, to see if he can get back in the side. The other alternative is Salem. I personally (knowing that many would disagree, and understandably so) would look to trade Salem. If the return and money saving is worth it . Otherwise tell him he needs to do a lot of work berfore and during pre-season because at this stage he's not best 22. 

Woewodin. Plays wing. Is super strong and fit and will improve if he commits over the off season. Takes JJ's role which is a bit sad but I think JJ needs to look at developing a secondary role as he is ok as a winger but isn't quick enough and hasn't really made the wing his spot, never to lose. Maybe a half back flank but they are already taken, JJ's other option is to work on leg speed.

JVR. This is pretty obvious, he is a unique talent and with a further pre-season, fitter, stronger and with maybe 5 more kilos on his impressive frame, should be starting 22

Weidemann. Has done everything asked of him, has had a player who he can naturally replace,  (admittedly as a slight downgrade) a player leaving, and in the last third of the VFL season has finally excelled in a position. He has obviously taken longer to develop to the point where many think he won't make it but give him the position, tell him he's considered top 22 and tell the Pies to get stuffed.

Just a further point on why we are chasing Grundy. We are being soft on Max. It's the wrong call because Max wants an easier life. Max has been and will always be, a champion for Melbourne FC and also the AFL but he liked the idea of easing Jacko into the role and he would go forward. This hasn't worked this year. It did last year. And more importantly getting Grundy reinforces a game plan that has been trashed this year. Kicking down the line. Stagnant movement. it's old, Goodwin needs a new game plan not bring in a bloke that re-inforces an old one that isn't working.

Get to those blokes and tell them if they do the work they're in and we will be a better side next year. 

[Brownie 5,988]

Just finished watching the SANFL Grand Final on 7plus. It's worth a watch.
Great to see the Redlegs get up by the smallest of margins in a big armwrestle.
Pretty well umpired and they put the whistle away most of the time.

Really Really happy to see Jade Rawlings come in as coach and win a flag for the Redlegs.

I always rated him at his time at Melbourne and Casey. I thought he always did a great job with our defence and it showed again with Norwood.
It's worth watching just to see the elation on Jade's face at the end of the game. Seems like a lovely bloke.

[jnrmac 20,189]

1 hour ago, deespicable me said:

 

Just a further point on why we are chasing Grundy. We are being soft on Max. It's the wrong call because Max wants an easier life. Max has been and will always be, a champion for Melbourne FC and also the AFL but he liked the idea of easing Jacko into the role and he would go forward. This hasn't worked this year. It did last year. And more importantly getting Grundy reinforces a game plan that has been trashed this year. Kicking down the line. Stagnant movement. it's old, Goodwin needs a new game plan not bring in a bloke that re-inforces an old one that isn't working.

Get to those blokes and tell them if they do the work they're in and we will be a better side next year. 

Max was injured for the second half of the year.

Kinda debunks your theory.

[Bystander 903]

What a great day.

After some early jitters, the boys just didn't blink. Relentless in pretty uncomfortable conditions. They were never going to lose with that application.

They seemed to have played the whole season in good spirit.

Only one gripe. Why oh why do they play that terrible music after goals. It is horrible. After a goal you want to cheer, boo, explain, clarify to your mate, complain about the umpire, whatever. Leave the music to sports that need it. Our game doesn't.

Go Casey.

[deespicable me 1,498]

32 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Max was injured for the second half of the year.

Kinda debunks your theory.

I would have thought it re-inforces my theory.  What are we doing playing an injured bloke for half a year? Same with Salem. If they're injured don't play them and make new plans. Catering to injured players isn't a successful game plan. How can you put that up as an excuse?

[Willmoy1947 4,140]

2 hours ago, deespicable me said:

I reckon there are 3 or 4 players from the Casey side who would immediately make our AFL side better.

Turner. Played mostly on a small for Southport and pretty much towelled him up. Is young, reads the play well and hits targets coming out. Would replace Hibbo with him and let Hibbo get himself ready for the second half of the year, to see if he can get back in the side. The other alternative is Salem. I personally (knowing that many would disagree, and understandably so) would look to trade Salem. If the return and money saving is worth it . Otherwise tell him he needs to do a lot of work berfore and during pre-season because at this stage he's not best 22. 

Woewodin. Plays wing. Is super strong and fit and will improve if he commits over the off season. Takes JJ's role which is a bit sad but I think JJ needs to look at developing a secondary role as he is ok as a winger but isn't quick enough and hasn't really made the wing his spot, never to lose. Maybe a half back flank but they are already taken, JJ's other option is to work on leg speed.

JVR. This is pretty obvious, he is a unique talent and with a further pre-season, fitter, stronger and with maybe 5 more kilos on his impressive frame, should be starting 22

Weidemann. Has done everything asked of him, has had a player who he can naturally replace,  (admittedly as a slight downgrade) a player leaving, and in the last third of the VFL season has finally excelled in a position. He has obviously taken longer to develop to the point where many think he won't make it but give him the position, tell him he's considered top 22 and tell the Pies to get stuffed.

Just a further point on why we are chasing Grundy. We are being soft on Max. It's the wrong call because Max wants an easier life. Max has been and will always be, a champion for Melbourne FC and also the AFL but he liked the idea of easing Jacko into the role and he would go forward. This hasn't worked this year. It did last year. And more importantly getting Grundy reinforces a game plan that has been trashed this year. Kicking down the line. Stagnant movement. it's old, Goodwin needs a new game plan not bring in a bloke that re-inforces an old one that isn't working.

Get to those blokes and tell them if they do the work they're in and we will be a better side next year. 

Liked all of what you said just a little worried about delivery through and around the middle by hand and foot.

[deespicable me 1,498]

10 minutes ago, willmoy said:

Liked all of what you said just a little worried about delivery through and around the middle by hand and foot.

Agree. Trac, Oliver, Viney, Harmes. Even Sparrow and Brayshaw. Not one of these players at the moment are elite ball users. The two teams that adopted our game plan in Swans and Collingwood use the ball better than us. Pendlebury as the pivot in the middle of the ground is elite. Swans are more prepared to keep movement on the ball when required. Both teams are high intensity, high pressure and create opportunities through turnover. Similar to the last 3 premiership winners in Melbourne, Richmond and Dogs.

Interesting that dogs did it without a ruck and a lack of kpp's. Richmond with a mosquito fleet of runners who spread so well on turnover and Martin as their Pivot and elite distributor.

Clarry could be our distributor but we seem to use him closer to the contest. As he ages we should be looking at Pendles and Martin and we should be using Clarry in a similar way. 

Surely it's a big mistake to think kicking down the line to Max and Grundy  and Ben Brown and TMac is worth pursuing as a game plan. We should be evolving, getting youth and energy back into the side, and working on fine tuning chaos ball as that is the way now. Improve our forward line. Build the team around Kossie, not Max. As fantastic as he is our Max advantage needs to be downsized as Max ages.

Edited September 20, 2022 by deespicable me
Accidently posted when not complete

[DeeSpencer 26,083]

3 hours ago, deespicable me said:

Turner. Played mostly on a small for Southport and pretty much towelled him up. Is young, reads the play well and hits targets coming out. Would replace Hibbo with him and let Hibbo get himself ready for the second half of the year, to see if he can get back in the side. The other alternative is Salem. I personally (knowing that many would disagree, and understandably so) would look to trade Salem. If the return and money saving is worth it . Otherwise tell him he needs to do a lot of work berfore and during pre-season because at this stage he's not best 22. 

Oh yeah, Disco Turner and his 7 possessions a game is really going to be the answer to replacing Salem who was All Australian worthy last year, our best player to quarter time in the grand final and our calmest ball user down back.

Don’t get me wrong, Turner’s a player, we might have to try 4 talls next year to give him more time. But speed, skill and run and carry are still the biggest priority. Salem played like a guy who had a seriousness injury then got groin soreness due to overuse after a long lay off. Every indication is he should bounce back next year.

[jnrmac 20,189]

2 hours ago, deespicable me said:

I would have thought it re-inforces my theory.  What are we doing playing an injured bloke for half a year? Same with Salem. If they're injured don't play them and make new plans. Catering to injured players isn't a successful game plan. How can you put that up as an excuse?

 You made a bold assertion that is simply not true. 

 

Go back to your Tarot cards and make up more stuff

[Whispering_Jack 30,674]

2 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Oh yeah, Disco Turner and his 7 possessions a game is really going to be the answer to replacing Salem who was All Australian worthy last year, our best player to quarter time in the grand final and our calmest ball user down back.

Don’t get me wrong, Turner’s a player, we might have to try 4 talls next year to give him more time. But speed, skill and run and carry are still the biggest priority. Salem played like a guy who had a seriousness injury then got groin soreness due to overuse after a long lay off. Every indication is he should bounce back next year.

I don’t think in those conditions, the number of possessions is necessarily the arbiter of how the younger players, particularly the talls, performed in those conditions. In the cases of both Turner and JVR, there were plenty of instances of them doing the 1 per centers like tackling, shepherding, punching the ball and tapping it away from opponents, second efforts, a lot of which didn’t appear on the stats sheets. JVR in particular, showed how much of a monster he’s going to be when he fully matures. Can’t wait.

[deespicable me 1,498]

3 hours ago, jnrmac said:

 You made a bold assertion that is simply not true. 

 

Go back to your Tarot cards and make up more stuff

A little rude Jnrmac, but maybe thats your style. Shoot 'em down, get personal. No worries.

[deespicable me 1,498]

3 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Oh yeah, Disco Turner and his 7 possessions a game is really going to be the answer to replacing Salem who was All Australian worthy last year, our best player to quarter time in the grand final and our calmest ball user down back.

Don’t get me wrong, Turner’s a player, we might have to try 4 talls next year to give him more time. But speed, skill and run and carry are still the biggest priority. Salem played like a guy who had a seriousness injury then got groin soreness due to overuse after a long lay off. Every indication is he should bounce back next year.

I hope he does bounce back. For mine though he has been mostly disappointing since his return to the side. We certainly lost more games than won with him playing and he kept Bowie out of the side.  "every indication". Not so sure. I am worried about his hunger for the contest. I don't think it was where it should be.

I am of the belief if we don't orchestrate change it's a quick slide back down to mediocrity. 

I am also of the view that we are being dangerously lazy thinking we will be back up the top with a couple of tinkers. Adding Grundy for instance. It's a brutal competition and there are signs we are reasonably happy with ourselves. On present form we are over-rated and ended as high as we did on early season form that was a couple of levels below Finals footy. If we keep thinking this way we are in for a rude shock. The team, the whole footy department needs change, fresh players and thinking.

[DeeSpencer 26,083]

49 minutes ago, deespicable me said:

I hope he does bounce back. For mine though he has been mostly disappointing since his return to the side. We certainly lost more games than won with him playing and he kept Bowie out of the side.  "every indication". Not so sure. I am worried about his hunger for the contest. I don't think it was where it should be.

Salem has been a consistently good player since 2017 and slowly got better and better up until last year.

The idea that he was awful this year isn’t really true. I thought he got sharper as the year went on and whilst lacking a little run he was fine towards the end of the home and away season. 

He then played finals like an underdone player who has missed a chunk of training, had sore groins and couldn’t handle the intensity. Shouldn’t have played the second final.

If he’s looking fit when they come back from preseason then I don’t see the need for doom and gloom. 

Edited September 20, 2022 by DeeSpencer

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

9 hours ago, deespicable me said:

Weidemann. Has done everything asked of him, has had a player who he can naturally replace,  (admittedly as a slight downgrade) a player leaving, and in the last third of the VFL season has finally excelled in a position. He has obviously taken longer to develop to the point where many think he won't make it but give him the position, tell him he's considered top 22 and tell the Pies to get stuffed.

Just a further point on why we are chasing Grundy. We are being soft on Max. It's the wrong call because Max wants an easier life. Max has been and will always be, a champion for Melbourne FC and also the AFL but he liked the idea of easing Jacko into the role and he would go forward. This hasn't worked this year. It did last year. And more importantly getting Grundy reinforces a game plan that has been trashed this year. Kicking down the line. Stagnant movement. it's old, Goodwin needs a new game plan not bring in a bloke that re-inforces an old one that isn't working.

Dont know about being soft on Max but agree on the rest.  We're barking up the wrong tree with Grundy and the Weid has shown that he's a worthy (minor ruck relief role) option.

Grundy my moth chewed undies!!  Could someone pls throw a bucket load of Gatoraid over Simon.  Someone from the filth has obviously attempted to hypnotise him into taking taking the bait!

Edited September 20, 2022 by Demon Dynasty

[Turner 1,516]

3 hours ago, Whispering_Jack said:

I don’t think in those conditions, the number of possessions is necessarily the arbiter of how the younger players, particularly the talls, performed in those conditions. In the cases of both Turner and JVR, there were plenty of instances of them doing the 1 per centers like tackling, shepherding, punching the ball and tapping it away from opponents, second efforts, a lot of which didn’t appear on the stats sheets. JVR in particular, showed how much of a monster he’s going to be when he fully matures. Can’t wait.

i think the point @DeeSpencerwas trying to point out was the ridiculousness of suggesting turner as a suitable replacement for salem given the outrageously different natures of their games. and he makes some good points about playing 4 talls. look at richmond with balta/miller tarrant/gibcus grimes and broad and vlastuin. thats a fairly large backline and it gets thr job done

[DeeSpencer 26,083]

1 hour ago, Turner said:

i think the point @DeeSpencerwas trying to point out was the ridiculousness of suggesting turner as a suitable replacement for salem given the outrageously different natures of their games. and he makes some good points about playing 4 talls. look at richmond with balta/miller tarrant/gibcus grimes and broad and vlastuin. thats a fairly large backline and it gets thr job done

Correct.

Geelong also role out De Koning, Henry, Kolo, Stewart. In their case they rely on Stewart and Duncan for rebound as well as being happy moving the ball methodically from the back half.

May could take up a more offensive role. And whilst he won't ever kick it like Stewart at his best Jake Lever provides drive too. Petty and Turner have a lot of untapped offensive potential. It wouldn't be my plan A but it would be something I'd consider.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

15 hours ago, deespicable me said:

Surely it's a big mistake to think kicking down the line to Max and Grundy  and Ben Brown and TMac is worth pursuing as a game plan. We should be evolving, getting youth and energy back into the side, and working on fine tuning chaos ball as that is the way now. 

Not according to the FD & Coach DM.

Youth, Energy & SPEED on the ball and at ground level.  Speed on transition lacking this season and other teams really benefited from this and our regular down the line default play.  Whixh is why we'd be mad not to resign the likes of Bedford IMV, even for one or two seasons.

The team we saw in the second half of 2022 was ploddy and also poor with execution under pressure.  Way too many turnovers and part of that problem was....we got caught and we got caught alot.  Players like Viney," Salem, JJ & ANB are great at clocking up possessions but offered us very little leg speed and were often caught HTB (= turnovers) on the attempted spread.  Also noticed players drove out of congestion with their legs alot less vs 2021.  I would be looking at the fitness / sports science team here.  What happened to that aspect in one season?  Why did it drop off so significantly with so many?

LJ also dropped off a cliff with contested marking here for reasons obvious.   I reckon SG is also hoping Grundy will bring us back to something resembling 2021 levels here with Grundy.

He wouldn't be the first premiership coach to try and replicate a premiership year 'style of play' and there's no harm with this if other teams haven't progressed, worked out how to combat it and improved their own methods/style and lists. 

Problem with that is the top clubs rarely stand still and we've seen at least three clubs move alongside or past us this season.

I just hope SG isn't living in 2021 fairy land and also sees it something like this and awakes from his 2022 2nd half slumber.

Edited September 20, 2022 by Demon Dynasty

[jnrmac 20,189]

18 hours ago, deespicable me said:

A little rude Jnrmac, but maybe thats your style. Shoot 'em down, get personal. No worries.

Fair enough. Sorry about being rude. 

 

But you did make a bold assertion that was untrue.

[Monbon 1,840]

On 9/20/2022 at 12:03 PM, willmoy said:

In conjunction with that Brownie, and i agree, we could find that should he be tossed into all preseason games next year in that role we might just have what we want. He is going to build up a little more, more ks in the legs, more peripheral awareness. The big fella from SP was stuffed. Weideman was still going. Best performance of the year in my book in a position that were we to lose in, with his opponent able to palm, we would have lost that game.

Given that 'The big Fella from SP' was carrying a belly or two extra to requirements - like  a lot of us, no doubt. Not to detract from The Weid.

[Guest]

 

[Ugottobekidding 1,194]

On 9/20/2022 at 10:44 PM, DeeSpencer said:

Salem has been a consistently good player since 2017 and slowly got better and better up until last year.

The idea that he was awful this year isn’t really true. I thought he got sharper as the year went on and whilst lacking a little run he was fine towards the end of the home and away season. 

He then played finals like an underdone player who has missed a chunk of training, had sore groins and couldn’t handle the intensity. Shouldn’t have played the second final.

If he’s looking fit when they come back from preseason then I don’t see the need for doom and gloom. 

Salem spent much of the first half injured. Was never going be the same as previous years. With a good preseason will be back as one of our most important players. Seriously, we'd be bottom of the ladder if some of the bigheads on this forum were managing our list.