20 minutes ago, The heart beats true said:

SWYL - I’ve never heard the term ‘Cloud Fairies’ before. Sounds like a brilliant band. Thanks, you made me laugh.

As for religions I can only speak on behalf of my experiences at Catholic school. My parish priest as a child was Gerald Ridsdale, my Year 8 coordinator was Robert Best. That’s number 1 and 2 in the most convicted sexual child abusers in the state. The church continues to pay their legal fees even though they’ve both been in jail for 25 years. I know victims, and as a teenager I was groomed by another Brother I’ve reported multiple times to the taskforce (and never had any reply).

Everyone is entitled to their beliefs, but they can’t simply turn away from the truth of the pain that their organisations have created. That’s likes only following your team when they win the flag.

I only have 1 religion now. The Demons. Weirdly it doesn’t stop me praying to someone I dont think exists for a key position forward. 

 

❤️

30 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

I get that. And I agree wholeheartedly. My point is you should err on the side of super-sensitive in regards to the folks who are on the shi*tty end of the debate, even if they do generalise, which of course is not at all the right thing to do. But it’s understandable and sometimes even forgivable given where they’re coming from. An example: you share your reasons for believing that religion can and has effected great outcomes. Then I tell you that I can’t see it that way due to  having lost four family members (two by their own hand) as a direct result of their religious beliefs. Don’t you see that one of us really should exercise a little more sensitivity than the other?

This isn’t about who’s right and who’s wrong. It’s about empathy and acceptance of human frailties. 

Absolutely, which is why I've stated that I know my experience isn't everyone's experience. I've not doubted or put down anyone else's experience, and my own is mixed. But the value of people who have sacrificed their entire lives to do good is not worth any less than the lives of those who we've lost due to the horrendous experiences they've had. My parents spent 50 years of their lives helping others in the name of their religion and put themselves last that whole time - why should they be put down and insulted due to someone's experience of other people? Sorry, that's just not right.

11 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Absolutely, which is why I've stated that I know my experience isn't everyone's experience. I've not doubted or put down anyone else's experience, and my own is mixed. But the value of people who have sacrificed their entire lives to do good is not worth any less than the lives of those who we've lost due to the horrendous experiences they've had. My parents spent 50 years of their lives helping others in the name of their religion and put themselves last that whole time - why should they be put down and insulted due to someone's experience of other people? Sorry, that's just not right.

No one’s putting your parents down, Nev. And nor should they. But I agree with @Sir Why You Little when he says it’s not the folks such as your parents at whom any anger is directed. It’s the institutions that capitalise on people’s frailties. And that’s undeniable. 

Just now, WalkingCivilWar said:

No one’s putting your parents down, Nev. And nor should they. But I agree with @Sir Why You Little when he says it’s not the folks such as your parents at whom any anger is directed. It’s the institutions that capitalise on people’s frailties. And that’s undeniable. 

Those institutions are made up of people.

2 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Those institutions are made up of people.

…who blindly and unwaveringly serve said institutions. Institutions that make a tonne of money.
This is an undeniable fact. CHURCHES AMASS A DISPROPORTIONATELY LARGE AMOUNT OF MONEY. 

Anyways this thread has become an emotional minefield. I’m amazed Andy has let this thread continue on in this fashion for this long. Ima cut and run while the going’s good. 

11 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

…who blindly and unwaveringly serve said institutions.

This is a rubbish comment and just another generalisation mate.

In the interest of getting this thread back on track, ima ignore LN’s post (above) and remind him that I’ve cut and run. Perfect timing, too. That post of his is the landmine that wouldn’t render me an amputee. Rather, I’d be blown to a bazillion pieces strewn across the sad landscape that is planet earth. 

So, what’s next for Adem Yze? Hopefully another flag as Goody’s assistant. Short of that, I’d be so happy for him to land a *senior coaching job since this is clearly his desire, and because I reckon he’d make a great coach. And because a series of rejections is not psychologically good for anyone. 

*for ANY team bar Essendon. For should he ever leave us for Essendon (in any capacity) he would thenceforth be dead to me.  😁

38 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

…who blindly and unwaveringly serve said institutions. Institutions that make a tonne of money.
This is an undeniable fact. CHURCHES AMASS A DISPROPORTIONATELY LARGE AMOUNT OF MONEY. 

Anyways this thread has become an emotional minefield. I’m amazed Andy has let this thread continue on in this fashion for this long. Ima cut and run while the going’s good. 

the rich get richer and the poor get poorer and its called religion

forever demons, are you just trying to reignite a fire that was going out, or are you really so messed up that you have to get the final boots in, on this subject?  You can be quite sure that if there was a Jesus looking on, he would not be barracking for the perps. Of course he wouldn't.  Charlatans put up their brass plate at the door - it does not reflect on the medical profession.  They are just fakes.  We know it.  

Some people need to have their eyes opened probably - yes.  But this is not the place, I don't think these are the people.  No public service is being done by venting on this forum.  Let's all agree, and walk away.

50 minutes ago, robbiefrom13 said:

forever demons, are you just trying to reignite a fire that was going out, or are you really so messed up that you have to get the final boots in, on this subject?  You can be quite sure that if there was a Jesus looking on, he would not be barracking for the perps. Of course he wouldn't.  Charlatans put up their brass plate at the door - it does not reflect on the medical profession.  They are just fakes.  We know it.  

Some people need to have their eyes opened probably - yes.  But this is not the place, I don't think these are the people.  No public service is being done by venting on this forum.  Let's all agree, and walk away.

shut your gate sunshine,you dont even know me

4 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

Those institutions are made up of people.

Who don’t ask enough questions of the people above them, all because of the Stories in a Book 

7 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Who don’t ask enough questions of the people above them, all because of the Stories in a Book 

We've ventured a long way off the track - but I'll just say I'm absolutely with you that those who abuse their position of authority and power in religious organisations should be held accountable every time, which obviously does not happen. I would even say that given the nature of their positions and the additional trust, place in society and financial advantages they can have that punishments in such cases should be more harsh to reflect that.

I understand our experiences have been very different, but my experience has been quiet different to yours in terms of people in religious organisations holding leadership to account and being transparent about their operations. I've also personally known many at the 'top of the tree' in organisations like this who have been thoroughly good, ethical and selfless people.

I won't go on any more though so hopefully we can get back on topic.

On 10/4/2022 at 10:01 PM, Lord Nev said:

I grew up in the church, including time as a youth social worker with one. Both my parents spent their lives in social work through a religious organisation - they don't even own a house.

I wager I know more about it than you and you're just further highlighting your ignorance.

 

Can you name a religion or denomination that is not asset rich?

By and large, riches built on the back of taking money from the masses and tax breaks. The catholic church, for example is the richest ngo in the world, yet I'd bet that the large majority of its followers are either poor or far from affluent

If I am correct, SWYL is referring (yes, in a generalised way) to the church being rich, as in the religious organisation. Not the individual participants in it

One upmanship of religious experience does not make you any more right in this matter. It only highlights arrogance

4 minutes ago, Stiff Arm said:

 

By and large, riches built on the back of taking money from the masses and tax breaks.

sounds like an afl football club - lol

10 minutes ago, Stiff Arm said:

Can you name a religion or denomination that is not asset rich?

By and large, riches built on the back of taking money from the masses and tax breaks. The catholic church, for example is the richest ngo in the world, yet I'd bet that the large majority of its followers are either poor or far from affluent

If I am correct, SWYL is referring (yes, in a generalised way) to the church being rich, as in the religious organisation. Not the individual participants in it

One upmanship of religious experience does not make you any more right in this matter. It only highlights arrogance

I've said my piece and I'm sure others are as keen as I am to get back on topic.

Cheers.

You’d have to think that the club would have some thing in their contracts with coaches that outlines when they can’t accept a new job.

Anyone know how a coaches contract works? I’m all for giving people opportunities, but not 2 weeks out from a season.

12 minutes ago, The heart beats true said:

You’d have to think that the club would have some thing in their contracts with coaches that outlines when they can’t accept a new job.

Anyone know how a coaches contract works? I’m all for giving people opportunities, but not 2 weeks out from a season.

Not sure on timings, but I know assistant coaches can break contract if their new job is a promotion.

Goody to Ooze: "Glad you stayed. See what you might've been up to your armpits in?!"

The Essendon/Thorburn situation is nothing to do with religion, so not sure why the thread lurched off in that direction. You can't have someone at the head of an organisation that espouses tolerance, inclusiveness and diversity who's also head of an organisation that at least in terms of homosexuality and women (rights, abortion etc.) is the opposite of all that.

"City on a Hill holds and promotes some beliefs that are, these days, not mainstream. They include that abortion is murder and homosexuality is a sin.

Essendon, by contrast, is (according to a statement by its own chair, Dave Barham) “committed to providing an inclusive, diverse and a safe club, where everyone is welcome and respected”.

The point is that he sought simultaneously to be the public spokesperson for two sets of values that are directly opposed and cannot be reconciled."

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/oct/05/andrew-thorburn-had-to-choose-between-essendon-and-his-church-their-values-cannot-be-reconciled

Edited October 6, 20222 yr by bing181

Back on topic, I'm sure that Yze is gutted. You don't get as far as he did in the process without an enormous investment, including emotional investment, so I imagine he'd be pretty knocked around by all of this.

Adem Yze would be gutted his last interview alone went for three hours putting his ideas experiences leadership skills and footy knowledge on the line only to have the rug pulled out under his feet at the 11th hour by the Gm Football at the AFL Brad bloody Scott. That would be enough to leave you bruised contused and Bitterly Disappointed but Adem is tough, resilient and well loved and supported By the MFC, Family and Friendsgood luck Adem now back to earth and how are we going to win our 2nd Granny in 58 years.!!!

Edited October 6, 20222 yr by DeeZone
Spelling

7 hours ago, forever demons said:

shut your gate sunshine,you dont even know me

Wowee

4 hours ago, Stiff Arm said:

Can you name a religion or denomination that is not asset rich?

No

I think it's against their religion 🤔 

4 hours ago, Stiff Arm said:

Can you name a religion or denomination that is not asset rich?

By and large, riches built on the back of taking money from the masses and tax breaks. The catholic church, for example is the richest ngo in the world, yet I'd bet that the large majority of its followers are either poor or far from affluent

If I am correct, SWYL is referring (yes, in a generalised way) to the church being rich, as in the religious organisation. Not the individual participants in it

One upmanship of religious experience does not make you any more right in this matter. It only highlights arrogance

 

4 hours ago, Stiff Arm said:

Goody to Ooze: "Glad you stayed. See what you might've been up to your armpits in?!"

Throw in "I've been there mate, it's not the shot in the arm you were expecting for your career"