CHANGES: Rd 21 vs Collingwood

[Sydee 4,379]

9 minutes ago, binman said:

 

A couple of questions come to mind:

If bb comes in, Melksham stays in, and weed goes out, who would go out for jvr if he is selected?

Can bb, Melksham, Fritter AND JVR all fit into our forward line?

I doubt it particularly as it looks like it could be wet - the one thing that is worth considering is that JVR's best game this year (IMO) was against Geelong at the kitty box on a very wet day - not suggesting he is like a wet track racehorse but he was particularly good that day

 

[BigFez 1,440]

Will N. Daicos be minded by Melksham or Harmes?  The games I've watched they go to him every chance they get because he is such a good user and decision maker.  He gets lots of cheap possessions through handball receives while his opponent is in the defensive zone, but he probably should be shown some respect since he sets them up quite well.

Hibberd to Ginnivan?  Or Elliot?

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,762]

In  - BBB

Out - Weid, Chandler

Sub - Harmes

I don't think Harmes has particularly been shooting the lights out since his mid season hammy (he was kicking a goal or two a week to start the season) but also acknowledge he brings versatility to the side.

 

 

[MrFreeze 1,951]

1 hour ago, Nasher said:

In: Brown, Harmes

Out: Weideman, Sparrow

Demonland will hate this but Sparrow's game on the weekend wasn't particularly exceptional.

Sparrow vs Freo: 17 touches, 5 tackles, 6 turnovers, 3 score involvements, no goal assists and 19 pressure acts. 

Quite similar to Harmes' game against Port: 17 touches, 8 tackles, 4 turnovers, 1 score involvement, 26 pressure acts 

Edited August 4, 2022 by MrFreeze

[Dee Zephyr 19,267]

I know there's a couple of posters that simply do not rate Harmes and are on record as saying so. I'm surprised there aren't more posters calling for his inclusion this week. The club rate him highly, only have to listen to some of his teammates speak about him and his two-way running. My guess is Melksham will be the unlucky one to make way for Harmes.

[MrFreeze 1,951]

31 minutes ago, binman said:

In response to a comment from MrFreeze that JVR could play Melk's defensive forward role, i just posted this in the training thread, but it probably fits here better:

That's exactly what I thought.

It would be the perfect role for him at this stage in career as his focus would be on sticking with an opposition interceptor (Moore?) and making sure they don't mark anything coming into our 50.

Which given his desire to compete he would relish. 

Anything else would be a bonus.

But to be honest melksham has done well enough in that role to keep his spot. And is obviously more experienced and probably physically stronger too.

A couple of questions come to mind:

If bb comes in, Melksham stays in, and weed goes out, who would go out for jvr if he is selected?

Can bb, Melksham, Fritter AND JVR all fit into our forward line?

I don't think Melk and JVR can fit as we use our last spot forward for a resting mid. I could see the following set up. 

Murphy Moore Howe - Fritsch Brown Resting midfielder  

Daicos Maynard Noble - ANB/Spargo JVR Pickett 

[Dr. Gonzo 24,162]

17 minutes ago, Dee Zephyr said:

I know there's a couple of posters that simply do not rate Harmes and are on record as saying so. I'm surprised there aren't more posters calling for his inclusion this week. The club rate him highly, only have to listen to some of his teammates speak about him and his two-way running. My guess is Melksham will be the unlucky one to make way for Harmes.

I agree Harmes was poor against the Dogs but it turns out he was concussed most of that game! Problem is the form of the other mid/forwards any of them would be stiff to be dropped.

[Sydee 4,379]

29 minutes ago, MrFreeze said:

Demonland will hate this but Sparrow's game on the weekend wasn't particularly exceptional.

Sparrow vs Freo: 17 touches, 5 tackles, 6 turnovers, 3 score involvements, no goal assists and 19 pressure acts. 

Quite similar to Harmes' game against Port: 17 touches, 8 tackles, 4 turnovers, 1 score involvement, 26 pressure acts 

You missed TOG% of 64 which was the lowest of any Demon player 

Can't do much on the bench 

He is safe as houses 

[MrFreeze 1,951]

4 minutes ago, Sydee said:

You missed TOG% of 64 which was the lowest of any Demon player 

Can't do much on the bench 

He is safe as houses 

Harmes TOG against port was 69% 

Again, very very similar 

[Sydee 4,379]

5 minutes ago, MrFreeze said:

Harmes TOG against port was 69% 

Again, very very similar 

Yep and Harmes led our tackle count that day despite him only being on the field for that time

If you consider the tackle stats and pressure acts these are the guys that play the Melbourne way 

That is why he will be considered for selection this week even though we had a good team performance last week

[binman 42,629]

1 hour ago, mo64 said:

That's all well and good, but if you are fumbling, not winning the ball, and not a forward threat, then the coaching dept will make a call as to whether his defensive work outweighs his lack of offense.

Agree.

So you'd agree that if picked this week (which hw 100% will be) the answer is, yes, his defensive work is his kpi, ie ot 'outweighs his lack of offence'?

By the by, on tbat point our defence drives our offence, ipso facto nibblers brilliant defensive work and incredible,  often unrewarded, gut running up and down the ground makes an important contribution to our offence.

[binman 42,629]

56 minutes ago, BigFez said:

Will N. Daicos be minded by Melksham or Harmes?  The games I've watched they go to him every chance they get because he is such a good user and decision maker.  He gets lots of cheap possessions through handball receives while his opponent is in the defensive zone, but he probably should be shown some respect since he sets them up quite well.

Hibberd to Ginnivan?  Or Elliot?

Maybe hunt or rivers to daicos?

Hibberd to Elliot.

I don't like rivers or hunt on ginnivan, so not sure who gets him - though hunt might have to.

Our half forwards and mids who push up will be important in stopping ginnivan winning ground balls inside 50.

 

[DubDee 25,590]

I reckon Hibberd to Ginnivan and he will give him a bath

[BigFez 1,440]

10 minutes ago, binman said:

Maybe hunt or rivers to daicos?

Hibberd to Elliot.

I don't like rivers or hunt on ginnivan, so not sure who gets him - though hunt might have to.

Our half forwards and mids who push up will be important in stopping ginnivan winning ground balls inside 50.

 

Would Goody be willing to play one of those guys forward?  Have we employed Spargo or ANB as a tagging forward before?  Looking forward to seeing how we line up.

Prior to his injury Hunt had been having success on the crafty small forward.  He do a job on Bolton from Richmond among others, wouldn't be totally surprised if he went to Ginnivan.

[Abyssal 465]

2 hours ago, Deenooos_ said:

You’re kidding, no way ANB gets dropped. He is the best inside 50 tackler/pressurer and a good leader. His unrewarded running is also up there with only the like of Langers

ANB

In my view he should be doing a lot more than tackling and “pressure acts”.

Re. “Pressure Acts” , I was surprised to see ( recently ) that “CORRALLING” gains a player 1.2 points in the PA stats. That’s an easy way for players to build up cheap stats !  
To me, corralling usually means a player has been beaten to the ball by an opponent and rather than apply direct pressure would opt to take the easy way out.

 

[binman 42,629]

5 minutes ago, BigFez said:

Would Goody be willing to play one of those guys forward?  Have we employed Spargo or ANB as a tagging forward before?  Looking forward to seeing how we line up.

Prior to his injury Hunt had been having success on the crafty small forward.  He do a job on Bolton from Richmond among others, wouldn't be totally surprised if he went to Ginnivan.

I don't think the first scenario will happen.

I prefer Hunt  with more freedom to run and carry, but you're right, he did some shut down roles, so he could go to ginnivan

[Dr. Gonzo 24,162]

24 minutes ago, binman said:

Maybe hunt or rivers to daicos?

Hibberd to Elliot.

I don't like rivers or hunt on ginnivan, so not sure who gets him - though hunt might have to.

Our half forwards and mids who push up will be important in stopping ginnivan winning ground balls inside 50.

 

Who else do they have up forward? Mihocek if he comes in probably gets May or Lever the other one probably gets Ginnivan. Petty gets the resting ruck (Cameron or Cox)?

[BigFez 1,440]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Who else do they have up forward? Mihocek if he comes in probably gets May or Lever the other one probably gets Ginnivan. Petty gets the resting ruck (Cameron or Cox)?

May would get Mihocek, not sure if Lever is the right matchup on Ginnivan.  Problem with Lever's matchup is that all of their forwards can be dangerous, even the mid year recruit Johnson has shown he can kick goals.  Elliot, Ginnivan, Hoskin-Elliot, Johnson, Mihocek, De Goey when he's down there, Carmichael when he's not in the sub vest.  With so many forward options they could play through Lever's man if he zones off.  I reckon Pig goes to De Goey when he's forward, and Hunt will get Ginnivan.  Lever could go to Johnson and as you say Petty to Cameron/Cox. 

[layzie 33,748]

There is no chance in hell we drop Nibbler. 

[Dr. Gonzo 24,162]

12 minutes ago, BigFez said:

May would get Mihocek, not sure if Lever is the right matchup on Ginnivan.  Problem with Lever's matchup is that all of their forwards can be dangerous, even the mid year recruit Johnson has shown he can kick goals.  Elliot, Ginnivan, Hoskin-Elliot, Johnson, Mihocek, De Goey when he's down there, Carmichael when he's not in the sub vest.  With so many forward options they could play through Lever's man if he zones off.  I reckon Pig goes to De Goey when he's forward, and Hunt will get Ginnivan.  Lever could go to Johnson and as you say Petty to Cameron/Cox. 

Who gets Elliott? He is probably the most dangerous one of the lot.

[640MD 3,355]

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I agree Harmes was poor against the Dogs but it turns out he was concussed most of that game! Problem is the form of the other mid/forwards any of them would be stiff to be dropped.

I see Harmes as a barometer of our game.

if he plays well the Dees invariably do well also.  
If he is slightly off in his positioning or getting of handballs then we break down 

similar in the way that Glenn Lovett impacted the results when he played well or had a good day. We more often won that day.

different players obviously 

get the job done this week take no prisoners type game please

[Spargonicus 539]

59 minutes ago, DubDee said:

I reckon Hibberd to Ginnivan and he will give him a bath

and then he'll have to drink Hibbo's bathwater?

[BigFez 1,440]

17 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Who gets Elliott? He is probably the most dangerous one of the lot.

Rivers?

[Hatchman 539]

4 hours ago, Neil Crompton said:

Are you referring to the marriage or the premiership?

Ha! I really should have re read that post 🤣

 

But it was the premiership! 

[DeeSpencer 25,444]

If Gus stays on ball it’s a toss up between Harmes and Sparrow. ANB and Melk are doing their roles and I can’t see them being moved from them.

If Gus goes back it’s a toss up between Hunt and Rivers.

Goody rarely changes winning combinations, which makes me think Gus stays on ball. Gus also fills in as the third winger which takes that role away from Harmes.

Harmes: Versatility, speed, experience, perhaps a slight edge in forward craft (marking, crumbing)

Sparrow: Healthy, defensive motor, built like a brick, makes things happen with his power out of contests