26 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

I have mixed feelings about it all. A contract should be a contract, but I think we've seen both players and clubs try to break them to move on, and IMO the players still have the bigger share of power in player movement - literally declaring a specific club they must be traded to.

Clubs like Collingwood will surely have a poor reputation now in terms of handling player contracts, whereas the Dees seem to be no fuss and genuinely try to do the best thing - The TMac and ANB examples stand out to me, plus it feels like the way they've handled Tomlinson this year is similar to that. Then there's the class with which the club has handled the Jackson situation. Combine that with our apparently Oscar worthy PowerPoints and we do seem to genuinely be a 'destination club' in a manner of speaking.

But despite all that players still want to go to the Pies and other clubs like them.

5 minutes ago, Redleg said:

But despite all that players still want to go to the Pies and other clubs like them.

Maybe. McStay is going there for more money than anyone else would pay him. Who else is coming to them? I haven't really kept close track tbh.

Treloar gone, Grundy gone, Henry possibly gone. They'll always have some kind of pull given they're a huge club, but reckon they've been dented in all this now.

Edit - Bobby Hill is going there too yeah? Be interested to see his rumoured contract as well.

Edited October 1, 20222 yr by Lord Nev

53 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Yes that makes sense. He signs a 7 year deal because they love him and really want and need him. 2 years later after doing the same to a team mate, they tell him he can take a large pay cut, or is free to look around, as they need to adjust their salary cap. He now feels he has been lied to and gets angry with them. He sees the writing on the wall and meets the Dees and is impressed. He tells the Pies I am disappointed with you, but will leave, but go only to the Dees, if you can do a deal with them and I get my full contract pay, otherwise I stay.

That is how I see the scenario playing out.

That is exactly how I see the scenario and our role has to be that ‘you have created a scenario at your club where you have a wage you want to reduce and are at an impasse other than for that player to be traded to us - here is a pick in the 20s and a commitment to pay $650k. Take it or leave all your October plans as just that’

4 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Maybe. McStay is going there for more money than anyone else would pay him. Who else is coming to them? I haven't really kept close track tbh.

Treloar gone, Grundy gone, Henry possibly gone. They'll always have some kind of pull given they're a huge club, but reckon they've been dented in all this now.

Edit - Bobby Hill is going there too yeah? Be interested to see his rumoured contract as well.

And maybe Tom Mitchell and a couple of others I forget atm.

I don't care if Collingwood put all their stupid chips to the middle of the table, I do care about not being bent over. Our play for Grundy shouldn't factor in any other peanuts they might or might not be getting, that's their problem.

I'm also about to go to the dentist hence the bad mood.

Edited October 1, 20222 yr by layzie

Just now, Redleg said:

And maybe Tom Mitchell and a couple of others I forget atm.

On the flipside, Collingwood will lose Henry to Cats

8 minutes ago, rpfc said:

That is exactly how I see the scenario and our role has to be that ‘you have created a scenario at your club where you have a wage you want to reduce and are at an impasse other than for that player to be traded to us - here is a pick in the 20s and a commitment to pay $650k. Take it or leave all your October plans as just that’

Nice one.  get on the phone to Pert and pass that message on.  

Its a buyers market when it comes to grundy and the Pies are Sellers. No love in commercial negotiations.

The best bit so far is that the club  (Goody and Gawn and some others?) met with Grundy and he walked out with Dees as the destination - Dees a destination club then in my book.

. He also understands he is in an absolute strong position bargaining-wise with the Pies and I suspect he will use that strength also.

This will be the story in the media next week.

 

 

Edited October 1, 20222 yr by Demon17
spelling mistakes

1 minute ago, Stiff Arm said:

On the flipside, Collingwood will lose Henry to Cats

And the Cats get stronger with the Rohan replacement.

4 hours ago, Grouse said:

So considering pies are asking for a first round pick, we will have to split our Jackson first round pick to get Grundy. I for the life of me can't see any good in going after Grundy. It weakens our draft hand and ties us to an expensive 29yo on a long contract. An utterly bizarre pick up unless goodwin thinks if we continue to bomb down the line to gawn resting forward, it will be more effective that when we did that this year with Jackson rucking. It doesn't work and won't work again. 

Seem to work pretty well in 2021 and allowed us to get 2nd this year, so I would say your comment that it doesn’t work is completely wrong 

They’re using Grundy’s money to get McStay for free. We really should just get Grundy for free. Pretty simple formula.

They’re paying his wage down to his true worth, and even then it’s a year too long on the deal. They don’t get extra credit for that, they aren’t subsidising him below his market rate. No one would give Grundy 5 years by choice right now.

North fans and the media expected Ben Brown to be a first round pick and he wasn’t. This is the same situation. 

Injured, club wants him out, there’s really no leverage for the Pies. They can have a million dollar ruckman in the reserves or they can cop a second round pick. 

9 minutes ago, Redleg said:

And maybe Tom Mitchell and a couple of others I forget atm.

Think it was reported yesterday Mitchell is staying at the Hawks.

8 minutes ago, Redleg said:

And the Cats get stronger with the Rohan replacement.

Rohan’s a far better player than Henry right now because Rohan’s a defensive tackling force and Henry stands and watches like Fritsch. The Pies we’re trying to educate him at VFL level rather than entrench poor behaviour. But the scary thing is Henry will swap in for Rohan after some Geelong education and provide goal kicking when they finally replace Hawkins with a young full forward. Although they’ll probably replace Hawkins with Harry McKay and not miss a beat! 

Edited October 1, 20222 yr by DeeSpencer

15 minutes ago, rpfc said:

here is a pick in the 20s and a commitment to pay $650k. Take it or leave all your October plans as just that’

 

3 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Injured, club wants him out, there’s really no leverage for the Pies. They can have a million dollar ruckman in the reserves or they can cop a second round pick. 

Just not how we operate though. We don't huff and puff, we just get things done quickly and fairly.

All this 'hardball' commentary completely ignores how we actually do business.

Some want to pay nothing for Grundy, some pick 30 or worse, others are accepting  we may have to use a late first round pick.

The deal will get done, both clubs will say they are happy and Grundy will say he is happy to be with us, as we wanted him and we are very professional.

DL will continue discussing whether it was a good/bad deal and whether we should have got him in the first place.

 A new issue will eventually take over on DL and the sun will rise tomorrow.

12 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

 

They’re paying his wage down to his true worth, and even then it’s a year too long on the deal. They don’t get extra credit for that, they aren’t subsidising him below his market rate. No one would give Grundy 5 years by choice right now.

North fans and the media expected Ben Brown to be a first round pick and he wasn’t. This is the same situation. 

This is a point I think is being over looked. It’s a bad contract in terms of cost but also because of its length. IF the pies pay $300k-$350k then that probably means we are paying him correct market value or there abouts. But if he wasn’t already locked in for 5 years then I can’t see us offer him a contract that long. 
Considering he’s just coming of a couple of injuries we are taking a gamble offering 5 years. That needs to be reflected in the trade value. 

Edited October 1, 20222 yr by Colm

11 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

 

Just not how we operate though. We don't huff and puff, we just get things done quickly and fairly.

All this 'hardball' commentary completely ignores how we actually do business.

It’s not a matter of hardball it’s a matter of what’s fair considering the circumstances. It wasn’t hardball with Ben Brown, we didn’t try to talk up his busted knees and offer a 3rd, we gave up a reasonable 2nd.

If there’s huffing and puffing it should be from Collingwood trying to appease their members, some of whom are still thinking they’re giving up prime Polly Farmer.

A fair expectation on what Grundy will give us is 3-4 years of solid ruck play. Not game changing stuff like he did in ‘19. And not 8 years of it like you’d get from a 24 year old. How’s that worth a first round pick?

10 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

It’s not a matter of hardball it’s a matter of what’s fair considering the circumstances. It wasn’t hardball with Ben Brown, we didn’t try to talk up his busted knees and offer a 3rd, we gave up a reasonable 2nd.

If there’s huffing and puffing it should be from Collingwood trying to appease their members, some of whom are still thinking they’re giving up prime Polly Farmer.

A fair expectation on what Grundy will give us is 3-4 years of solid ruck play. Not game changing stuff like he did in ‘19. And not 8 years of it like you’d get from a 24 year old. How’s that worth a first round pick?

I guess we'll see. IMO I reckon we'll end up giving up a pick around 15-20, or Freo's future 1st - possibly with some later pick swaps in the late 2nd/3rd round.

1 hour ago, Redleg said:

And maybe Tom Mitchell and a couple of others I forget atm.

Billy Frampton and Fiorini as well perhaps

1 hour ago, Lord Nev said:

 

Just not how we operate though. We don't huff and puff, we just get things done quickly and fairly.

All this 'hardball' commentary completely ignores how we actually do business.

How is ND22 and $$$ hardball? 

It’s fair ball.

On 9/29/2022 at 4:12 PM, DeeSpencer said:

Watch Hawthorn attempt to own the peninsula and set up a Geelong east set up out of Dingley with players encouraged to move down the coast.

Not impossible from Casey but it’s actually further from Mornington than Dingley is. The roads are a mess. Public transport is non existent. The community has little to no interest in afl footy. Little interest in anything but kfc, long commutes in mid sized SUV’s and roundabouts.

In fact I’ll even go ahead and say all the suburbs out there shouldn’t exist. They are future slums way way too far from Melbourne and not at all connected with a satellite city. The Casey fields precinct is lipstick on a pig. One big collection of sporting facilities because they can’t get developers to actually spread them throughout these awful excuses for suburbs. And the community doesn’t use them enough to justify them so they’re all rented out to elite sporting clubs.

The entire area is a shrine to abysmal urban planning and development, corruption and greed.

So, DeeSpencer, I gather you aren't really likely to move to the City of Casey anytime soon.

5 hours ago, Engorged Onion said:

It certainly felt in 2021 - that Max would drift back to intercept in the D50/ half back line - far more frequently than he did this year?

Not sure if others saw it the same way.

Max seemed to still be doing the defensive 50 drop back up until QB when that mongrel  Cox 😎 repeatedly, and unpenalised, kneed him in the back, from which he really didn't recover.

Edited October 1, 20222 yr by monoccular

1 hour ago, Redleg said:

And maybe Tom Mitchell and a couple of others I forget atm.

You've got to remember which clubs drive clicks too. It makes sense for speculation to orient itself around the bigger clubs.

3 minutes ago, monoccular said:

So, DeeSpencer, I gather you aren't really likely to move to the City of Casey anytime soon.

Wouldn’t mind a hobby farm out in Devon Meadow’s with the Harmes’. Grow some trees, plant some veggies, happy days. Might even entertain the suburbs out there if they built a proper rail network connecting the area to Frankston. A Frankston to Cranbourne to Berwick train is such a no brainer of course that will never happen. Build out some housing density and mixed use business areas around the train stations. A couple of apartment blocks at either end of the Casey main oval would provide some much needed relief of the wind and some signs of life out there. I’d move in and watch VFL from my balcony!

39 minutes ago, monoccular said:

So, DeeSpencer, I gather you aren't really likely to move to the City of Casey anytime soon.

Max seemed to still be doing the defensive 50 drop back up until QB when that mongrel  Cox 😎 repeatedly, and unpenalised, kneed him in the back, from which he really didn't recover.

And he would have been instructed to do that by that shifty, the smiler coach.

The FD will work out what Grundy is worth to us and go from there, I’d reckon.  All the factors like cost, contract length, alternates, injuries etc would all be factored in.

coll need hm gone more than we need him in.  Coll need it done early in the trade period, which suggests ‘fair value’ may be easily paid by the filth. Can’t see us being bent over on this one.

55 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

A couple of apartment blocks at either end of the Casey main oval would provide some much needed relief of the wind and some signs of life out there. I’d move in and watch VFL from my balcony!

And they could literally call the development "Demonland"...