The very, very contentious 50 for Dissent Rule

[Go the Biff 3,423]

1 hour ago, picket fence said:

What the AFL really wants are two teams of these guys playing, with no arms to wave around and devoid of human emotion!

Nah - this bloke would be copping 50's left, right & centre
 

[DubDee 25,862]

This mess certainly makes we want to watch footy less and go to games less 

I have felt angry about it but now it’s just embarrassing and I’m losing interest in the sport to a degree

[Guest]

1 hour ago, dieter said:

People don't go to the footy to watch the umpires.

Sometimes you don’t have a choice but to watch them. The Hawks vs. Cats game on Monday was a ripper, the only negative being that the focus was continually shifting to the umpiring. 
Oh and Tom Hawkins. But’s he’s always a negative. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, picket fence said:

What the AFL really wants are two teams of these guys playing, with no arms to wave around and devoid of human emotion!

To be fair PF, that’d be hella-cute. 

[Graeme Yeats' Mullet 6,775]

31 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

Sometimes you don’t have a choice but to watch them. The Hawks vs. Cats game on Monday was a ripper, the only negative being that the focus was continually shifting to the umpiring. 
Oh and Tom Hawkins. But’s he’s always a negative. 

Yep as a neutral spectator it was a great game to watch and the only downside was horrible umpiring late in game

[monoccular 17,428]

8 hours ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

That’s only because the AFL will end up silencing the supporters as well. Heil Gil. 

The karma bus will end up biting him, or actually his successor, when people just stop watching the umpires who perceive themselves as the reason people attend. 

2 hours ago, BoBo said:

I for one welcome the new Android league. ROBOT AFL WOULD BE AMAZING.

Surely not better than AFLX 😱

[Lord Nev 13,512]

2 hours ago, Jaded No More said:

Have a look at the ratings since around 1. 
It’s been dropping significantly 

http://www.footyindustry.com/?page_id=136820

Of course it has if you're comparing it to round 1. Round 1 is always the highest ratings.

The fact is the TV ratings numbers are up.

HIGHEST EVER round 1 TV ratings.

Dees v Dogs second highest ever home and away game TV ratings.

FTA TV audiences are (so far) down by 8% on last year, BUT streaming service ratings are up by 19%.

Are we blaming umps for that too? Are they secretly working for Kayo?

Also, as far as the numbers go:

Round One was the highest attended round of football in Victoria since Round One, 2018, with Wednesday night's season opener between Melbourne and the Western Bulldogs the highest-ever attended home-and-away match between those two clubs.

Thursday night's Carlton vs. Richmond match was the second highest sporting event in the country since the COVID-19 pandemic, coming second only to the ANZAC Day match in 2021.

Friday night's St Kilda vs. Collingwood match was the highest home-and-away crowd at Marvel Stadium since 2019 while Saturday's Country Game between Geelong and Essendon was the Cats' fourth-highest attended game in the last five years.
 
Sunday's Hawthorn vs. North Melbourne match was the highest-attended match between those two sides since 2016.

While football fans attended matches in strong numbers they also tuned into the broadcasts in record numbers nationwide.

In New South Wales, the Sydney audience was up 20 per cent compared to Round One, 2021 with the GWS GIANTS vs. Sydney Swans recording the largest ever Round One Saturday twilight TV audience in Sydney.
 
In Brisbane, the Brisbane Lions vs. Port Adelaide match was the second largest ever Round One Saturday TV audience.
 
Meanwhile, the Adelaide Crows vs. Fremantle match saw the largest Round One Sunday TV audience in Adelaide in five years.
 
The St Kilda vs. Collingwood Friday night match saw the largest pay TV audience compared to all Friday night matches during the 2021 home-and-away season and was up 35 per cent compared to Round One last season.

https://www.afl.com.au/news/724566/afl-thanks-supporters-as-crowds-return-and-high-ratings-deliver-a-strong-start-to-the-2022-toyota-afl-premiership-season

 

[sue 9,106]

Someone posts that the new rule will cause them to lose interest and that is supposedly countered by stating there were record numbers viewing in Round 1.   
Presumably if it does cause a loss of interest (which I doubt even as an opponent of a strict interpretation) it won’t happen immediately. In fact people may probably be watching more matches currently just to see what the rule is doing. 

[Lord Nev 13,512]

8 minutes ago, sue said:

Someone posts that the new rule will cause them to lose interest and that is supposedly countered by stating there were record numbers viewing in Round 1.   
Presumably if it does cause a loss of interest (which I doubt even as an opponent of a strict interpretation) it won’t happen immediately. In fact people may probably be watching more matches currently just to see what the rule is doing. 

No, that's not what happened Sue. Not sure why you're trying to be misleading here?

The comment was:

"...a lot of people are finding themselves less and less interested in the game due to the constant changing of rules, poor umpiring and the standard of games.

The AFL is focused so heavily on TV rights and media deals, but if nobody wants to watch games, then those deals won't be worth much in the future."

That's a pretty assumption filled broad comment (without data to back it up), and it's absolutely not 'someone posting the new rule will cause them to lose interest...'

[Vagg 2,439]

Says it all...  

[sue 9,106]

5 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

No, that's not what happened Sue. Not sure why you're trying to be misleading here?

The comment was:

"...a lot of people are finding themselves less and less interested in the game due to the constant changing of rules, poor umpiring and the standard of games.

The AFL is focused so heavily on TV rights and media deals, but if nobody wants to watch games, then those deals won't be worth much in the future."

That's a pretty assumption filled broad comment (without data to back it up), and it's absolutely not 'someone posting the new rule will cause them to lose interest...'

I’m not trying to be misleading. Maybe I could have been clearer but I think what I said was in line with the general thrust of the post. Those  comments about falling interest were made in the context of the current issue. 

[Return to Glory 8,441]

Brad Scott has started well, hasn’t he!!

‘There’s to be no dissent’ says the former coaches box nutter.

[Lord Nev 13,512]

1 minute ago, sue said:

I’m not trying to be misleading. Maybe I could have been clearer but I think what I said was in line with the general thrust of the post. Those  comments about falling interest were made in the context of the current issue. 

The comments were that interest in watching the game is falling, and sure that was made within the context of the dissent rule.

The data doesn't back up that assertion though.

If the context was one persons interest - sure, that's their statement of fact. However, that's not what the comment was.

[Return to Glory 8,441]

 

[Whispering_Jack 30,107]

Think this is going to make it easier for umpires in the local leagues?

What a local footy umpire ‘dreads’ about his next game

[Dr. Gonzo 24,215]

22 hours ago, Macca said:

I came to terms with different umpires interpreting different decisions within the same games long ago.  I reckon every umpire would see the chaotic sport of footy slightly differently from the next (full time umpires could alleviate that issue - somewhat)

But my attitude is that I could let the inconsistencies bother me or go the other way and take the good with the bad.  Decades ago, I went the other way

I am also one of the few people who will (within games) recognise the lucky free kicks that we receive along with the free kicks that the opposition should have received

And if anyone attempted to do what I do (for say a month or so) they might see the game in a whole new light

The game is a chaotic one, with grey areas left, right and centre.  The umpires do the best they can, they aren't biased, they never cheat, they don't hate us and they don't favour any other teams

For decades my philosophy has been that the club needed to build a great list of players ... only then could we win big.  All the rest of it was faith, hope, trust and belief systems (and the blaming of umpires) ... no substance

I based that thinking on watching the best of the best going about their business (year after year) ... we needed to do what those clubs were doing

So that's what we've done (finally)

By the way, the so-called favoured Bulldogs only received 13 free kicks in last year's GF

Why?  Because in my view, they were 2nd to the ball all game and therefore couldn't milk the free kicks.  We monstered them in that area

And their M.O. is to play in front and then milk frees ... they are very good at that aspect (a logical reason as to why they consistently lead the overall free kick count)  But we didn't allow them to do so.  We destroyed them in all areas of the game

A very simple explanation but in my view, the truth

So I don't blame umpires and therefore, I believe we should have the utmost respect for umpires.  They are not the enemy, the other teams are

Thus, I like the new ruling

That's great but you didn't answer my question. My problem is not with the umpires it is with the AFL, it's rules committee and whatever department Brad Scott is in charge of.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,215]

12 hours ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

Sometimes you don’t have a choice but to watch them. The Hawks vs. Cats game on Monday was a ripper, the only negative being that the focus was continually shifting to the umpiring. 
Oh and Tom Hawkins. But’s he’s always a negative. 

Long term it leads to disengagement though.

[Macca 16,969]

42 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

That's great but you didn't answer my question. My problem is not with the umpires it is with the AFL, it's rules committee and whatever department Brad Scott is in charge of.

I don't share the same concerns

[Dr. Gonzo 24,215]

Just now, Macca said:

I don't share the same concerns

The concern is that the contradictory rules and "grey areas" particularly around interpretation makes the game extremely difficult to umpire. Combine that with having to be an endurance athlete to qualify as an umpire and having to master a skill (bouncing the ball) it is one of the toughest games to umpire in the world. The AFL exacerbates this with their rules and interpretations.

[Macca 16,969]

Just now, Dr. Gonzo said:

The concern is that the contradictory rules and "grey areas" particularly around interpretation makes the game extremely difficult to umpire. Combine that with having to be an endurance athlete to qualify as an umpire and having to master a skill (bouncing the ball) it is one of the toughest games to umpire in the world. The AFL exacerbates this with their rules and interpretations.

Yeah, that's your view, Gonzo.  We don't all think the same way

I can watch a game of footy and just take all the good with the bad.  As a general rule, I block out all the stuff that might displease me.

It's a chaotic sport, they'll almost certainly never go close with regards to fixing up all the grey areas (due to the nature of the sport) so you can either let it get to you or realise you have to live with it

I do have the odd concern ... the need to have total respect towards umpires and the decisions that they make

And hopefully, we are now going to have a swing in that direction. The game will be better for it

So with regards to our team, I'm thoroughly enjoying our wins and the way that we are playing.  And it's all about the hard work we are putting in. We are getting on with

But you can view stuff any way you like, I'm not trying to change your mind (or the minds of others) ... if I was, I'd be here 24/7 quoting people hundreds of times a day

 

 

[Vipercrunch 2,827]

I think a much better approach to the games current issues is to get serious about diving/simulation (more charges laid, and bigger fines leading to suspensions to repeat offenders) and to deal with umpire dissent and abuse after the games instead of inconsistently punishing during the games.  The entire system breaks down when the very mild instances like Harris Andrews and the Hawks boys get punished, while the much more demonstrative and aggressive dissent of Hewitt (?? - the Carlton player) get missed.  Start with fines of $5k, keep doubling it for repeat offences.  If a club has more than 5 offences in a year, $50k out of that clubs soft cap for the following year with $50k more for each offence after that.

The final step is to reintroduce a public report into contentious umpiring decisions after each round.  Let us know what decisions were right, what was wrong and why the mistake was made (blind spots, bad positioning etc).  Not to shame the individual umpires, but to help recalibrate the footy loving public as to how the rules are meant to be interpreted.  The inconsistency we are seeing is the main cause of the publics frustrations. 

[Vipercrunch 2,827]

49 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

The concern is that the contradictory rules and "grey areas" particularly around interpretation makes the game extremely difficult to umpire. Combine that with having to be an endurance athlete to qualify as an umpire and having to master a skill (bouncing the ball) it is one of the toughest games to umpire in the world. The AFL exacerbates this with their rules and interpretations.

It's seriously time to throw the center bounce out.  People think they care, but if/when it happens, they won't miss it at all.  In the games where they umpires haven't bounced the ball due to conditions, I can guarantee no one sits on the train on the way home saying "Gee Frank, I really missed the center bounces today!!
 

[layzie 33,801]

A friend in one of my game day message groups expressed his displeasure on Sat night at players ducking and driving head first into tackles for free kicks lately and suggested that if this happens there should be a free kick paid against. I'm sure there are many who agree with this but I think this kind of thinking is exactly what gets us in this situation in the first place where we just keep layering up the game with more interpretation for the umpires who have enough to deal with as it is. Seriously, so we should now ask them to make judgement calls on player's motives? And what if they slip in the tackle and the umpire now has another means to pull out the whistle and therefore a potential mistake?

In my time watching the game I've never heard so many potential scenarios where experts are saying "This could cost a team a grand final you know".

We need to make this game easier to officiate, plain and simple. 

[waynewussell 5,746]

6 minutes ago, Vipercrunch said:

It's seriously time to throw the center bounce out.  People think they care, but if/when it happens, they won't miss it at all.  In the games where they umpires haven't bounced the ball due to conditions, I can guarantee no one sits on the train on the way home saying "Gee Frank, I really missed the center bounces today!!
 

There is inconsistency in the way umpires throw the ball up! For that reason, it is not the perfect replacement for the bounce that commentators suggest. Some umpires throw it higher, some umpires throw it less than vertical... the ball ends up following them as they backtrack. Some umpires throw it as quickly as they can, whilst others wait to settle. All of these variations have an effect on timing and positioning for the competing rucks... not that far removed from what happens with the bounce!

[Macca 16,969]

So here is a grey area that we won't be able to fix

The highly contentious high contact free kick ... players duck, drop their knees, throw their heads back etc etc in order to milk the free kick.  And every year the problem gets worse as more and more players are becoming adept at milking high contact

And it all happens so fast that the umpires can't begin to be able to get the adjudication right.  We often need 3 or 4 replays in order to work it out ourselves

We could decide to not pay high contact free kicks (inless the neck/head area is targeted) but here's the issue with doing that ... the concussion protocols and issues with the head now being sacrosanct

So we can't fix it even if we wanted to

So we have to live with it.  Complaining won't solve the problem

Further to that, we probably see an example of high contact up to 30 times a game (either paid or not paid)

The only possible fix (and it's an extreme long shot) is if they retrospectively ping the cheats and start handing out suspensions retrospectively.  And that might number 100+ players in any given week

And that's just one facet of the sport

Good luck trying to fix it all of it

 

Edited April 21, 2022 by Macca