MFC player racially abused on social media - club statement

[Smokey 4,389]

8 minutes ago, 1964_2 said:

He mentioned a politician who has acted in a racist manner historically (fact). The poster, me or anyone else is not bringing up whether we are pro, or against Trump......leftist or conservative. It is completely irrelevant to the topic of this discussion - Racism. 

but you are trying to deflect the topic of racism and bring in “leftist” claims and the like. 

you have yourself a good day matey. 

 

 

Believe the term we're looking for here is 'snowflake' haha 

[Hopeful Demon 1,517]

1 hour ago, faultydet said:

What an absolute load of trash.

Leftists ALWAYS smear the leading conservative with cries of "racist" the moment they assume leadership of their party.

It's their "operatus modus" (sic)

 

Cant you lefties leave your politics out of just one thread for goodness sake?

 

 

It seems that you're the only one who wants politics to be involved in this thread. By accusing people of being "lefties," you are displaying how hostile you are to people who don't hold the same views as you do. I couldn't care less if you disagree with other peoples' posts but leave those derogatory labels out of your comments.

Edited August 11, 2021 by Hopeful Demon

[Guest]

40 minutes ago, Smokey said:

You're upset that somebody brought up Donald Trump in a conversation about racism. Why does that reference threaten your political identity to the point you launch into an anti-left tirade?

It should also be mentioned that he never really was recognized as a ‘Republican’ per se (his registration has always changed depending how the wind blows) when he decided to indulge in the birth certificate lie, or his full page ad calling for the death penalty for the Central Park Five (AFTER they had been exonerated).

His anti-China rhetoric has merely been transferred from Japan, who was his preferred target for coded resentment in the early 90’s. I should also note that the former is clearly more culpable for flagrant human rights abuses than the latter. Coming from Trumpists however, that criticism rings pretty hollow. 

Trump, and the malignancy he represents, was always a virus looking to infect an ideal host. Historical trends sadly made that the Republican Party, a party that once was forefront in the noble fight against slavery and for civil rights (remember that the civil rights act was only passed on GOP support wrangled by LBJ). It’s now up to those GOPers left with a conscience to reclaim that party.

Had the Democratic Party not broken free of the hold of the Dixiecrats and if the Southern strategy was not adopted by Nixon in ‘68, we may well be having an unrecognizable conversation in terms of a Trump like figure harnessing a party to his own nefarious ends.

Not mentioning him when talking about the normalization of coded racist rhetoric for fear of upsetting partisan sensibilities neuters any conversation from the very start.

P.S. Trump’s lawyer and mentor, Roy Cohn, was a gay Jewish man (albeit one that was outwardly closeted and homophobic until the day he died) who was a lifelong registered Democrat. He was also a leading light in the McCarthyist witch hunts of the 50’s, an informal advisor to both Nixon and Reagan and a member of the notoriously racist John Birch Society. Are we allowed to talk about the pernicious effect he had and continues to have on the US thanks to acolytes like Roger Stone and Donald Trump because he was a Democrat (and notionally ‘Left’)?

Edited August 11, 2021 by Colin B. Flaubert
Added the P.S. bit

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Hopeful Demon said:

It seems that you're the only one who wants politics to be involved in this thread. By accusing people of being "lefties," you are displaying how hostile you are to people who don't hold the same views as you do. I couldn't care less if you disagree with other peoples' posts but leave those derogatory labels out of your comments.

This post. This is what gives me a great sense of confidence that the current generation of kids will make the most progress in this attempt at monumental change for the future. Not so much the content of this post, which is btw exactly how I feel, and very well put, but the fact that it’s been posted by a young person (I’m guessing 18 or 19yo). I may sound naive but I hope the majority of @Hopeful Demon’s generation are of this view. 

[sue 9,102]

1 hour ago, I'va Worn Smith said:

The 'issue' is about the human condition.  If all politicians showed true leadership on this issue, then fine, but they don't.  Racism is for all of us to deal with and should never be 'politicised'.  It was the political reference to which my original post was responding.  Talking about 'leftists' and conservatives does not deal with the problem, but provides a refuge for those who deny the problem exists in our body politic.

I completely disagree. Your implicit defintition of politics is far too restrictive. It's more than political parties and the current politicians.  Real politics (not manouevering for votes) is about the human condition and how to better it. 

Just because some right winger thinks anti-rascism is a leftist plot, doesn't make it a non-political issue.   It says more about that person.

[Cranky Franky 2,058]

39 minutes ago, S_T said:

I can't see any public statement out of WCE so far.  If that is the actual case, extremely poor by them.

As long as our society keeps giving platforms to people like Andrew Bolt, Alan Jones and Rita Panihi, racists will still think it's ok to speak their hateful thoughts out loud.  I actually feel quite sorry for them.  Imagine being so shallow and disconnected from the rest of humanity that you think it's ok.

If you want to live in a democratic society that has freedom of speech you have to put up with views that you find disagreeable.

[Cranky Franky 2,058]

52 minutes ago, Colin B. Flaubert said:

Molly Meldrum copped homophobic jibes and innuendo most weeks as well.

Nice work. Whenever you keep it under 50 words and resist the temptation of giving us a history lesson you make lots of sense.

[Little Goffy 14,530]

I just watched Eddie Betts' short video on Fox Footy about how it was affecting him and it really prompted one very clear thought in my head.

Eddie knows Taylor Walker, worked with him for years. Walker was his captain for a time and also a vital person to work with in that Adelaide forward line. Eddie has to digest the idea that all along when people were directing racist abuse at him and others, his former captain and very close colleague had a bit of underground sympathy for all that ####.

Now that Pickett also has been abused it gives us a very close to home analogy. A part of Kozzie's mind has to be considering the idea that any given one of his teammates, his captain, his forward line colleagues, might quietly be all right with it, too.

Then Pickett, a young player in a role which is exposed to bad days no matter how good you are, also has to process the possibility that maybe there's a midfielder who would rather honour someone else's lead or there's a voice on the selection committee that still thinks Aboriginal people lack the discipline to train properly and that's why Pickett's form is up and down.

And if he has the courage to stand up to the little signs and ambiguous comments, he runs the risk of being perceived as 'oversensitive' and going down the Lamumba path, or even getting his own experience of the Goodes disaster.

What a trap. You're in it even if you're not in it - the Melbourne Football Club could be a true haven of decency but no Indigenous player could be sure.

 

[Webber 10,465]

2 hours ago, John Crow Batty said:

If you are referring to the 70’s, it was still bad but not as bad as in the 1960’s and 50’s. Working class areas were extremely hostile to migrants in particular. People were becoming somewhat more aware and enlightened in the 70’s. One vivid incident I recall was my mum walking me home from school when I was 7 years old and a drunken Aussie fresh out of the pub punched me on the nose for no good reason as he staggered by. Gave me a blood nose. All he said was “effing dagos”. I saw a Chinese guy beaten up on a tram unprovoked. My dad several times came home bloodied with torn clothes. Respectable looking people in shops were not afraid to loudly air racist opinions. Not just school yard stuff.

 

Made of tough stuff were those post war arrivals, JCB. 

Edited August 11, 2021 by Webber
‘

[Cranky Franky 2,058]

10 minutes ago, Little Goffy said:

I just watched Eddie Betts' short video on Fox Footy about how it was affecting him and it really prompted one very clear thought in my head.

Eddie knows Taylor Walker, worked with him for years. Walker was his captain for a time and also a vital person to work with in that Adelaide forward line. Eddie has to digest the idea that all along when people were directing racist abuse at him and others, his former captain and very close colleague had a bit of underground sympathy for all that ####.

Now that Pickett also has been abused it gives us a very close to home analogy. A part of Kozzie's mind has to be considering the idea that any given one of his teammates, his captain, his forward line colleagues, might quietly be all right with it, too.

Then Pickett, a young player in a role which is exposed to bad days no matter how good you are, also has to process the possibility that maybe there's a midfielder who would rather honour someone else's lead or there's a voice on the selection committee that still thinks Aboriginal people lack the discipline to train properly and that's why Pickett's form is up and down.

And if he has the courage to stand up to the little signs and ambiguous comments, he runs the risk of being perceived as 'oversensitive' and going down the Lamumba path, or even getting his own experience of the Goodes disaster.

What a trap. You're in it even if you're not in it - the Melbourne Football Club could be a true haven of decency but no Indigenous player could be sure.

 

Jesus Goffy talk about pessimism. 

I'm happily married but I've found out the neighbour's wife was unfaithful so now I have to spy on my wife because there's a chance she'll be unfaithful as well.

 

[Cranky Franky 2,058]

2 hours ago, Colin B. Flaubert said:

Firstly, thank you for sticking up for me, Webber. I’m very grateful as so often people are cowed by the most bombastic and obnoxious voices in conversations like this.

Secondly, @Demonland, @Nasher, or @Grapevineyplease do not close down this thread because ‘people cannot play nice’. The vast majority of posters are arguing in good faith, and as a community, we can come out of this more united, inclusive and progressive as a result.

Do not both sides this because there is only one side hurling epithets at others without provocation. Please deal with them.

Thirdly, I’ve put the quoted poster on ignore because their MO, as well as others, is pretty clear. (Please correct me if I’m wrong, but I struggle to think of any time I’ve actually seen the poster in question in a football related thread). Reacting to them gives oxygen to points that are either redundant or disingenuous, and add nothing to the conversation. However, as their content comes up through quotations*, I feel I must respond.

Their strategy is to obfuscate, pettifog, change the goal posts, and then resort to insults or provocation so it becomes an issue of individual grievances, both sidesism, and etiquette.

The thread gets closed, actual discussion is kyboshed and no closure or consensus is attained.

When that happens, they win.

To make this a brawl between myself and them is doing a dishonor to the structural conversation we are having. This is an issue beyond my ego, pride, personal opinions or reputation. Quite frankly (no pun intended), me also reacting to them plays right into their hands. It’s kind of complimentary as well as they wouldn’t be attacking me personally if they didn’t think what I was saying might resonate with some. Ineffective arguments generally just get ignored.

I view posters on this forum like that, who are becoming less and less brazen since the Walker incident, like Hiroo Onoda, the last Japanese soldier active in WW2 who stayed in the Philippine jungle until 1974. The tide has turned against them and they either never got the memo or refuse to admit it has. 

Nice work Col to ignore me. A lot easier than debating the issue. I note that you hardly ever answer any specific criticisms you just launch into a history lesson complete with video clips.

Cancel culture is mainly inflicted by progressives so I'll wear that proudly.

 

[TRIGON 4,783]

6 hours ago, Cassiew said:

Still waiting for West Coast’s statement denouncing it.

I’m tired of people using the excuse as “it’s too PC these days.” While I agree to an extent, this isn’t the case. It’s racism. 
I remember the old “stop the mosques, go the pies” banner. I hope it encouraged more people to hate Collingwood.

I know it’s a unpopular opinion, but I don’t agree with all the abuse Goodes copped. Yes I don’t agree with what he did, but let’s not forget the father ALLOWED his daughter to say those racist things without stopping her. I think he was the real villain of that saga. Any of my nieces/nephews calling a person of colour an “ape” would likely be swiftly reprimanded by their parents. 

Did that actually happen?

[Webber 10,465]

5 minutes ago, Cranky Franky said:

progressives

More labelling. 

[Demonstone 22,506]

4 minutes ago, TRIGON said:

Did that actually happen?

Sad but true.

[Jaded No More 68,913]

Still no word from West Coast? Do we know if the [censored] who posted this stuff online is even a West Coast fan?

Either way, [censored] poor from them not to even acknowledge it. Sore losers. 

[1964_2 2,357]

18 minutes ago, Cranky Franky said:

Jesus Goffy talk about pessimism. 

I'm happily married but I've found out the neighbour's wife was unfaithful so now I have to spy on my wife because there's a chance she'll be unfaithful as well.

 

Given your attitude, I would say there is a massive chance she is cheating on you.

watch her closely! 
 

[1964_2 2,357]

31 minutes ago, Little Goffy said:

I just watched Eddie Betts' short video on Fox Footy about how it was affecting him and it really prompted one very clear thought in my head.

Eddie knows Taylor Walker, worked with him for years. Walker was his captain for a time and also a vital person to work with in that Adelaide forward line. Eddie has to digest the idea that all along when people were directing racist abuse at him and others, his former captain and very close colleague had a bit of underground sympathy for all that ####.

Now that Pickett also has been abused it gives us a very close to home analogy. A part of Kozzie's mind has to be considering the idea that any given one of his teammates, his captain, his forward line colleagues, might quietly be all right with it, too.

Then Pickett, a young player in a role which is exposed to bad days no matter how good you are, also has to process the possibility that maybe there's a midfielder who would rather honour someone else's lead or there's a voice on the selection committee that still thinks Aboriginal people lack the discipline to train properly and that's why Pickett's form is up and down.

And if he has the courage to stand up to the little signs and ambiguous comments, he runs the risk of being perceived as 'oversensitive' and going down the Lamumba path, or even getting his own experience of the Goodes disaster.

What a trap. You're in it even if you're not in it - the Melbourne Football Club could be a true haven of decency but no Indigenous player could be sure.

 

Great post mate - this is spot on, and needs to be part of the education/awareness. 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, I'va Worn Smith said:

Agreed.  Well said.  But politicians of later times, chose to demonise - excuse the pun - immigrants, for the sake of political expediency.  Fraser and Whitlam had a bipartisan approach, despite being vehement political enemies.  Hawke led the charge after the Tianamen Square tragedy, with the support of the then opposition

I’d add, and this is just my take, for partisan positioning.

Prior to Bob Hawke, the main political fault lines existed along the lines of economics. Multiculturalism, opposition to apartheid, and a non discriminatory migration policy were the consensus. How fast we proceeded towards monetarism was the sticking point (Fraser himself, while introducing the Razor Gang cuts, was never a free marketer at heart).

When the ALP was elected in ‘83 and introduced the wages accord, floated the dollar and scrapped central wage fixing, it was about the same time that the ‘Economic Dries’ were starting to assert themselves in the coalition against a backdrop of ascendant neoliberalism in the UK, USA and New Zealand. That being said, they had to wait until Howard rolled Peacock until they took over.

With Australia now having a bipartisan economic policy, the space for policy difference was negligible. Despite Harold Holt being the de facto dismantler of White Australia, the ALP being a fervent believer in it up until the days of Whitlam and Don Dunstan, and the dominant and formidable presence of the firmly anti racist Malcolm Fraser (a part of me really hopes that in an alternative reality that Trump made his ranting phone call to him or Keating about the refugee swap), there had always been a nativist and ethnocentric side to some conservative voters that could be mined. This stretches back to the New Guard in NSW, the League of Rights and the electoral success of Joh Bjelke Petersen.

Sadly, the issue they split from the national consensus involved discrimination, migration and multiculturalism. And that’s why for me race being political isn’t an issue, it is it being partisan that is. (I get the feeling we are roughly on the same page anyway, it’s just some definitions where we diverge).

P.S. I realize this deviated a bit from the main topic so if @iv'a worn smithwants to discuss this further, we should take it to DMs.

Edited August 11, 2021 by Colin B. Flaubert
Whitlam, not Whitman! Walt or Slim Whitman were never Australian PM from what I can tell!

[Smokey 4,389]

19 minutes ago, Cranky Franky said:

Nice work Col to ignore me. A lot easier than debating the issue. I note that you hardly ever answer any specific criticisms you just launch into a history lesson complete with video clips.

Cancel culture is mainly inflicted by progressives so I'll wear that proudly.

 

Just because a post is too long for you to absorb doesn't mean your points weren't addressed 

Stick to news.com if you prefer consuming bite size content 

Edited August 11, 2021 by Smokey

[Webber 10,465]

33 minutes ago, Cranky Franky said:

launch into a history lesson

Which are really interesting, and clearly exceptionally informed. 

[Hopeful Demon 1,517]

1 hour ago, Cranky Franky said:

Nice work. Whenever you keep it under 50 words and resist the temptation of giving us a history lesson you make lots of sense.

 

44 minutes ago, Cranky Franky said:

Nice work Col to ignore me. A lot easier than debating the issue. I note that you hardly ever answer any specific criticisms you just launch into a history lesson complete with video clips.

Cancel culture is mainly inflicted by progressives so I'll wear that proudly.

 

I hope you understand that it is possible to express disagreements without resorting to unnecessary ad-hominem attacks. I don't think it's that difficult.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Smokey said:

Just because a post is too long for you to absorb doesn't mean your points weren't addressed 

Stick to news.com if you prefer consuming bite size content 

As I’ve had my name mentioned in quotations (and I know that you meant no harm @Smokey), the post mentioned really is quite instructive.

The first thing that stood out to me is the sense of entitlement. Who says I ‘owe’ that poster, or anyone for that matter, a debate? 

The second thing is the presumption of what this thread is about. It’s a discussion, not a debate, about a societal malady that is plaguing Australia and how we should address it. It’s not a zero sum game, where winners and losers need be declared. The fact that the poster is approaching this from a binary viewpoint really says a lot about what they are bringing to a conversation on anti-racism.

The third thing is what I believe the poster’s idea of a debate is. Mine, and that of a lot of liberal minded academics, is that two sets of ideas are presented, and one emerges as the superior by objective analysis, or a third compromise position is adopted where both positions are integrated.

However, I do not believe that is their intention.

I believe that their baiting and posting about me is performative and tactical. It’s not about winning the debate by use of ‘logic and reason’ (that phrase has been horribly abused) changing my or anyone else’s mind or having theirs changed, it’s being seen to have ‘wrekt the SJWs’. This is pure aesthetic and by quote tweeting them, they can, at the least, convince others in their tribe of the calcified beliefs they share (‘The Libs are scared of debate!’ even though they themselves are usually debating in bad faith) or, at best, turn the thread into a bun fight.

As such I ask again not to quote back their messages on the main board.

Sadly, a fleeting exchange with a rando from the other side of the culture war will not convince them of the folly of any positions they hold. Quite frankly (there I go again!), it’s not really my responsibility to do so either. They need to, as we said, ‘do the work’ themselves.

Edited August 11, 2021 by Colin B. Flaubert
Clean up

[leave it to deever 17,511]

18 hours ago, BoBo said:

It’s not a joke, it’s not just words, indigenous people aren’t being too ‘sensitive’, these slurs are bringing up all of that history of being thought of as sub-human which is massively alienating and hurtful. It is something white guys like me will, never, ever understand or actually be made to feel like this. It’s alien to us as in racial terms, we have always been ‘normal’ (I.e. white) Australians.

Greta post BoBo.

You can see the pain in the faces of players that have spoken about this issue. It is obviously incredibly hurtful and disrespectful to them. Some of them look gutted.

The only positive is I do believe as bad as it has been at times, things are improving a little bit.

Maybe I am wrong and just live in a different world. Sad to say back in the 70s and 80s going to the footy as a teenager and then a young adult I heard some bad stuff on too many occasions. But while I don't get to as many games anymore I don't hear any negative comments at all.

Obviously its still happening, but I'm buoyed by the fact that its shouted down in this day and age and rightfully so.

Lets hope we can continue to educate people on the pain this causes but I guess there will never be a cure for total irrationality.

[deanox 9,914]

2 hours ago, Cranky Franky said:

If you want to live in a democratic society that has freedom of speech you have to put up with views that you find disagreeable.

I disagree with this. It's the paradox of tolerance.

If we want to live in a tolerant society, then we absolutely cannot tolerate the intolerant.

This thread is an example of people not tolerating the intolerant. Demonlanders are standing up to say "I want to be anti-racist, and that means holding people to account when their actions enable racism in society, even if their actions aren't actively racist." 

I'm proud of this community.

 

Edited August 11, 2021 by deanox
Spelling

[Cassiew 1,903]

1 hour ago, TRIGON said:

Did that actually happen?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-04-02/afl-will-not-tolerate-deeply-offensive-anti-muslim-banner/7294430