COVID & AFL 2021

[binman 37,796]

56 minutes ago, bing181 said:

I'm in France. We have a suppression, minimisation strategy. And 110K dead from Covid.

Exactly. 

In all likelihood, if we had not chosen an elimination there is no chance we would have kept it to 100, 000 cases. We would have been lucky to have kept it 1, 000, 000 cases. 

We made the call as country to go down the zero covid path. A path that i supported as did the overwhelming majority of Australians.

And i reckon, if truth be told, even the open it up, the cure is worse than the disease, zealots secretly supported it.  So easy to make theoretical, ideological statements from the luxury of you covid free soap box.

In Victoria we endured a four month lockdown, but that is nothing compared to what say Europe has had to endure.

And for most of the rest of the time we have enjoyed, with the rest of Australia, all the benefits of a covid free life.

Those benefits include a surging economy, strong consumer confidence, low unemployment - and if you are lucky enough to own a house, record house prices.

And it is worth noting that these benefits completely contradict one of the key predictions of the open it up crew - an elimination  strategy would cause economic ruin. Well, those dramatic warnings have simply not come to pass - but i don't hear the Paul Murray's and Andrew Bolt's of this world walking back their predictions. 

These over the top predictions, have not only proven to be completely wrong, they also make a mockery of the narrative such toss posts push that the governments and health authorities are running scare campaigns.

What thee commentators should have been banging on about instead of haranguing sate labor governments and pushing an open it up mantra, is using their influence with the federal Liberal party to pressure them to get their act together with the quarantine and vaccination programs.

Credit where it is due, Peta Credlin is doing so now. Twelve months ago would have been better, but better late then never.  

 

Edited June 30, 2021 by binman

[faultydet 7,593]

7 hours ago, binman said:

faulty, my 'quite a tell' comment was related to the fact you watch Paul Murry every night, not the hospitalization data.

Paul Murry is a Murdoch lapdog with zero credibility, and is someone i would not trust in anyway on any subject. But given you watch him every night i suspect i am not gong to convince you about how big a dill he is, how dangerous and divisive he, and his Murdoch ilk, are. A poison. So i won't bother.

On hospitalization numbers, i have no idea what you mean by no leftist commentator wants to go any where near. Whcy would they want to avoid it. I can't recall the number but di we not have 800 deaths in Victoria last year? 

And just looking at the todays numbers from NSW they have had 171 cases in this latest outbreak. One of them is in ICU . People are fretting about the extremely small chance of getting seriously ill from AZ. Imagine if the odds were one in 171 of going to ICU.

In those same figures NSW reports it has had 5, 637 cases of covid in total and 56 deaths, So one in a hundred (and it is worth noting they didn't have the same issues we di in aged care). 

Paul Murray and his acolytes might not care about those figures, but most Australians do. 

But lets not debate it faulty, coz there is zero chance we will come together on this topic. 

Mate, you are a leftist. Everything to the right of MAO is dangerous and divisive to you and your kind. Hence the re-writing of history and re-inventing of words to suit the lefty narrative.

The governments of the world feed on left wing ideology like yours because it ends itself to submitting to government power and control.

Murrays hospital figures are from the State Governments themselves because he asks, unlike the lefty activists at the ABC and Fauxfacts and even some in the Murdoch press who simply regurgitate the lockdown line ad nauseum. Public opinion is turning against lockdowns because most people wont swallow the b.s any longer.

 

 

[Rab D Nesbitt 7,060]

1 hour ago, A F said:

3 million per home game? The ground holds 50k odd doesn't it? Those numbers don't compute.

Charlie. Those 50,000 all have noses. Some are even on their faces. 

[Rab D Nesbitt 7,060]

5 hours ago, Demonland said:

 

I thought South Australians were all one big family. 

[Little Goffy 12,512]

4 hours ago, ManDee said:

You haven't answered the question.  Where do you get the data that supports the bolded sentence?.  

Edit remove 2nd question  - add original bolded sentence - "On the other hand, just a few weeks worth of a Covid-19 cluster spread without either large-scale vaccine coverage or lockdowns would kill hundreds - and then it would really get going."

Your tactics are odious. This information is all readily available in the public domain from numerous sources.

[olisik 4,060]

Where’s all the media articles about all the events hosted interstate that Melbourne were now priming to steal.

 

It was only a few weeks ago other states were trying to nab the GF again and now look where we are.

[faultydet 7,593]

5 hours ago, binman said:

Agree to an extent BB. But not when it comes to partisan zealots. 

And with Paul Murray i can assure you i do not reject him based on his employer.

No doubt there are any number of excellent  journos who work for Murdoch, many of whom who hold views contrary to mine and that  would be happy to engage in a discussion with. 

I reject him Murray because of his truly offensive and dangerous views on all manner of issues. For the same reason i reject Pauline Hanson and repudiate her views.  

I'm all for intellectual rigor and debate BB. But to engage with the arguments of such people is to give their aberrant views some level of credibility.  

And i refuse to engage with world views that have as their foundation a belief that there is alternative facts.

Such engagement leads us to the insane situation in America where tens of millions of Americans believe trumps big lie (more than 50% of republican voters), tens of millions believe in Qanon and people like Marjorie Taylor Greene and mark Gaetz can be elected to congress.

And who has laid the ground work for that reality? Murdoch.

And people are crazy if they think we  are not risk of heading down that path here. 

The ABC has a full roster of pastisan zealots and yet you happily swallow every gulp of the tripe they feed you.

Paul Murray is brilliant, as is Credlin. Kevin 07 must have palpitations every time they are on air.

Defund the ABC and put the money into mental health treatment. At least the cash will find its way back to the newly unemployed activists.

And Qanon is embarrassing garbage. Why bring that into an adult discussion?

[daisycutter 28,459]

26 minutes ago, Rab D Nesbitt said:

Charlie. Those 50,000 all have noses. Some are even on their faces. 

you mean west aussies have noses (plural)?........well butter me on both sides

[whatwhat say what 18,793]

5 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

you mean west aussies have noses (plural)?........well butter me on both sides

mostly deviated septums, surely...

[binman 37,796]

1 hour ago, faultydet said:

Public opinion is turning against lockdowns 

Faulty, as i say there is little value in us batting this one back and forth.

That said, i have one question - do you really believe this to be true?

If so what evidence do you have that it is the case. And by evidence I don't mean the Murdoch/Sky echo chamber. I mean hard evidence.

Not a Paul Murray or Peta Credlin editorial. Not anecdotal evidence, or a vibe or all my mates reckon.  Hard evidence.

I would argue it is completely and utterly untrue. 

And there is a mountain of hard, real evidence to back up that postion.

Public polling for one (google it). I'll be my bottom dollar that even in NSW polling will show very strong support for the decision to lockdown. 

The Western Australian election. The New Zealand election. Landslide victories on the back of hard health restrictions, border closures and lockdowns.

The fact that that every state and territory, bar tassie and Canberra, has chosen to lockdown at some point. And will continue to do so whenever there is on outbreak. Well, until such time as the feds get their [censored] together and 70% of the population is vaccinated. 

The public support (again see the polls) for the country to be in a virtual lockdown and not allowing international visitors is more evidence. We love that [censored]. Shut the door. Stay away. We're an island

The fact there is broad support (again see the polls) for us allowing Australian citizens being stranded overseas. Bad luck mate - we're in lockdown. 

Which is why a Liberal government not making any move to change the settings on international visitors and travel.

Why isn't the coalition, who are all about the free market, doing everything in its power to open the borders to get all businesses humming and international dollars flowing?

The answer is obvious - because they would risk being smashed at the next election because there is overwhelming  public support for closed borders (again see the polls).

If anything they are going the other way becuase narrow path to victory Scotty is a political animal and he knows the public love nothing more than being kept safe. Lock us down ScoMo.

Do people hate lockdown? Of course

But the evidence that the public support lockdowns to control outbreaks is incontrovertible.

If you have evidence to the contrary i would be interested in seeing it. 

 

Edited June 30, 2021 by binman

[whatwhat say what 18,793]

the vic 2022 election should be interesting - o'brien (or, more likely, his replacement) will undoubtedly make it a 'lockdown election' and the result may give an indication as to what effect the murdoch approach to screaming anti-labor sentiment at every opportunity actually has in reality

[Rab D Nesbitt 7,060]

11 minutes ago, whatwhat say what said:

the vic 2022 election should be interesting - o'brien (or, more likely, his replacement) will undoubtedly make it a 'lockdown election' and the result may give an indication as to what effect the murdoch approach to screaming anti-labor sentiment at every opportunity actually has in reality

Hi WWsW. I'm not so sure it'll be that close. Outside of their traditional leafy inner east heartland I don't think they'll get too much traction. A lot of people would have seen through the faux concern for the low income earners and migrants stuck in those North Melbourne flats last year and it wasn't very long ago they were in a bind about whether to back a new law that would ban gay conversion therapy by prayer of all things. They might even be tarnished a bit by the federal governments continued stance on fossil fuels. I think the current government we have down here is probably good for another three years although by what margin I could only guess. 

Anyway, back to Covid & AFL 2021 as the header says. 

[faultydet 7,593]

36 minutes ago, binman said:

Faulty, as i say there is little value in us batting this one back and forth.

That said, i have one question - do you really believe this to be true?

If so what evidence do you have that it is the case. And by evidence I don't mean the Murdoch/Sky echo chamber. I mean hard evidence.

Not a Paul Murray or Peta Credlin editorial. Not anecdotal evidence, or a vibe or all my mates reckon.  Hard evidence.

I would argue it is completely and utterly untrue. 

And there is a mountain of hard, real evidence to back up that postion.

Public polling for one (google it). I'll be my bottom dollar that even in NSW polling will show very strong support for the decision to lockdown. 

The Western Australian election. The New Zealand election. Landslide victories on the back of hard health restrictions, border closures and lockdowns.

The fact that that every state and territory, bar tassie and Canberra, has chosen to lockdown at some point. And will continue to do so whenever there is on outbreak. Well, until such time as the feds get their [censored] together and 70% of the population is vaccinated. 

The public support (again see the polls) for the country to be in a virtual lockdown and not allowing international visitors is more evidence. We love that [censored]. Shut the door. Stay away. We're an island

The fact there is broad support (again see the polls) for us allowing Australian citizens being stranded overseas. Bad luck mate - we're in lockdown. 

Which is why a Liberal government not making any move to change the settings on international visitors and travel.

Why isn't the coalition, who are all about the free market, doing everything in its power to open the borders to get all businesses humming and international dollars flowing?

The answer is obvious - because they would risk being smashed at the next election because there is overwhelming  public support for closed borders (again see the polls).

If anything they are going the other way becuase narrow path to victory Scotty is a political animal and he knows the public love nothing more than being kept safe. Lock us down ScoMo.

Do people hate lockdown? Of course

But the evidence that the public support lockdowns to control outbreaks is incontrovertible.

If you have evidence to the contrary i would be interested in seeing it. 

 

On the banning of international travelers, this is a difficult issue that we are not that far apart on. Any Australian citizen should be allowed to return to their own country (If they left prior to Covid). But to be totally honest I don't have much sympathy for people who left the country within the past year who are finding it hard to get home from "hot spots" They should still be allowed to come home unless they test positive prior to travelling.

The quarantine situation is a disaster, as is the overreaction to this virus. Our politicians certainly must think pubic opinion is on their side, as votes will always be the most important issue. 

Agree totally that the Feds have absolutely [censored] up on the messaging on the AZ jab. I would question if any of the Fed ministers have financial connections to the AZ team. It will hurt them bigly come the next election. An own goal for sure.

 Please link your polls as I could not find any in the short search I did.  I also did not claim a majority were against lockdowns. I said opinion is changing.

[binman 37,796]

 

24 minutes ago, faultydet said:

 I also did not claim a majority were against lockdowns. I said opinion is changing.

I didn't suggest you claimed a majority were against lockdown. 

I know you said opinion is changing.

What's your evidence thst opinion is changing.?

Edited June 30, 2021 by binman

[faultydet 7,593]

25 minutes ago, binman said:

 

I know you did.

What's your evidence thst opinion is changing.?

What's yours that it isn't?

[Binmans PA 25,899]

3 hours ago, faultydet said:

Mate, you are a leftist. Everything to the right of MAO is dangerous and divisive to you and your kind. Hence the re-writing of history and re-inventing of words to suit the lefty narrative.

The governments of the world feed on left wing ideology like yours because it ends itself to submitting to government power and control.

Murrays hospital figures are from the State Governments themselves because he asks, unlike the lefty activists at the ABC and Fauxfacts and even some in the Murdoch press who simply regurgitate the lockdown line ad nauseum. Public opinion is turning against lockdowns because most people wont swallow the b.s any longer.

 

 

You realise Fairfax is Channel 9, ie Peter Costello? They ran a multi million dollar Liberal Party fund-raiser in 2019. Are you trying to tell me Fairfax/Nine is 'leftie'?  I suppose Andrew Bolt is a raging leftie too?

Murray is a professional provocateur, just like Bolt and Credlin. They've no interest in facts, they just go on feelings. It's about stirring the pot and getting people riled up. 

Who are the 'leftie' provocateurs? And don't give me that egocentric centrist Waleed.

The Overton Window has Malcolm Turnbull as a 'raging leftie'.

Edited June 30, 2021 by A F

[binman 37,796]

29 minutes ago, faultydet said:

What's yours that it isn't?

Faulty, you made the argument  not me.

I asked for evidence to back up your assertion. 

It is tbe classic strawman play, a favoured trope of peanuts like Murray, to make a big statement that corresponds with their own world view  - and when asked for evidence to back it up , don't provide any, and instead say 'prove me wrong'.

 I rebutted your argument and provided mutiplle examples of evidence to support my argument.

But you have not provided a single piece of evidence to support your argument.

On polling, a quick search and I found this, from a Murdoch site no less:

'But despite the reassurance a lockdown wasn’t imminent, a news.com.au poll of more than 22,000 people shows that the majority of people in Sydney think that we should go into lockdown. Those in Melbourne and interstate are also very keen for it to happen.

https://www.news.com.au/world/coronavirus/australia/australians-seem-happier-to-be-locked-down-than-vaccinated-and-it-makes-no-sense/news-story/4f0b4dbd43b555e8d556f15e8d687f6d

By the by  the article also directly contradicts your claim that most people wont swallow the b.s any longer.

 

 

Edited June 30, 2021 by binman

[titan_uranus 22,220]

Despite Adelaide flying out of SA, the talk is that they are still angling to FIFO to play that game in Adelaide.

So our game vs Port is still on the cards to be in Adelaide I think, at least at this stage, and particularly if that family of positive cases didn't spend time in the community when infectious and as such there are no more cases in SA over the next few days.

[Binmans PA 25,899]

1 hour ago, faultydet said:

On the banning of international travelers, this is a difficult issue that we are not that far apart on. Any Australian citizen should be allowed to return to their own country (If they left prior to Covid). But to be totally honest I don't have much sympathy for people who left the country within the past year who are finding it hard to get home from "hot spots" They should still be allowed to come home unless they test positive prior to travelling.

The quarantine situation is a disaster, as is the overreaction to this virus. Our politicians certainly must think pubic opinion is on their side, as votes will always be the most important issue. 

Agree totally that the Feds have absolutely [censored] up on the messaging on the AZ jab. I would question if any of the Fed ministers have financial connections to the AZ team. It will hurt them bigly come the next election. An own goal for sure.

 Please link your polls as I could not find any in the short search I did.  I also did not claim a majority were against lockdowns. I said opinion is changing.

Yep, Tim Wilson, MP for Goldstein. He and his partner have shares in the company that make AZ. The most corrupt government we've had since the Rum Rebellion.

[Dr. Gonzo 22,399]

3 hours ago, faultydet said:

Paul Murray is brilliant, as is Credlin.

Oh Jesus H Christ ?‍♂️

[Dr. Gonzo 22,399]

2 hours ago, whatwhat say what said:

the vic 2022 election should be interesting - o'brien (or, more likely, his replacement) will undoubtedly make it a 'lockdown election' and the result may give an indication as to what effect the murdoch approach to screaming anti-labor sentiment at every opportunity actually has in reality

It's so disheartening that even something like a global pandemic devolves into a left/right paradigm

[faultydet 7,593]

Paul Murray is the best political media figure in Australia. Peta Credlin is a very close second.

 

 

 

Fancy a leftist bemoaning the politicization of Covid 19. The left, with their media sycophant activist allies have used this new Chinese virus as a wedge in elections all around the world.

People around the western world are tiring of lockdowns. Business killing, mortgage defaulting, wife losing, ineffective political cudgels.

We really do have a majority of super woke lefties on 'Land don't we? Shouldn't be surprised considering most of you live in Danistan.

 

[rjay 23,869]

4 hours ago, binman said:

I asked for evidence to back up your assertion. 

 

2 hours ago, faultydet said:

Paul Murray is the best political media figure in Australia. Peta Credlin is a very close second.

 

 

 

Fancy a leftist bemoaning the politicization of Covid 19. The left, with their media sycophant activist allies have used this new Chinese virus as a wedge in elections all around the world.

People around the western world are tiring of lockdowns. Business killing, mortgage defaulting, wife losing, ineffective political cudgels.

We really do have a majority of super woke lefties on 'Land don't we? Shouldn't be surprised considering most of you live in Danistan.

 

Yep, that's what I call solid evidence...

[Guest]

5 hours ago, faultydet said:

Paul Murray is the best political media figure in Australia. Peta Credlin is a very close second.

 

 

 

Fancy a leftist bemoaning the politicization of Covid 19. The left, with their media sycophant activist allies have used this new Chinese virus as a wedge in elections all around the world.

People around the western world are tiring of lockdowns. Business killing, mortgage defaulting, wife losing, ineffective political cudgels.

We really do have a majority of super woke lefties on 'Land don't we? Shouldn't be surprised considering most of you live in Danistan.

 

FMI

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop

[Bring-Back-Powell 13,106]

I would never in a million years barrack for more cases to pop up in SA over the coming days but if they do, our game against Port will surely be moved.

However, it sounds like further community transmission was unlikely with the existing cases and we’ll be playing over there next week.

Moving the Adelaide squad to VIC was a probably a bit over the top by the AFL considering further transmission is unlikely.