Winger, winger, chicken dinner?!

[Deespicable 2,726]

Correct NeverO, it remains our one list spot where we did not solve in the off-season, although Smith was a good attempt.

VDB, if fit, would be my choice, but I accept that given he can only train twice a week because of his foot issues, he can't really be used in such a demanding running role.

Rosman hopefully develops into that role and he is a left-footer with a tank and he also provides the height balance given Langers is on the small side. All of that makes him on paper the right choice, but he is still a fair way off with his kicking skills and tackling pressure unless we want to rush him along. 

To me there is only one player on our list who is ready to play that role and would add spark to the position and that is Kossie.

I'd also consider a fully fit Viney in that role given he is a leftie and because of our plethora of inside mids. Bit worried about Viney's pace against someone like a Hill or even Hunter but I reckon a few hard tackles by Jack will make any player a little more wary.

[poita 3,902]

37 minutes ago, godees said:

Whilst I was hoping we'd go after Phillips, I suspect it was a salary cap management decision. He would come cheap from a picks perspective but his existing contract may not have been as attractive (with Petracca, Oliver and others coming up for re-contracting).

I think this is the case as well, but it really shouldn't be this way having paid finals once in 14 years.

We all know that our top players are taking up a significant portion of our salary cap, but 3/4 of our current list should be on far less than the AFL average.

We really need to bite the bullet at year end and offload the likes of Vandenberg, Jetta, Jones, Hibberd and Hunt (I know he just signed for two years), whose output is well below their current salary.

[Hellaintabadplacetobe 4,294]

Agree, it was a terrible decision by the club not to resolve this with an established player such as Phillips. We`ve screamed for outside run for years now and we have failed to bring in anyone with the right attributes. Tomlinson was certainly not the answer.

Fritter is probably the best suited but we cant afford to take him out of the forwardline. I think they should give Hunt a go here, he is not ideal but I don`t think he is the answer off halfback.

Left field maybe Rivers.

Just another mindboggling oversight from the club that this hasnt been addressed and now with the manning the mark rule it is even more critical than ever before to get this right.

[Demon3 2,541]

Why not go and get Lewis Jetta for a year while we develop a player.. maybe not but why did we not explore more options.. we have managed to keep AVB, Jetta and Jones on the list, they are simply to slow to play 2021 AFL football, great warriors but they re done, the club couldnt make teh tough decisions and it will cost us.

And when will we hear about adding players to the list.. what more do they need to find out.. i just have a bad feeling about where teh club is at the moment.. hope i am very wrong.

[dazzledavey36 54,889]

5 minutes ago, Demon Dude said:

it also concerns me the club talking up Rosman as a future winger. he was a speculative pick and looks a long way off it at this stage, and i doubt he will ever have the footy smarts to play the role at the level required anyway.

meanwhile we recruit a natural winger in Bowey then decide to play him as a defender.

Yeah look I'll admit I was disappointed with this pick. Jack Carroll who I was a big fan off and had a proven junior record for two years in the WAFL colts as a wingman/half back was ripe for the taking and yet we went for the athlete over the footballer. This to me just seems like a Liam Hulett pick all over again.

Rosman doesn't excite me one bit. The comparisons to Isaac Smith is simply laughable. 

[KingDingAling 3,757]

4 minutes ago, Hell Bent said:

Agree, it was a terrible decision by the club not to resolve this with an established player such as Phillips. We`ve screamed for outside run for years now and we have failed to bring in anyone with the right attributes. Tomlinson was certainly not the answer.

Fritter is probably the best suited but we cant afford to take him out of the forwardline. I think they should give Hunt a go here, he is not ideal but I don`t think he is the answer off halfback.

Left field maybe Rivers.

Just another mindboggling oversight from the club that this hasnt been addressed and now with the manning the mark rule it is even more critical than ever before to get this right.

It’s not left field. Rivers is the most logical answer to our wing solution. He has pace, endurance, skills, smarts, talent, and a willingness to take the game on. He will be one fine winger. I’d put him on the left wing and that way he can drive long kicks down the middle when needed, but also has the precision to spot up leading forwards. Outside of Rivers we have no one else.

[dl4e 5,851]

We can guess who to put on the other wing until we are blue in the face. The club has had the whole summer with my guess they will put Baker there. Is that a solution ? no. You can also take your pick over Rivers, Sparrow, Jones, Bowey, Hunt and even Salem. Is the answer there?

How one longs for a Robert Flower.

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,817]

1 minute ago, dl4e said:

How one longs for a Robert Flower.

Or a Steven Tingay when he was up and going....

[NeveroddoreveN 1,034]

9 minutes ago, Deespicable said:

Correct NeverO, it remains our one list spot where we did not solve in the off-season, although Smith was a good attempt.

VDB, if fit, would be my choice, but I accept that given he can only train twice a week because of his foot issues, he can't really be used in such a demanding running role.

Rosman hopefully develops into that role and he is a left-footer with a tank and he also provides the height balance given Langers is on the small side. All of that makes him on paper the right choice, but he is still a fair way off with his kicking skills and tackling pressure unless we want to rush him along. 

To me there is only one player on our list who is ready to play that role and would add spark to the position and that is Kossie.

I'd also consider a fully fit Viney in that role given he is a leftie and because of our plethora of inside mids. Bit worried about Viney's pace against someone like a Hill or even Hunter but I reckon a few hard tackles by Jack will make any player a little more wary.

i did consider VDB briefly but like you mentioned he can barely cope with training and playing.  His loads are constantly being monitored.

I like the idea of Kossie for leftfield option. It is not like we can't do without him forward at this stage of his career.  A few runs he did from half back breaking lines was exciting enough to see that he could be used in other areas of the ground perhaps like a Liam Ryan type.  He would need to learn the role but could be the answer.  Be nice having Langdon/Kossie pace on either side of ground.  The more i think about it, we need to try him there to find out what he has got.  You know he would have the required pressure and speed for the role.

[dazzledavey36 54,889]

2 minutes ago, dl4e said:

We can guess who to put on the other wing until we are blue in the face. The club has had the whole summer with my guess they will put Baker there. Is that a solution ? no. You can also take your pick over Rivers, Sparrow, Jones, Bowey, Hunt and even Salem. Is the answer there?

How one longs for a Robert Flower.

Salem by far is the obvious choice for me for that wing spot. But get why is needed down back.

[BW511 2,668]

I don't think Salem is a line-breaker, he's good at opening up the game for others with his quick short kicks.

Among a million other things, the club just continually behaves like a small club. As discussed, plenty of other clubs have targeted players and got them. We just don't work hard enough to get the best available in, which is infuriating for supporters who watch Nathan Jones hobble around on a wing

Edited March 9, 2021 by BW511
grammar

[dl4e 5,851]

5 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Salem by far is the obvious choice for me for that wing spot. But get why is needed down back.

Yes I think you are right but he is our best small defender who clears the ball properly.

[Waltham33 475]

23 minutes ago, dl4e said:

Yes I think you are right but he is our best small defender who clears the ball properly.

see yesterday - did we struggle to get the ball out of defence if May didn't predictably boot it 60 metres to Gawn and Jackson

[Wunders 397]

On Philips, it may have been that Collingwood said to the cubs the options are this: 1) you take his full salary and we take a crap draft pick (what happened) or 2) you pay a high draft pick similar to what he is worth and we take some of the contract. For Melbourne they had no cap space and wanted to retain draft picks so didn't chase it up (hypothetical). Plus maybe they decided he was a crap kick and didn't want another in the team.. I personally wanted him opposite Langdon :(.

[58er 6,432]

3 hours ago, NeveroddoreveN said:

Of major concern going into another season we seem to have found no answer for the opposite wing to Langdon. It was only a year ago where we had something like 16 players tried in that position throughout the year.   SO far this year we have rolled through Tmac/Harmes/Sparrow/Jones... none of these guys fills me with any confidence they can play the role for long periods.

We recruited Rosman perhaps for the wing role but it may take him a year or two to find his feet, and he may not be the answer.  Definitely not for the short term anyway.  

We need to find a player that is going to embrace the role and play there for more than few minutes in a game.  I don't believe we will go anywhere if we just have a revolving wing filled by whoever.

We had the chance to address this deficiency during the drafts but it seemed trading Tmac held us up from getting anything done.

Who are the options for this opposite wing?

Bailey Fritsch - runs both ways hard, great mark, lovely kick.  Tackling is probably bit below par but i can see he has many of the attributes needed.  He likes space, it could be a good fit for him.

Harmes/Jones - Putting these guys in same category, they should never be played on a wing, both give very little in terms of offence or for that matter defence.

Tmac - Not sure where his best position is at all these days, he barely looks like an AFL level footballer.

Bowey/Laurie - Not sure either of these guys will be the answer either.  Maybe Bowey but he looks more like a flanker to me.

Baker - Does not seem to have the tank to play the role for long periods.  Works hard to get forward, but does not seem to work nearly as hard going back.  I don't think he is the answer either.

Petracca - Can play mid or forward,  wish we had few more of him.  Could be dynamic wing who helps the connection all over the ground, can win his own ball, can mark, can beat many opponents one on one.  He would be a nightmare match up for any wing.

Oliver- Would be great for the position but he is needed around the ball.  Best to keep him there!

It is a massive conundrum for our coaching staff overall, we can't just keep rolling players through there as stop gaps.  After going through nearly everyone on our list (not all mentioned here) i believe Fritsch and Petracca are our best options.  I would like to see them rotated/switched between our half forward line and wing at around the 50/50 ratio.  Have one of them forward at all times and the other running his guts out up and down the wing.  

We need to get creative and find the answers, any viable solutions that is not going to rob us of too much in other areas of the ground?  What would you do in the coaches position?

As I have already stated to at least 2/3 posters It is robbing Peter to pay ( play) Paul using Fritsch and now our champ Trac. Give me a break.

Fritta is getting about 6 kicks at goal per match and has (As I predicted ) lifted his game all round and conversion rate so take him out of FP,  FF , HFF Or whoever he bobs up and take off 3 goals we are back to 7. No Yrac is not playing his position up forward he is starting on the ball where we can benefit big time.

Trac the winger is just a fantasy as he also kicks valuable goals either resting up forward or on the ball he averages a goal a game. Also takes a valuable back man to boot. We are back to 6 goals !!! From yesterday's score.

Ok let's give them a goal between them on the wing but you can't replace them if both are on our forward  line!

I believe Rosman is the answer and he needs a fast course of just playing there and learning AFL style snd our game plan.

Uesterdsy switching him to the FP did little in terms of his development so that needs to be addressed.

My solution is either Hunt or Salem where we have got some depth at half back and they vould be rotated if necessary.

Other thxn that why not ANB? We can cover his limited goals ( great start from him yesterday but one swallow does not make a summer and he would be busy and run to defence and forward ) I reckon. May need some composure in disposal but would appreciate the wider open spaces of the wing to run and create. 
It will prolong his career in the short term.

[58er 6,432]

1 hour ago, KingDingAling said:

It’s not left field. Rivers is the most logical answer to our wing solution. He has pace, endurance, skills, smarts, talent, and a willingness to take the game on. He will be one fine winger. I’d put him on the left wing and that way he can drive long kicks down the middle when needed, but also has the precision to spot up leading forwards. Outside of Rivers we have no one else.

That's taking Langers ring he needs that fir his kicking also Fobd upset our best winger please. 

[NeveroddoreveN 1,034]

25 minutes ago, Wunders said:

On Philips, it may have been that Collingwood said to the cubs the options are this: 1) you take his full salary and we take a crap draft pick (what happened) or 2) you pay a high draft pick similar to what he is worth and we take some of the contract. For Melbourne they had no cap space and wanted to retain draft picks so didn't chase it up (hypothetical). Plus maybe they decided he was a crap kick and didn't want another in the team.. I personally wanted him opposite Langdon :(.

I would say the real issue was Tmac on 750K+ and nobody even showed interest for half that money.  We move him on i am sure we'd have Phillips. As it stands we are stuck with Tmac for another year, no real wing and to make it all worse we are trying to play Tmac into form for over 2 seasons now. I would expect Goodwin will pick him for most of this season, just hoping he comes good again.  Unfortunately we have another year of underwhelming McDonalds.   Will be rapt if he finds form again fwiw, he is that important to us.  Just can't see it eventuating where he reverts to 2018 form, it has been awhile now!

[58er 6,432]

Just now, 58er said:

That's taking Langers ring he needs that fir his kicking also Fobd upset our best winger please. 

Wing  not ring !!! Pardon my checker !!! 

[58er 6,432]

3 hours ago, BW511 said:

I'll just add, Baker is absolutely useless in the air.

What really kills me is the wings have been a weakness of ours for many, many years now.

I'd argue that a high quality pair of wingers would do more for us structurally than anyone else we have recruited in the last 5 years, maybe bar May.

 

We are heading into 2021 in a worse position than this time last year, so I'd love to know how anyone expects us to be a Top 8, let alone Top 4 team

 

 

 

Bit tough on Lsngers. When he can distance himself and be given the ball he gives us tremendous drive and distance albeit with inconsistent kicking.
 

Rosman long term but ANB needs to be given a chance as he runs all day ( mostly without the ball ) but he tries.

 

[NeveroddoreveN 1,034]

10 minutes ago, 58er said:

As I have already stated to at least 2/3 posters It is robbing Peter to pay ( play) Paul using Fritsch and now our champ Trac. Give me a break.

Fritta is getting about 6 kicks at goal per match and has (As I predicted ) lifted his game all round and conversion rate so take him out of FP,  FF , HFF Or whoever he bobs up and take off 3 goals we are back to 7. No Yrac is not playing his position up forward he is starting on the ball where we can benefit big time.

Trac the winger is just a fantasy as he also kicks valuable goals either resting up forward or on the ball he averages a goal a game. Also takes a valuable back man to boot. We are back to 6 goals !!! From yesterday's score.

Ok let's give them a goal between them on the wing but you can't replace them if both are on our forward  line!

I believe Rosman is the answer and he needs a fast course of just playing there and learning AFL style snd our game plan.

Uesterdsy switching him to the FP did little in terms of his development so that needs to be addressed.

My solution is either Hunt or Salem where we have got some depth at half back and they vould be rotated if necessary.

Other thxn that why not ANB? We can cover his limited goals ( great start from him yesterday but one swallow does not make a summer and he would be busy and run to defence and forward ) I reckon. May need some composure in disposal but would appreciate the wider open spaces of the wing to run and create. 
It will prolong his career in the short term.

I think the reality is that you can't just keep putting Jones/Sparrow/Harmes rotating through a position of huge importance. None have remotely the right skillset for the role.

When suggesting both Fritsch and Petracca,  i realise it not ideal as we do not have other players with their skillsets and they are valuable in other positions, but something has to give, we need to find a solution here from our list.  

ANB could be an option, he definitely has the tank and runs hard both ways. Part that makes this sound appealing is that the HFF role he would vacate could be filled by quite a few others on our list.  

Another option may be Rivers....has a lot of the attributes needed and a fast learner from what i seen so far. Has the kicking skills required to be a decent option anyway!

[Rednblueriseing 824]

3 hours ago, NeveroddoreveN said:

Spot on...i was dismayed we missed out on Isaac.  We did not even seem interested in Phillips who is a walk up start in that position and would make us lot stronger immediately.   We missed the boat on both both these guys.

Baker does not really seem suited to the position.  Maybe a HFF but does not seem a natural for wing position.

Jones being in the team let alone wing is really concerning to me.  All teams are quick nowadays, you can't select too many plodders or you chasing tail all day...like last few times we played WB.  Teams like WB and Port/Brisbane are going to tear us apart with their legspeed all over the ground if we continue to pick our slower/older players.  Going to be a long year!  

Not sure the players believe in Goodwin either, there just seems to be something missing. 

Even more concerning is that we have to park ego's.  Seemed this was always an issue of drinking their own bathwater and putting in a stinker after a win.  We have achieved zilch as a footy team in a very long time.  Achieved nothing with current crop unless you count top 50 players, which we have a sprinkling of.

Our mob needs to get angry to play well, when we are bullying teams and making it all bash and crash we bring the skill levels down and can match it with anyone.  When we are not angry teams just waltz on by. We seem to lack the intensity required over 4 quarters.  We are a laughing stock of a team with some very good players among us....Surely it is time we played like a team that is hungry/angry and doing everything they can to bridge the gap.  

Couldn't agree more, if we don't bring this attitude and win in round 1 we will loose members and we can forget signing Oliver if we have a bad start to the year. Time to be that ruthless footy club we keep talking about. Atm were as ruthless as my nan knitting a scarf 

[58er 6,432]

1 hour ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Yeah look I'll admit I was disappointed with this pick. Jack Carroll who I was a big fan off and had a proven junior record for two years in the WAFL colts as a wingman/half back was ripe for the taking and yet we went for the athlete over the footballer. This to me just seems like a Liam Hulett pick all over again.

Rosman doesn't excite me one bit. The comparisons to Isaac Smith is simply laughable. 

I'll excuse you both on your criticism of Rosman who you havent seen enough of at 2 practice games at 18/19 years of age and maybe  a practice run. Comparisons are interesting based on speculation but I can say you both would be at 33 completely different than at 19yrs in life and footy. 
 

Let's also see how Carroll goes at Carlton I think! And if it's on a wing! 

 

 

[58er 6,432]

5 minutes ago, NeveroddoreveN said:

I think the reality is that you can't just keep putting Jones/Sparrow/Harmes rotating through a position of huge importance. None have remotely the right skillset for the role.

When suggesting both Fritsch and Petracca,  i realise it not ideal as we do not have other players with their skillsets and they are valuable in other positions, but something has to give, we need to find a solution here from our list.  

ANB could be an option, he definitely has the tank and runs hard both ways. Part that makes this sound appealing is that the HFF role he would vacate could be filled by quite a few others on our list.  

Another option may be Rivers....has a lot of the attributes needed and a fast learner from what i seen so far. Has the kicking skills required to be a decent option anyway!

Let's leave a Riv get his training wheels off this year before we ruin him!!! 

[dazzledavey36 54,889]

4 minutes ago, 58er said:

I'll excuse you both on your criticism of Rosman who you havent seen enough of at 2 practice games at 18/19 years of age and maybe  a practice run. Comparisons are interesting based on speculation but I can say you both would be at 33 completely different than at 19yrs in life and footy. 
 

Let's also see how Carroll goes at Carlton I think! And if it's on a wing! 

 

 

I've seen enough of Carroll to know he'll play games this year and have a solid career. Carroll was close to BOG in their practice match last practice game.

I watched Rosman last week and he would have been lucky to touch the ball 5 times throughout the match.

[58er 6,432]

3 hours ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Tomlinson to the wing which is why we threw a 4 year contract at him. He played an outstanding prelim final in 2017 on a wing and did have a 34 possession game last year against Hawthorn in the Marsh series.

Petty to take Tomlinson's role in defence.

Baker to play at Casey.

Fritsch to have a tracking device on his ankle that goes off every time he leaves the forward 50 metre ark. He's our only legit forward option in the early rounds and must stay there.

 

Love your Fritta phrase. Yes he is a wonderful player for us and kicking strsighter now with more confidence.

Wait till we get our full forward structure with BBB and  Kossie maybe Weid.

Fritta will kick 60 goals this season all from inside the arc sans tracking device.