On 12/8/2020 at 6:06 PM, Frustrated Demon said:

Holy [censored] I thought it was April 1st. Awesome get. Heard him on the radio the other week. Left me thinking to myself that we need him....good job MFC

said to my mum three weeks ago my choice of coach at Melbourne would be Chocco.

Brilliant news.  Cant believe it, have just now heard it.  Great work to whoever pulled those strings.

Can't wait for everything to come together next year so that everyone here can say it was all the work of Williams and Yze. Goody is on a hiding to nothing.

2 hours ago, A F said:

I thought he was midfield?

Yeah, maybe he was midfield and strategy at Hawthorn....

Williams said his initial focus will be on the 1-3 year players. 

Macca did a very good job with the 2014-2016 recruits.  A perfect time for him to arrive for Choco to arrive.  Jackson, Kozzie, Rivers, Bowey, Laurie and Rosman are going to love learning from him. 

We addressed our small fwd and wingman needs last night.  No gaps on the list.  Yes, always room for improvement but not gaps. 

We now have our premiership list.  Time to make it happen!

22 hours ago, jnrmac said:

Very happy with this appointment but still very concerned about how much baby sitting we have to provide for Goodwin who has essentially failed in his role.

Everywhere Neil Balme baby sits wins a premiership.

8 hours ago, Cheesy D. Pun said:

Can't wait for everything to come together next year so that everyone here can say it was all the work of Williams and Yze. Goody is on a hiding to nothing.

I don’t rate Goodwin.

But maybe he hasn’t had the right team around him. Maybe now his strengths (not sure what they are but presumably he has some) will shine through and he can lead us to a flag. It’s not possible to win it with a dud coach so if he does lead us to the promised land, I’ll gladly change my opinion and heap credit and adulation at his feet. I’ve never wished to be more wrong about anything.

4 hours ago, Wrecker45 said:

Everywhere Neil Balme baby sits wins a premiership.

Not at Melbourne....

6 hours ago, Better days ahead said:

I don’t rate Goodwin.

But maybe he hasn’t had the right team around him. Maybe now his strengths (not sure what they are but presumably he has some) will shine through and he can lead us to a flag. It’s not possible to win it with a dud coach so if he does lead us to the promised land, I’ll gladly change my opinion and heap credit and adulation at his feet. I’ve never wished to be more wrong about anything.

Fair enough.

Outside of results, I'm really not sure how people here judge the coaches without seeing what happens on a day to day basis.

If results are the main component then Hardwick spent seven years as one of the worst coaches in the game.

The only thing I see with Goodwin is a coach that the players love and play for. That's enough to build around from my perspective.

 

47 minutes ago, Cheesy D. Pun said:

Outside of results, I'm really not sure how people here judge the coaches without seeing what happens on a day to day basis.

i don't whether he listens to the other coaches or not, whether he stubborn, whether he's innovative or not. All i know is results have been sub-par during his 4 years in charge. Other than a flukey run to the prelim in 18, which turned out to be a mirage, we have been consistently inconsistent, incapable of beating the top sides and miss finals. If the head coach isn't responsible then who is?

Edited December 10, 20204 yr by Better days ahead

43 minutes ago, Better days ahead said:

i don't whether he listens to the other coaches or not, whether he stubborn, whether he's innovative or not. All i know is results have been sub-par during his 4 years in charge. Other than a flukey run to the prelim in 18, which turned out to be a mirage, we have been consistently inconsistent, incapable of beating the top sides and miss finals. If the head coach isn't responsible then who is?

So, after four seasons, you would have removed Hardwick?

What factors other than results can we look to, so that we make sure we're not jumping at shadows?

It's true that the head coach has a high level of responsibility but he's not the only influence on results.

At risk of overdoing the Richmond comparison, where does the credit for their success lie? If I had to give a percentage, I'd say that less than 50% belongs to the coach.

I'm not really here to defend Goodwin, but I do question the idea that he is an 'awful' coach (or a great one for that matter) based on the information presented.

Those that want Yze as senior coach equally seem to be making a blind assertion about his ability.

On CV alone, you'd take Neeld over Yze at the same point in their careers which is evidence that being sure about a coaches ability without any inside knowledge, is ludicrous.

There are some pretty compelling precedence (Geelong and Richmond come to mind) for holding our nerve. Our constant and well demonstrated impatience as a football club could be our greatest weakness.

41 minutes ago, Cheesy D. Pun said:

So, after four seasons, you would have removed Hardwick?

What factors other than results can we look to, so that we make sure we're not jumping at shadows?

It's true that the head coach has a high level of responsibility but he's not the only influence on results.

At risk of overdoing the Richmond comparison, where does the credit for their success lie? If I had to give a percentage, I'd say that less than 50% belongs to the coach.

I'm not really here to defend Goodwin, but I do question the idea that he is an 'awful' coach (or a great one for that matter) based on the information presented.

Those that want Yze as senior coach equally seem to be making a blind assertion about his ability.

On CV alone, you'd take Neeld over Yze at the same point in their careers which is evidence that being sure about a coaches ability without any inside knowledge, is ludicrous.

There are some pretty compelling precedence (Geelong and Richmond come to mind) for holding our nerve. Our constant and well demonstrated impatience as a football club could be our greatest weakness.

Hardwick was playing finals. Goodwin isn’t. 4 years is enough time to imprint your personality and style on a group. Our style is chaotic and disconnected. And inconsistent.

There is no other factor that matters other than results. We’re not a young developing team. We are finals ready and have been since 2017.

Comparisons to other teams is not a basis for holding unto a coach but if you insist then I suggest we’re more similar to St Kilda before they removed Richardson. Ratton is doing a much better job.

You’re entitled to your opinion but I reckon we’d have a better chance of success with someone like Ross Lyon at the helm.

If he does win it I’ll eat humble pie but unfortunately I don’t think it will come to that.

3 hours ago, Better days ahead said:

i don't whether he listens to the other coaches or not, whether he stubborn, whether he's innovative or not. All i know is results have been sub-par during his 4 years in charge. Other than a flukey run to the prelim in 18, which turned out to be a mirage, we have been consistently inconsistent, incapable of beating the top sides and miss finals. If the head coach isn't responsible then who is?

At yet in 4 seasons 3 of those the team has had winning years, we missed 1  finals season by the smallest percentage  margin in history,, and the other by half a game, but if  and buts where buts and if,  Goodwin could be the best coach  of all time. 

2 hours ago, Cheesy D. Pun said:

It's true that the head coach has a high level of responsibility but he's not the only influence on results.

The players at their disposal might have more than a little to do with it.

1 hour ago, Better days ahead said:

We are finals ready

This is the delusion upon which the "Goodwin can't coach" edifice is built. We're a mid-table team getting mid-table results. Heck, we don't even have a functioning forward line, or the players to form one - you only have to look at who we've drafted/traded this year to see that that's something that the club recognises. Even if there are those on here who don't.

4 minutes ago, bing181 said:

This is the delusion upon which the "Goodwin can't coach" edifice is built. We're a mid-table team getting mid-table results. Heck, we don't even have a functioning forward line, or the players to form one - you only have to look at who we've drafted/traded this year to see that that's something that the club recognises. Even if there are those on here who don't.

What delusion? 

Win one of the Freo or Sydney games this year in Cairns and we play finals. Do you think we were capable of winning one of those games?

beat Collingwood in 2017 or even a close defeat and we play finals. remember Collingwood had nothing to play for. do you think we were capable of winning that game?

How long should a rebuild go on for?

There's blame to go around. the players for sure haven;t turned up at important times but the coach is responsible for the performances on the oval. That is his job and he has failed for 3 of the last 4 years. 

I hope i'm wrong and he does a Hardwick. I'm not betting on it though.

53 minutes ago, bing181 said:

This is the delusion upon which the "Goodwin can't coach" edifice is built. We're a mid-table team getting mid-table results. Heck, we don't even have a functioning forward line, or the players to form one - you only have to look at who we've drafted/traded this year to see that that's something that the club recognises. Even if there are those on here who don't.

With higher kicking efficiency we would be a Top 4 side. 
i am staggered that kicking is not a number one priority at every training session. How often do we give up the ball through bad kicking, after working 110% to get it...?

Choco helping Fritsch will net us another 1-2 goals, alone, a game (such was his inaccuracy from his opportunities)

46 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

With higher kicking efficiency we would be a Top 4 side. 
i am staggered that kicking is not a number one priority at every training session. How often do we give up the ball through bad kicking, after working 110% to get it...?

I agree with a fair portion of this but would just add that kicking doesn't happen in a vacuum.

I don't subscribe to the notion that we are a side full of poor kicks. We have some very good kicks in our team. 

Decision-making, agility and confidence all play a part but the structure ahead of the ball is also a huge factor.

If you have a fair idea of how things are going to look ahead of you, the likelihood of you making the kick is that much greater.

We need a forward line. We've targeted players to help fix this issue and hopefully we see some improvement in 2021.

You often hear commentary around the need for players to lower their eyes but that's only useful if the forward setup is working.

Unless its a very clear hit up kick, those short kicks inside 50 are a gift to the opposition, feeding their ability to launch from the back.

Edited December 10, 20204 yr by Cheesy D. Pun

5 minutes ago, Cheesy D. Pun said:

I agree with a fair portion of this but would just add that kicking doesn't happen in a vacuum.

I don't subscribe to the notion that we are a side full of poor kicks. We have some very good kicks in our team. 

Decision-making, agility and confidence all play a part but the structure ahead of the ball is also a huge factor.

If you have a fair idea of how things are going to look ahead of you, the likelihood of you making the kick is that much greater.

We need a forward line. We've targeted players to help fix this issue and hopefully we see some improvement in 2021.

You often hear commentary around the need for players to lower their eyes but that's only useful if the forward setup is working.

Unless its a very clear hit up kick, those short kicks inside 50 are a gift to the opposition, feeding their ability to launch from the back.

Fair call Cheesy, but our kicking efficiency around the ground has let us down badly under Goodwin. 
i can never question the endeavor over the last 4 years, but so often we give up the ball with bad kicks

4 hours ago, Better days ahead said:

Hardwick was playing finals. Goodwin isn’t. 4 years is enough time to imprint your personality and style on a group. Our style is chaotic and disconnected. And inconsistent.

There is no other factor that matters other than results. We’re not a young developing team. We are finals ready and have been since 2017.

Comparisons to other teams is not a basis for holding unto a coach but if you insist then I suggest we’re more similar to St Kilda before they removed Richardson. Ratton is doing a much better job.

You’re entitled to your opinion but I reckon we’d have a better chance of success with someone like Ross Lyon at the helm.

If he does win it I’ll eat humble pie but unfortunately I don’t think it will come to that.

I believe Hardwick made finals in his 4th year of coaching & there was plenty of angst amongst Richmond supporters regarding his coaching . He had plenty of “ups & downs”. I think Goodwin deserves 2021 before he is judged  quite so harshly...

23 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Williams said his initial focus will be on the 1-3 year players. 

Macca did a very good job with the 2014-2016 recruits.  A perfect time for him to arrive for Choco to arrive.  Jackson, Kozzie, Rivers, Bowey, Laurie and Rosman are going to love learning from him. 

We addressed our small fwd and wingman needs last night.  No gaps on the list.  Yes, always room for improvement but not gaps. 

We now have our premiership list.  Time to make it happen!

Lol ok

8 hours ago, Deestar9 said:

I believe Hardwick made finals in his 4th year of coaching & there was plenty of angst amongst Richmond supporters regarding his coaching . He had plenty of “ups & downs”. I think Goodwin deserves 2021 before he is judged  quite so harshly...

Fair enough Deestar.

He’s in situ so gotta make the best of it. I genuinely hope he does well.

I’ve decided to take a vow of silence on Goodwin until about round 5. No point ranting when pre-season has barely started.

22 hours ago, Better days ahead said:

the coach is responsible for the performances on the oval.

So Alistair Clarkson is responsible for Hawthorn finishing 15th this year.

 

 

At least Pert gets it:

“While it's driven through the whole football program, it will be a very big focus and it’s a priority of our program, of the players taking real ownership.

“They’ve got to own it, they’ve got to drive it, they’ve got to hold each other accountable.

Edited December 11, 20204 yr by bing181

12 minutes ago, bing181 said:

So Alistair Clarkson is responsible for Hawthorn finishing 15th this year.

 

 

Is this supposed to be a trick question?

Do you think Clarkson was a factor in the Hawks winning 4 flags?