An Uncomfortable Read

[rjay 24,916]

Just read this from the ABC site...well written, extremely challenging & eye opening.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-05/heritier-lumumba-strength-in-african-culture-collingwood-afl/12820942

[Half forward flank 1,022]

Very happy he has found happiness. However lets remember his Angolan father abandoned him for 13 years and his stepfather O Brien helped raised him. I just think regardless of nationality this bloke is fairly obsessed with himself and thats how he played footy as well, little defence and all eye catching play. 

[Cards13 9,117]

9 minutes ago, Half forward flank said:

Very happy he has found happiness. However lets remember his Angolan father abandoned him for 13 years and his stepfather O Brien helped raised him. I just think regardless of nationality this bloke is fairly obsessed with himself and thats how he played footy as well, little defence and all eye catching play. 

What has his father leaving got to do with him finding and embracing his history and culture and his racist experiences at Collingwood and the turning of people opinions of him because he is outspoken? 

[Half forward flank 1,022]

1 minute ago, Cards13 said:

What has his father leaving got to do with him finding and embracing his history and culture and his racist experiences at Collingwood and the turning of people opinions of him because he is outspoken? 

If you do not know what effect a father leaving, abandoning a young kid in a very foreign country has on a person then you need to learn a bit more before criticizing me. I did not say anything about him being outspoken or the fact some racists turned on him..

[rjay 24,916]

31 minutes ago, Half forward flank said:

Very happy he has found happiness. However lets remember his Angolan father abandoned him for 13 years and his stepfather O Brien helped raised him. I just think regardless of nationality this bloke is fairly obsessed with himself and thats how he played footy as well, little defence and all eye catching play. 

I read this totally differently to you.

I was embarrassed about some of the opinions I had of him based on some pretty biased reporting.

It reminded me of how all encompassing & powerful the AFL brand/bubble is.

All the rhetoric coming from the AFL & Collingwood is just that.

They/we have a long, long way to go.

20 minutes ago, Half forward flank said:

If you do not know what effect a father leaving, abandoning a young kid in a very foreign country has on a person then you need to learn a bit more before criticizing me. I did not say anything about him being outspoken or the fact some racists turned on him..

...and yet you remark about him being self obsessed. Is it any wonder...

I would say he's very introspective & has been trying to find his place in the world. Unfortunately he's been let down along the way, firstly by his father & then by other authority figures who should know better...Bucks, Eddie & Gill to name a few. 

[3183 Dee 2,853]

1 hour ago, rjay said:

Just read this from the ABC site...well written, extremely challenging & eye opening.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-05/heritier-lumumba-strength-in-african-culture-collingwood-afl/12820942

Wow! What a fantastic and enthralling  article - thanks for sharing it ??

[Half forward flank 1,022]

9 minutes ago, rjay said:

I read this totally differently to you.

I was embarrassed about some of the opinions I had of him based on some pretty biased reporting.

It reminded me of how all encompassing & powerful the AFL brand/bubble is.

All the rhetoric coming from the AFL & Collingwood is just that.

They/we have a long, long way to go.

...and yet you remark about him being self obsessed. Is it any wonder...

I would say he's very introspective & has been trying to find his place in the world. Unfortunately he's been let down along the way, firstly by his father & then by other authority figures who should know better...Bucks, Eddie & Gill to name a few. 

Happy to discuss. I am no fan of the AFL bubble or Club management. I believe there has been appalling racism in the game for far to long. My comment on him being self obsessed could be as a result of his upbringing and journey of self or it could be a personality trait. Personality traits have nothing to do with your ethnic origins or where your family came from. They are consisetent across ethnicity. 

[DeeSpencer 25,671]

I’ll remember him as a failed recruit who we didn’t mentally screen properly who promptly invented concussions to get a retirement pay out. 
 

He was the AFLs first multicultural ambassador and lauded by the Prime Minister. 
 

No doubt he was the victim of things at Collingwood and the media turned on him but geez he was keen to play the martyr. 
 

The mainstream footy media do like doing the league and big clubs bidding for them but not nearly as much as left wing journos love a sob story. He’s a footballer who took too many magic mushrooms, he isn’t actually Patrice Lumumba.

[rjay 24,916]

25 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

The mainstream footy media do like doing the league and big clubs bidding for them but not nearly as much as left wing journos love a sob story.

I would think your first point is most definitely right.

I'm not so sure that Russell Jackson is a left wing journo.

I don't know anything about him but he has written some very good articles of late.

[DeeSpencer 25,671]

6 minutes ago, rjay said:

I would think your first point is most definitely right.

I'm not so sure that Russell Jackson is a left wing journo.

I don't know anything about him but he has written some very good articles of late.

Having followed him and a loyal band of fawning followers on twitter for a long time I can say he's a classic champagne socialist. He's a very good writer who was nearly lost to journalism but with both this story and the Muir piece I think he's been overly flattering of the subject. 

Robbie Muir belted the living daylights out of a lot of people, it's ok to include some reflection of that in a huge piece about him. Lumumba has more than a healthy ego and did revel in the publicity and his justification to not taking part in the inquiry about him seems way too weak to me. You have to really buy in to every part of his story if you're going to let that slide.

 

[Cranky Franky 2,049]

2 hours ago, Half forward flank said:

Very happy he has found happiness. However lets remember his Angolan father abandoned him for 13 years and his stepfather O Brien helped raised him. I just think regardless of nationality this bloke is fairly obsessed with himself and thats how he played footy as well, little defence and all eye catching play. 

Yes exactly.  Harry is finding out a few truths.  Racism is a human condition found everywhere and life can be complicated and unfair.

The article notes that his father left Angola to escape a brutal civil war.  Harry is probably lucky he didn't grow up in Angola.

[rjay 24,916]

28 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

his justification to not taking part in the inquiry about him seems way too weak to me.

I'm with him on this one...

I don't see any reason for an inquiry, it's an Eddie snow job.

Don't want to own up, set up an enquiry and muddy the waters, a classic political ploy.

Collingwood should have done what St Kilda had the courage to do and just own up & apologise.

[jumbo returns 6,741]

White supremacist thinking is alive and well....what the [censored] is a 'classic champagne socialist'?

Edited December 5, 2020 by jumbo returns

[dieter 3,325]

1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

Having followed him and a loyal band of fawning followers on twitter for a long time I can say he's a classic champagne socialist. He's a very good writer who was nearly lost to journalism but with both this story and the Muir piece I think he's been overly flattering of the subject. 

Robbie Muir belted the living daylights out of a lot of people, it's ok to include some reflection of that in a huge piece about him. Lumumba has more than a healthy ego and did revel in the publicity and his justification to not taking part in the inquiry about him seems way too weak to me. You have to really buy in to every part of his story if you're going to let that slide.

 

You obviously missed the whole point about the Muir story. To understand it, you might need to buy a few grams of a concept called 'the ability to walk ten yards in another person's shoes'. Probably not on your shopping list. 

And it's obviously not very kosher to be black and have a healthy ego. 

Muddle on, as the song goes, muddle on...

[Half forward flank 1,022]

2 hours ago, rjay said:

I'm with him on this one...

I don't see any reason for an inquiry, it's an Eddie snow job.

Don't want to own up, set up an enquiry and muddy the waters, a classic political ploy.

Collingwood should have done what St Kilda had the courage to do and just own up & apologise.

eddie, his wife and collingwood do a lot of work with Indigenous australians.

[BDA 22,742]

Nathan and Eddie’s judgment has been shown to be very suspect and they got the Lumumba response wrong as well. They nick named the bloke chimp for God’s sake. There’s no defending that. The right course of action would be a mea culpa and a genuine attempt to atone and try to be better in the future. Lumumba is right to call them out.

I think he's over reaching just a tad when he says things like ”My name is a symbol of black power and revolution, and ties me to the spirit of great men such as Malcolm X, Muhammad Ali and Patrice Lumumba”. He aint any of those. 

And I’m glad he found solace in his identify and re-connected with his Congolese roots. So much so that he’s decided to move to……..Los Angeles?

[sue 9,101]

1 hour ago, jumbo returns said:

White supremacist thinking is alive and well....what the [censored] is a 'classic champagne socialist'?

Surely you know it is a put-down for a well-off person who is a socialist. Whereas if a poorer person is a socialist he is just full of envy.  They've got you either way.

Edited December 5, 2020 by sue

[jumbo returns 6,741]

20 minutes ago, Half forward flank said:

eddie, his wife and collingwood do a lot of work with Indigenous australians.

Yes, yes, more white fella chest beating

[DeeSpencer 25,671]

1 hour ago, dieter said:

You obviously missed the whole point about the Muir story. To understand it, you might need to buy a few grams of a concept called 'the ability to walk ten yards in another person's shoes'. Probably not on your shopping list. 

And it's obviously not very kosher to be black and have a healthy ego. 

Muddle on, as the song goes, muddle on...

The Muir story was mostly great, especially the way it outlined how footy has failed him and all the background of the abuse. The way it outlined the cycle of destructive behaviour was a must read. It was just missing one part.

Lots or room for ego, but where are Lumumba’s friends? The people most interested in his story are those who are invested in to buying what he’s selling.

If you’re going to lecture an entire country then don’t move across the world to a country with a worse racial history.

[BDA 22,742]

1 hour ago, jumbo returns said:

White supremacist thinking is alive and well

Can you elaborate a little on this remark and explain what white supremacist thinking has been displayed in this thread?

[jumbo returns 6,741]

16 minutes ago, Better days ahead said:

Can you elaborate a little on this remark and explain what white supremacist thinking has been displayed in this thread?

Nope

You’d never understand

[rpfc 28,380]

So many in this thread really betraying their ignorance. Speaking of an experience with such certainty that isn’t yours to do so. 
 

An uncomfortable read indeed.

[Half forward flank 1,022]

15 minutes ago, rpfc said:

So many in this thread really betraying their ignorance. Speaking of an experience with such certainty that isn’t yours to do so. 
 

An uncomfortable read indeed.

How so and whom do you speak of...

[Cranky Franky 2,049]

1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

The Muir story was mostly great, especially the way it outlined how footy has failed him and all the background of the abuse. The way it outlined the cycle of destructive behaviour was a must read. It was just missing one part.

Lots or room for ego, but where are Lumumba’s friends? The people most interested in his story are those who are invested in to buying what he’s selling.

If you’re going to lecture an entire country then don’t move across the world to a country with a worse racial history.

Agree 100%. The Muir story was mostly terrific & his background was sad & tragic & he was let down by the AFL & by footy clubs but it skips over & ignores any blame Muir himself had in the matter.

I watched Muir belt players left, right & centre including direct opponents & players a long way off the ball. He was genuinely scary & did serious damage.

 

[daisycutter 29,612]

37 minutes ago, rpfc said:

So many in this thread really betraying their ignorance. Speaking of an experience with such certainty that isn’t yours to do so. 
 

An uncomfortable read indeed.

didn't you know, rpfc, that there are more expert sociologists on demonland than any other fora