43 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

Just to be clear: you have no evidence, only your opinion, that we're paying Viney more than Geelong offered him.

Of course not, this is an opinion piece site. However you have no answer to the fact our List Managers have paid a full or near full equivelant salary cap to players of a lesser quality than the likes of Richmond, Hawks, West Coast and others for the past 20 years. We are not in a Premiership window and have a tight money squeeze ahead.

43 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

Just to be clear: you have no evidence, only your opinion, that we're paying Viney more than Geelong offered him.

We are without doubt paying more than what Geelong would have!  He would have got offered maybe 500K max to play down at the cattery.   He was on over 600K with us on his last contract i am sure this one would be similar.  Geelong don't overpay their players....I would also say that Tom Hawkins is on similar money to Tmac, maybe even less :P

I agree with what other posters have said in relation to needing a player to replace Preuss as opposed to just a draft pick. One of the areas we need some cover aside from key forwards and another wing, which we already seem to have targets for, si another half back/small defender. Jetta seems to have hit the wall and Hibberd isn't getting any younger, so this is something we should target.

Sadly GWS don't have any obvious candidates that come to mind, but a team they they'll be trading with (St Kilda) certainly have a few.

I wouldn't mind seeing us send Preuss to GWS and Pick 47 to St Kilda.  GWS send Pick 39 to us and Caldwell to St Kilda. St. Kilda send Pick 14 to GWS and Jimmy Webster to us.

Improves our draft hand slightly and Webster would walk straight into our back pocket/half back flank position. Hasn't played a heap in the last two years due to injury, but his numbers are all good. Good turn of pace and kicks it nicely, plus with St Kilda developing the likes of Hunter Clark, Nick Coffield and Geary still going, he's a surplus to their requirements.

 

 

Bit of a long one, bear with me here mates...

GWS only have picks 40, 46, 68 82 (etc) at this stage this year. With a few players already possibly on the way out and maybe more to come, I think they're expecting a few earlier picks to come in yet (trade and FA compo). Given we're in a similar-ish situation draft pick wise, I wonder if we'd consider shipping off Preuss and a pick to get one (or more) of the earlier picks GWS will have come in?

The trade currency required for Brown would still have to be considered, but we could look at giving them a future pick given they're in a world of hurt atm.

It's almost always a complicated big picture by the end, but if we could do the following, I'd consider it a win:

OUT: Preuss, Pick 23, ANB, Hunt, OMac, TMac, 2021 2nd round pick

IN: Pick 9 (GWS compo), Ben Brown, Isaac Smith (FA), Pick 20-25ish (after a mess of trading players and picks for points), Pick 44 (ANB to Crows)

Draft wise leaves us with 9, 20-25, and some picks around 40-50 (which obviously may be pushed back a little this year).

Pick 9 opens up the option of players like Archie Perkins, Finlay Macrae or Nikolas Cox, all of whom would fill needs (eventually) for us.

Edited October 13, 20204 yr by Lord Nev

50 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Bit of a long one, bear with me here mates...

GWS only have picks 40, 46, 68 82 (etc) at this stage this year. With a few players already possibly on the way out and maybe more to come, I think they're expecting a few earlier picks to come in yet (trade and FA compo). Given we're in a similar-ish situation draft pick wise, I wonder if we'd consider shipping off Preuss and a pick to get one (or more) of the earlier picks GWS will have come in?

The trade currency required for Brown would still have to be considered, but we could look at giving them a future pick given they're in a world of hurt atm.

It's almost always a complicated big picture by the end, but if we could do the following, I'd consider it a win:

OUT: Preuss, Pick 23, ANB, Hunt, OMac, TMac, 2021 2nd round pick

IN: Pick 9 (GWS compo), Ben Brown, Isaac Smith (FA), Pick 20-25ish (after a mess of trading players and picks for points), Pick 44 (ANB to Crows)

Draft wise leaves us with 9, 20-25, and some picks around 40-50 (which obviously may be pushed back a little this year).

Pick 9 opens up the option of players like Archie Perkins, Finlay Macrae or Nikolas Cox, all of whom would fill needs (eventually) for us.

LN are you saying we will get pick 9 for Preuess? Not going to happen second round at best for an average ruckman.

56 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

 

OUT: Preuss, Pick 23, ANB, Hunt, OMac, TMac, 2021 2nd round pick

IN: Pick 9 (GWS compo), Ben Brown, Isaac Smith (FA), Pick 20-25ish (after a mess of trading players and picks for points), Pick 44 (ANB to Crows)

Ahhhh the old load up a bunch of nothing and come out with a top 10 pick trade. Not going to happen in a million years.

9 minutes ago, old dee said:

LN are you saying we will get pick 9 for Preuess? Not going to happen second round at best for an average ruckman.

No, I'm saying maybe Preuss and pick 23 for the GWS compo pick for Williams, which I think will be pick 9.

3 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Ahhhh the old load up a bunch of nothing and come out with a top 10 pick trade. Not going to happen in a million years.

Pick 23 and Preuss for pick 9.

Future 2nd rounder for Brown.

ANB for pick 44.

Complicated combination of player and pick trades that mean we turn OMac, TMac, Hunt and some pick swapping into a 2nd round pick.

Not sure how you think that's so ridiculous tbh.

2 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

No, I'm saying maybe Preuss and pick 23 for the GWS compo pick for Williams, which I think will be pick 9.

Ok !

14 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Pick 23 and Preuss for pick 9.

Future 2nd rounder for Brown.

ANB for pick 44.

Complicated combination of player and pick trades that mean we turn OMac, TMac, Hunt and some pick swapping into a 2nd round pick.

Not sure how you think that's so ridiculous tbh.

Last year: 

Pick 8 —— Future first, 26, 50

This year:

Pick 9 —— 23, Preuss.

You’re valuing Preuss as the same value as a future first, or at least an early second. That’s far too high. 

1 minute ago, DeeSpencer said:

Last year: 

Pick 8 —— Future first, 26, 50

This year:

Pick 9 —— 23, Preuss.

You’re valuing Preuss as the same value as a future first, or at least an early second. That’s far too high. 

Of course it does depend on how badly GWS want him, if they are desperate for A ready made ruckman they may be prepared to pay overs to get him.

1 hour ago, Lord Nev said:

Bit of a long one, bear with me here mates...

GWS only have picks 40, 46, 68 82 (etc) at this stage this year. With a few players already possibly on the way out and maybe more to come, I think they're expecting a few earlier picks to come in yet (trade and FA compo). Given we're in a similar-ish situation draft pick wise, I wonder if we'd consider shipping off Preuss and a pick to get one (or more) of the earlier picks GWS will have come in?

The trade currency required for Brown would still have to be considered, but we could look at giving them a future pick given they're in a world of hurt atm.

It's almost always a complicated big picture by the end, but if we could do the following, I'd consider it a win:

OUT: Preuss, Pick 23, ANB, Hunt, OMac, TMac, 2021 2nd round pick

IN: Pick 9 (GWS compo), Ben Brown, Isaac Smith (FA), Pick 20-25ish (after a mess of trading players and picks for points), Pick 44 (ANB to Crows)

Draft wise leaves us with 9, 20-25, and some picks around 40-50 (which obviously may be pushed back a little this year).

Pick 9 opens up the option of players like Archie Perkins, Finlay Macrae or Nikolas Cox, all of whom would fill needs (eventually) for us.

I would be very happy with this, or a similar outcome. Like the thought of Macrae in the team.

Edited October 13, 20204 yr by Dees247

3 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Last year: 

Pick 8 —— Future first, 26, 50

This year:

Pick 9 —— 23, Preuss.

You’re valuing Preuss as the same value as a future first, or at least an early second. That’s far too high. 

 

Sure, you could make that comparison if it was the same trade, but it's not. And you're ignoring all the context (from Freo's perspective) around why that deal was done.

Also, didn't the deal end up being:

Pick 8 -- Pick 10, 28, and a 4th rounder.

Which would mean (if you really want to compare to completely contextually different trades)

Preuss = 28 and 60ish

I love trade time.

I imagine Mahoney walking in to the Telstra Dome, calling a bunch of the over managers into a room together and announcing:

"A bit of a long one but bear with me here everyone..."

 

 

 

If Mahoney can turn Preuss and 23 into pick 9 he is a genius. We’ll be lucky if we get a pick inside 30. 

51 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

 

Sure, you could make that comparison if it was the same trade, but it's not. And you're ignoring all the context (from Freo's perspective) around why that deal was done.

Also, didn't the deal end up being:

Pick 8 -- Pick 10, 28, and a 4th rounder.

Which would mean (if you really want to compare to completely contextually different trades)

Preuss = 28 and 60ish

You’re talking about the Freo deal that’s irrelevant.

Im talking about the North deal that got pick 8 to begin with.

To get that pick from North we had to offer a future first that easily could’ve been top 5 if things went badly and throw in a second and third. 

Now you’re saying GWS would part with 9 for pick 23 and a journeyman ruck. It doesn’t add up. 

10 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

You’re talking about the Freo deal that’s irrelevant.

Im talking about the North deal that got pick 8 to begin with.

To get that pick from North we had to offer a future first that easily could’ve been top 5 if things went badly and throw in a second and third. 

Now you’re saying GWS would part with 9 for pick 23 and a journeyman ruck. It doesn’t add up. 

Ah ok, so only the scenario you want to use is relevant... Go it.

(I was talking about what the deal ended up being in the end btw)

Guess we'll see how it plays out.

13 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Ah ok, so only the scenario you want to use is relevant... Go it.

(I was talking about what the deal ended up being in the end btw)

Guess we'll see how it plays out.

The overall deal doesn't matter in terms of getting pick 9 from the Giants. We can't say to them we plan on further trading this pick so please give it to us for less now. 

Here's another one, in 2015 the Dogs and Blues traded

Pick 11 and a future 3rd  FOR Picks 20 and 21. 

Slice it and dice it any way you want I just don't see how pick 9 goes to pick 23 without something very juicy included. And I'm not counting big juicy Preussy. 

1 minute ago, DeeSpencer said:

The overall deal doesn't matter in terms of getting pick 9 from the Giants. We can't say to them we plan on further trading this pick so please give it to us for less now. 

Here's another one, in 2015 the Dogs and Blues traded

Pick 11 and a future 3rd  FOR Picks 20 and 21. 

Slice it and dice it any way you want I just don't see how pick 9 goes to pick 23 without something very juicy included. And I'm not counting big juicy Preussy. 

Again mate, there's different reasons teams trade for certain picks. I didn't say anything about telling them of future plans, I was talking about how the two pick trades that were done last year would look very different to each other on the no-context scale you're applying.

Anyways, it's still a long way til trade time, so we probably should pace ourselves. I'll just say watch this space.

The Dees always take the trade period as a whole anyway. They don't isolate trade by trade (to an extent anyway).

2 hours ago, Dees247 said:

3 hours ago, old dee said:

Ok !Williams is going to Carlton Decided about 2 weeks ago OD 

2 hours ago, Hunt29 said:

If Mahoney can turn Preuss and 23 into pick 9 he is a genius. We’ll be lucky if we get a pick inside 30. 

I’m imagining Maxwell Smart:

would you take Pruess and pick 23 for .... pick 22?

Pick 9 - About 1400 points

Pick 23 - About 800 points

600 points (pick 30) difference.

That is remarkably fair for Preuss I would reckon, later second round.  But with the ‘slippage’ due to f/s and nga’s might change that (who knows in which direction).

Anyone know anything about Xavier O'halloran? Where does he play in the GWS midfield. He has the rare combo of speed and endurance and is a noted hard runner. Could he be our potential wing / outside mid? I don't know much about him (kicking skills etc) but he would be a lot easier to get from GWS and is also ex Vic Metro captain.

@ChaserJ?

14 hours ago, old dee said:

Of course it does depend on how badly GWS want him, if they are desperate for A ready made ruckman they may be prepared to pay overs to get him.

in my opinion it is not worth clearing him for nothing

He may be un happy to stay  but we don't need to panic and accept unders Preuss should have thought before signing contract

he may have to wait it out. But if GWS really want him they will have to pay overs