POSTGAME: Rd 14 vs St. Kilda

[Demons11 6,704]

I’m not sure if it’s been mentioned but I think some of Mitch Browns efforts in the last qtr were exceptional 

[titan_uranus 24,562]

48 minutes ago, Half forward flank said:

Anyone else think the fact Goody had to coach from the boundary was a blessing in disguise. he really engaged with the players on interchnge and directed players on the field as well. Great work. Credit where due.

What do you mean?

He was in the box for the first half. Was he forced to go to the bench the second half? I thought he just chose to, and if he did, then credit to him if it made a difference.

[Adam The God 29,327]

2 hours ago, Dr.D said:

How we won that game given our lack of skill level across the ground I'll never know.

And to that stupid umpire who yells out 'not 15' to a clear 20m kick from Mitch Brown in the final seconds needs to be sited. He got completely sucked into the moment and thought 'oh we can't have time wasting, not 15'. 

I want a personal apology from the afl first thing Monday morning 

I watched the final two minutes again on the AFL website and I don't know what people are talking about on this. Didn't look 15m at all.

[Willmoy1947 3,957]

Just a note on the Umpires......they have finally mastered the art of subverting the course of games by manipulating when and where to pay free kicks and when to play on. just one example , let several shorter than short passes be allowed and then stop the next one. 

Just bad luck if it happens to be your Team and whatever position the player is in, like no advantage or three blokes hanging off him.

[titan_uranus 24,562]

4 minutes ago, A F said:

I watched the final two minutes again on the AFL website and I don't know what people are talking about on this. Didn't look 15m at all.

I just watched it too and it was clearly 15 metres. Umpired called it almost the second it came off the boot. Could have cost us the game.

Watching that clip though is another example of how absolutely incredible Langdon is. His gut running at that stage of the game is enormous. Repeatedly available in the back pocket, back flank and wing to make options and help out.

[Macca 16,603]

Fine line between winning & losing sometimes.  Especially the reaction and consequences.  So we got over the line but we had a number of non contributors. 

As a collective our forwards are lazy and they don't adhere to the fundamentals.  Without the magic of Petracca we would have lost.  But he's a midfielder who pushes forward.  Against the best sides it can be a lot more difficult for a player like Petracca to kick 4 goals

So we need our forwards to stand up.  Hannan,  Pickett & Spargo just didn't do enough.  Brown & Weideman weren't physical enough and Melksham doesn't get to enough contests.  Jones had some time forward as well but was often inneffective. 

Overall the defensive pressure from our forwards (as a collective) was sub par.  The ball exits our forward line too easily.  It would help if our forwards played in front but again,  quite often they are caught playing from behind.

They can all push up and gather possessions further afield and then work together as a team within a team and fight hard to retain possession but they don't. 

As for our opponents last night,  they have regressed.  I'd expect GWS & Essendon to provide tougher opposition.  In fact,  none of our remaining 4 games are gimme's

Of course,  it's always nice to win but we need to play better from an overall perspective.

We are definitely a team that can play finals but because of our weaknesses we are not a top 4 team. 

[titan_uranus 24,562]

4 minutes ago, Macca said:

Fine line between winning & losing sometimes.  Especially the reaction and consequences.  So we got over the line but we had a number of non contributors. 

As a collective our forwards are lazy and they don't adhere to the fundamentals.  Without the magic of Petracca we would have lost.  But he's a midfielder who pushes forward.  Against the best sides it can be a lot more difficult for a player like Petracca to kick 4 goals

So we need our forwards to stand up.  Hannan,  Pickett & Spargo just didn't do enough.  Brown & Weideman weren't physical enough and Melksham doesn't get to enough contests.  Jones had some time forward as well but was often inneffective. 

Overall the defensive pressure from our forwards (as a collective) was sub par.  The ball exits our forward line too easily.  It would help if our forwards played in front but again,  quite often they are caught playing from behind.

They can all push up and gather possessions further afield and then work together as a team within a team and fight hard to retain possession but they don't. 

As for our opponents last night,  they have regressed.  I'd expect GWS & Essendon to provide tougher opposition.  In fact,  none of our remaining 4 games are gimme's

Of course,  it's always nice to win but we need to play better from an overall perspective.

We are definitely a team that can play finals but because of our weaknesses we are not a top 4 team. 

Sometimes that's the hallmark of a good side. Winning when both key players (Brayshaw had no impact, Gawn was down on his best, Viney had to tag and Oliver had little impact to three quarter time) and fringe players (take your pick of our forwards) are having bad games can be a sign that overall systems are holding up.

We certainly cannot rest on our laurels when it comes to our forward line, but we still converted a high percentage of our inside 50s, so it's not all doom and gloom in the forward half.

[Adam The God 29,327]

2 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

2?

It was one. The second one being attributed to Jones was absolutely Clarry's fault. A soft effort going back with one hand. He goes back with two hands and he marks it. Jones made the right call there.

2 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

Again, Tomlinson was better than you're ever prepared to give him credit for.

Defended his part of the ground well, and then gave us options coming out of defence. Also thought he put his head over the ball more than in other weeks.

Brown I thought was just OK. Can't see how he was any worse than TMac so I'd be keeping him in.

You're joking re: Fritsch, right?

Partly having a go at those saying Fritsch being dropped would hurt the team, but I don't believe we can play Melksham and Fritsch in the same team anymore. Neither bring enough pressure. They made the call with TMac. They need to make the call on these two. I'd be keeping Melksham personally because he's a much smarter decision maker than Fritsch.

[Demon Dynasty 17,091]

1 hour ago, Macca said:

Fine line between winning & losing sometimes.  Especially the reaction and consequences.  So we got over the line but we had a number of non contributors. 

As a collective our forwards are lazy and they don't adhere to the fundamentals.  Without the magic of Petracca we would have lost.  But he's a midfielder who pushes forward.  Against the best sides it can be a lot more difficult for a player like Petracca to kick 4 goals

So we need our forwards to stand up.  Hannan,  Pickett & Spargo just didn't do enough.  Brown & Weideman weren't physical enough and Melksham doesn't get to enough contests.  Jones had some time forward as well but was often inneffective. 

Overall the defensive pressure from our forwards (as a collective) was sub par.  The ball exits our forward line too easily.  It would help if our forwards played in front but again,  quite often they are caught playing from behind.

They can all push up and gather possessions further afield and then work together as a team within a team and fight hard to retain possession but they don't. 

Your forward line assessment is pretty good in general Macca other than that last para which is still mostly on the  money imv.

Most of the match (and prior matches, particularly Weid, they play from behind too often when there's a run & carry play coming off HB or the middle under heat.  Main forwards need to recognise this earlier and lead up to the carrier more often.  We are getting lead to those situations far too often by the opp defenders who often outmark us.  And no i'm not referring to their spare.  Separately from that type of outcome which is part of the norm.

On the highlighted para i think Weid & Brown started to do that in about the last 8 to 10 minutes or so.

Edited August 30, 2020 by Rusty Nails

[titan_uranus 24,562]

5 minutes ago, A F said:

It was one. The second one being attributed to Jones was absolutely Clarry's fault. A soft effort going back with one hand. He goes back with two hands and he marks it. Jones made the right call there.

Partly having a go at those saying Fritsch being dropped would hurt the team, but I don't believe we can play Melksham and Fritsch in the same team anymore. Neither bring enough pressure. They made the call with TMac. They need to make the call on these two. I'd be keeping Melksham personally because he's a much smarter decision maker than Fritsch.

I accept that both Fritsch and Melksham need to up their pressure games, but it's hardly like all of the small/mid forwards are keeping Fritsch out.

vandenBerg, Hannan and Jones were all poor/ineffectual last night. You can't tell me we don't have room for Fritsch given their respective performances (both last night and across the year). The more so given Fritsch hits the scoreboard.

[Cheesy D. Pun 1,762]

12 hours ago, JTR said:

St Kilda melt thread:

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/round-14-2020-melbourne-v-st-kilda.1246398/

Enjoy!  ?

Very enjoyable but also incredibly familiar content.

No plan B, get rid of X,Y, Z player, say goodbye to finals etc. 

Much like Demonland after a loss, not too many cool heads in the house.

[Demon Dynasty 17,091]

1 hour ago, A F said:

It was one. The second one being attributed to Jones was absolutely Clarry's fault. A soft effort going back with one hand. He goes back with two hands and he marks it. Jones made the right call there.

Partly having a go at those saying Fritsch being dropped would hurt the team, but I don't believe we can play Melksham and Fritsch in the same team anymore. Neither bring enough pressure. They made the call with TMac. They need to make the call on these two. I'd be keeping Melksham personally because he's a much smarter decision maker than Fritsch.

Agreed but if we are keeping him in he needs to play higher up the ground, looking for intercepts coming out of our 50 (his form of pressure if you like....he wont bring the ground stuff) and using his beautiful left low raking kicks to either hit up the odd lead, chaos ball it off the hands of the pack 20 odd meters out giving our smalls a chance (if one or two of them ever get their crumbing act together) or even mediums like traccc and / or hitting the square on occasions as a last choice bail out like we saw against the Crows at one point from about 50 out on the boundary, which handed the Weid a goal on the line (think it was the Crows anyway).

Edited August 30, 2020 by Rusty Nails

[Macca 16,603]

8 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

Sometimes that's the hallmark of a good side. Winning when both key players (Brayshaw had no impact, Gawn was down on his best, Viney had to tag and Oliver had little impact to three quarter time) and fringe players (take your pick of our forwards) are having bad games can be a sign that overall systems are holding up.

We certainly cannot rest on our laurels when it comes to our forward line, but we still converted a high percentage of our inside 50s, so it's not all doom and gloom in the forward half.

The players in the forward line can win the ball outside the 50 metre arc.  That was my point.

It's not all about inside 50 entries.

Again,  our forwards don't work hard enough.  'Chasing kicks' is a prerequisite of a forward these days.  Previously that term was sometimes frowned upon or looked upon as a selfish pursuit. 

[Dr. Gonzo 23,694]

3 hours ago, CBDees said:

Maybe if the boys are back in Melbourne they can watch the Grand Final Parade? ? Lucky that Dan Andrews gazetted the Public Holiday for the last Friday in September. ?????

The holiday will change to the Friday before the grand final whenever that will be

[Adam The God 29,327]

2 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

I accept that both Fritsch and Melksham need to up their pressure games, but it's hardly like all of the small/mid forwards are keeping Fritsch out.

vandenBerg, Hannan and Jones were all poor/ineffectual last night. You can't tell me we don't have room for Fritsch given their respective performances (both last night and across the year). The more so given Fritsch hits the scoreboard.

I'd have Vandenberg in my team ahead of Fritsch most weeks. One is combative, one is just happy kicking his one goal a game and being an AFL footballer.

That said, Fritsch will definitely come back in.

I worry about balance in our forwardline and accept that we haven't found the right mix or required consistency yet.

[Tom Dyson 1,633]

Didn't post last night because I was still too excited. That was amazing to hold on. 

Steven May - All Australian full-back 

Christian Petracca - Superstar 

Hotel - Trivago 

Up you mighty demons!!!!!

[Adam The God 29,327]

3 minutes ago, Macca said:

The players in the forward line can win the ball outside the 50 metre arc.  That was my point.

It's not all about inside 50 entries.

Again,  our forwards don't work hard enough.  'Chasing kicks' is a prerequisite of a forward these days.  Previously that term was sometimes frowned upon or looked upon as a selfish pursuit. 

I think one of the most important adjustments to our game has been the ability to maintain our forward structure, ie not push everyone up into midfield so that when we win it, we have no one forward of the ball to kick it to.

[Half forward flank 1,022]

36 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

What do you mean?

He was in the box for the first half. Was he forced to go to the bench the second half? I thought he just chose to, and if he did, then credit to him if it made a difference.

Didnt see the first half. Just assumed there was no box.

[Tom Dyson 1,633]

Not sure if anyone else sees this, but young rivers reminds me of travis johnstone, really light across the ground and a good disposal. He'll be an asset to this club for a while yet and is certainly going to be Hibbo's predecessor when the time comes. (hopefully not soon though, hibbo was amazing tonight especially after coming back from that ankle roll)  

[Dame Gaga 2,453]

Liked the vision of Goodwin jumping around on the sidelines shouting instructions in those last frantic seconds. Good to see the passion and pressure in action.

Also, looking to next week - confidence from a win with some inspiring performances is a wonderful thing.

[Macca 16,603]

7 minutes ago, A F said:

I think one of the most important adjustments to our game has been the ability to maintain our forward structure, ie not push everyone up into midfield so that when we win it, we have no one forward of the ball to kick it to.

I'm not advocating that every one of our forwards pushes up so that as a consequence there is no one to kick to. 

Petracca in 2019 played that high half forward position very well but ... the players further afield were ineffectual.  So we wasted him.

If players like Spargo or Hannan were to work their butts off to gather 20+ possessions (like Petracca often did in 2019) then we'd be better off.  But they don't and it's probably because they are incapable of doing so.

Check out the way Richmond go about it ... their forwards often roam far and wide (when they are on song) and they work really hard for each other.  And their defensive pressure is immense.  That's the template AF.

[Wadda We Sing 10,685]

32 minutes ago, A F said:

I think one of the most important adjustments to our game has been the ability to maintain our forward structure, ie not push everyone up into midfield so that when we win it, we have no one forward of the ball to kick it to.

Yes. Although how many times did we attempt to kick it to Weid (eat your heart out Eddie) and he was tag teamed by 3-4 opponants in the marking contest. Need to find a way around that, hes on other teams radar now.

[Wadda We Sing 10,685]

52 minutes ago, Tom Dyson said:

Not sure if anyone else sees this, but young rivers reminds me of travis johnstone, really light across the ground and a good disposal. He'll be an asset to this club for a while yet and is certainly going to be Hibbo's predecessor when the time comes. (hopefully not soon though, hibbo was amazing tonight especially after coming back from that ankle roll)  

He could barely walk in the rooms afterwards....

[DubDee 24,324]

I’ve been harsh on Brown but Seeing him going  back with the flight and getting crunched, I’m now a fan. Anyone that bleeds for the Dees is ok by me

great straight kick in the first also

[Vagg 2,437]

1 hour ago, Tom Dyson said:

Not sure if anyone else sees this, but young rivers reminds me of travis johnstone, really light across the ground and a good disposal. He'll be an asset to this club for a while yet and is certainly going to be Hibbo's predecessor when the time comes. (hopefully not soon though, hibbo was amazing tonight especially after coming back from that ankle roll)  

I realise, in this brave new world, that the meaning of a lot of words has been mongrelised in recent times.  But, still thought this one meant something akin to "come BEFORE".  You know, like precede.  Not quite sure how young Rivers is gonna achieve that little fete, unless his other name is Marty McFly...