I think I've worked it out...?

[Adam The God 30,257]

15 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

Goodwin moved Fritsch into the backline in the second half, as part of his (useless) flipping of magnets.

Yes, we run around the field a lot, but it stems from turnovers.

We looked composed and well structured over the past three weeks. We weren't turning it over as much. The two are, IMO, inextricably linked.

When we turn it over, we find ourselves caught out of position and then we look all over the shop, forcing everyone to sprint around to try to plug gaps.

So is the plan too difficult to execute consistently? (I don't want to sound like too much of a broken record, but...)

[Deemanding 15]

21 hours ago, JTR said:

On Harmes - I think he's been ruined by not playing him to his strengths and instead trying to turn him into something he isn't.

Pre 2018 he was just another plodder who I'm sure many wouldnt have minded trading/delisting.

2018 he reinvents himself as a lockdown mid who still got plenty of his own ball. Second half of the season in particular he took many impressive scalps.

2019 was 2019.... 

2020 off season we then try and turn him into a rebounding defender. He's then given about a game and a half before we abandon that plan and throw him back in the middle, minus the lock down role which was the part he was actually good at.

I’m with you. Since the purple patch of form in late 2018 , Harmes has been a liability. Really frustrates me by giving away needless free kicks especially up forward. Not up to the task of been a link man, getting sick and tired of promising passages ruined by his poor disposal whether by hand or foot or getting caught out by holding onto the ball for too long causing turnovers by fumbling or holding the ball free kick against. I as mentioned free kicks against  several times, he must be our worst offender this season. Playing like a player who has lost confidence thus his decision making is poor which has infected the majority of the team.
    Another thing that annoys me, during the quarter and three quarter time huddles, he always stands directly in front of Simon Goodwin intently nodding his head, then goes out plays like not a word the coach has said has registered. 

[Grr-owl 1,220]

5 hours ago, jnrmac said:

This.

And it is blindingly obvious to everyone except our brainless coaching staff.

I think this is why we need to get Salem into the midfield. He is no use to us off half back.He doesn't run and carry and deliver to a forward. He constantly dinks the ball 10m (which he does quite well but provides no real value).

He is quite a smart decision maker so could well be a revelation in the guts

Oliver is now next to useless in the middle. Turns it over too much, puts team mates under pressure and his happy handballing provides no impetus.

Viney we can afford to have in the middle but he isn't creative nor can he burst away to deliver to a forward. My thinking is we cant play oliver and Viney in the middle together.  Or maybe brayshaw goes in there as it is his natural position and can't seem to play anywhere else. 

I just wanna add my observation that we ran hard against Hawthorn, and last night we plodded around like trees. And trees don't plod.

[kev martin 9,892]

2 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

Goodwin moved Fritsch into the backline in the second half, as part of his (useless) flipping of magnets.

Yes, we run around the field a lot, but it stems from turnovers.

We looked composed and well structured over the past three weeks. We weren't turning it over as much. The two are, IMO, inextricably linked.

When we turn it over, we find ourselves caught out of position and then we look all over the shop, forcing everyone to sprint around to try to plug gaps.

Turnovers kill us. I wish we could dispose of the ball to our advantage. 

Is it the skills and that we can't execute under game pressure? Are we drinking the bath water again?

Is Pickett going to kick some goals?

We need marks inside the 50.

Also thought that they were at last playing for 4 quarters before the Port game showed our flaws.

The  next two weeks will tell alot about us.

Isn't that always the way, constantly play, have to win games. Always under points pressure.

Hoping we will get ahead of the curve someday.  

[kev martin 9,892]

I believe there are some academic papers that suggest that once the professional players get the right contract then their performances suffer.

Perhaps we need more contracts that emphasise the performance.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contract_year_phenomenon

[dee-eee 231]

1 hour ago, titan_uranus said:

Goodwin moved Fritsch into the backline in the second half, as part of his (useless) flipping of magnets.

Yes, we run around the field a lot, but it stems from turnovers.

We looked composed and well structured over the past three weeks. We weren't turning it over as much. The two are, IMO, inextricably linked.

When we turn it over, we find ourselves caught out of position and then we look all over the shop, forcing everyone to sprint around to try to plug gaps.

I actually laughed when Fritsch  late in the game attempted an impossible screamer behind the pack in the BACK POCKET ! 

Kinda ranks with our centremen shooting out lightning handballs to our nearest guernsey often between two opponents .

 

[Pickett2Jackson 3,904]

On 7/30/2020 at 11:39 PM, dazzledavey36 said:

Tom McDonald - Signs a 4 year deal in the middle of 2018. Since then, has turned into one of the worst footballers on our list. Can barely turn and is ridiculously slow.

Angus Brayshaw - Same as Tmac, Signs a big 4 year deal in the middle of 2018 and yet again hs done nothing since. A step closer to getting dropped to park footy.

James Harmes - Signs a 5 year deal last year and now thinks he's Dustin Martin. I'm staggered how far backwards he's gone.

 

Thats exactly the problem.

Been happening for decades.  A Melbourne players gets a big contract and then gives up.  Theyre in it for the $, nothing else.

[Satyriconhome 10,878]

Gee what a lot of twaddle in this topic

A couple of weeks ago and up to end of Brisbane game, we were on the right track, then we put in a really poor performance

Port and Brisbane are the two form sides of the comp, look what Brisbane did to the Bombers tonight

It's a glitch, we have a couple of games coming up to put it right

We have a few players in Fritsch, Brayshaw and Harmed who are not performing at the top, nothing whatsoever to do with contracts, just slightly off in form, with the examples of Hibberd and Jetta, they may be omitted against Adelaide

The centre bounce and stoppage need  to be changed up, if you think the coaches don't know this

We scored one really good end to end goal against Port, to show we can play that way

Both the Bulldogs and Essendon put in shockers this week, we are not alone

Quite simple for all the complainers who are sick of it, the players, the coach etc  if are based interstate from where the games are being played,  don't watch the [censored] games

Edited July 31, 2020 by Satyriconhome

[Pickett2Jackson 3,904]

9 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

The centre bounce and stoppage need  to be changed up, if you think the coaches don't know this

 

The coaching staff have not shown theyre capable of changing things up effectively.  And the sample size is huge.   Four or five seasons.

[defuture15 899]

3 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

Our defensive zone is actually one of the things we've been getting right the last month.

There's no defensive setup that can contain a top of the ladder side when you turn it over like we do.

Longing for old-fashioned one-on-one footy isn't the answer.

Concerted effort for our mids and forwards to improve their skills and work rate is.

I remember thinking how open the games were against GC and Hawthorn. This allowed us to play effectively and win those games. If there is a flood, wave or surge in opposition movement we are stuffed 

[Gawndy the Great 9,011]

6 hours ago, dieter said:

Is this a fact? Was he talked out of it?

Yep & yep.

[Pennant St Dee 13,173]

6 hours ago, cantstandyasam said:

Sorry Tomlinson lost me when he had that last deliberate set shot for goal against Geelong I think and he missed because he rushed the kick. He had the distance no problem. It looked like he wanted to have the set shot quickly and obviously missed.

Did Gawn lose you when he missed that sitter against Geelong in Round 1 of 2018 from directly in front.

FCS one kick

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

We played Port in Adelaide on a 4 day break.

Calm the farm.

Everyone knows it was a tres ordinaire performance. It was excruciating to watch.

That said, some of you seem to think you’re the only ones who managed to detect this and are calling it out, self anointed Don Trump genius style.

There were definitely some worrying signs, but I’ll reserve judgement until the next performance. We’re in unchartered waters here with this rapid fire, arcade game style hub competition at the moment.

I reckon the club knows where we’re at - and it’s not as bad as many here seem to think. It’s a pity we didn’t beat the Lions - because we should have.

 

[kev martin 9,892]

57 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

Gee what a lot of twaddle in this topic

A couple of weeks ago and up to end of Brisbane game, we were on the right track, then we put in a really poor performance

Port and Brisbane are the two form sides of the comp, look what Brisbane did to the Bombers tonight

It's a glitch, we have a couple of games coming up to put it right

We have a few players in Fritsch, Brayshaw and Harmed who are not performing at the top, nothing whatsoever to do with contracts, just slightly off in form, with the examples of Hibberd and Jetta, they may be omitted against Adelaide

The centre bounce and stoppage need  to be changed up, if you think the coaches don't know this

We scored one really good end to end goal against Port, to show we can play that way

Both the Bulldogs and Essendon put in shockers this week, we are not alone

Quite simple for all the complainers who are sick of it, the players, the coach etc  if are based interstate from where the games are being played,  don't watch the [censored] games

So the topic is "so I think I worked it out".

Are you saying the problem is the fans?

Or there is no problem?

Are you telling me not to watch MFC games?

I think the obvious problem remains our forward line, the lack of connection and conversion of inside 50's to score.

Give us you thoughts on this?

Please don't tell me how to use my time. I'm an adult and can choose my own behaviour without your mastery.

 

Edited July 31, 2020 by kev martin

[YesitwasaWin4theAges 6,702]

52 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

Gee what a lot of twaddle in this topic

A couple of weeks ago and up to end of Brisbane game, we were on the right track, then we put in a really poor performance

Port and Brisbane are the two form sides of the comp, look what Brisbane did to the Bombers tonight

It's a glitch, we have a couple of games coming up to put it right

We have a few players in Fritsch, Brayshaw and Harmed who are not performing at the top, nothing whatsoever to do with contracts, just slightly off in form, with the examples of Hibberd and Jetta, they may be omitted against Adelaide

The centre bounce and stoppage need  to be changed up, if you think the coaches don't know this

We scored one really good end to end goal against Port, to show we can play that way

Both the Bulldogs and Essendon put in shockers this week, we are not alone

Quite simple for all the complainers who are sick of it, the players, the coach etc  if are based interstate from where the games are being played,  don't watch the [censored] games

That's exactly why the game against Brisbane was so important to win, to play a top opponent off a 4 day break in a game of AFL with no rotation is near impossible.

Teams in Europe who play Football rotate their squad from a league game played on Sat or Sun. Their is usually 5-6 changes to a champions league match day starting 11, that's half a team, how many changes did we make? 2 changes, knowhere near enough changes to maintain quality of performance.

Midfields containing (3-4 players) are usually replaced along with Fullbacks (2 players) are usually rested to maintain the high energy levels the positions require to keep team perfomances high.

We were sluggish coming off a slugfest against Bris and to back it up in such a short space of time against a quality team was too much to ask. 

If it was a Adelaide, Sydney or Essendon might have had an improved chance against a physically lesser opponent.

I've been thinking about it quiet a bit today how can a team recover and play a game of AFL in 4 days? Port had a full day of recovery up on us. As soon as they broke us early in the first i knew the game was up.

Remember the turn around for games after ANZAC eve games against Essendon we would have another whole day preparation compared to Essendon and we would smack them everytime.

It's a compromised comp we all know that, would like to see how other team play on these 4 day turn arounds and we might get a better perspective on our performance.

Collingwoods turn next on a 4 day turn around but the draw is very kind against a weak Sydney side.

We were the guinea pigs for the 1st experiment.

[Gunna’s 2,104]

4 hours ago, Win4theAges said:

That's exactly why the game against Brisbane was so important to win, to play a top opponent off a 4 day break in a game of AFL with no rotation is near impossible.

Teams in Europe who play Football rotate their squad from a league game played on Sat or Sun. Their is usually 5-6 changes to a champions league match day starting 11, that's half a team, how many changes did we make? 2 changes, knowhere near enough changes to maintain quality of performance.

Midfields containing (3-4 players) are usually replaced along with Fullbacks (2 players) are usually rested to maintain the high energy levels the positions require to keep team perfomances high.

We were sluggish coming off a slugfest against Bris and to back it up in such a short space of time against a quality team was too much to ask. 

If it was a Adelaide, Sydney or Essendon might have had an improved chance against a physically lesser opponent.

I've been thinking about it quiet a bit today how can a team recover and play a game of AFL in 4 days? Port had a full day of recovery up on us. As soon as they broke us early in the first i knew the game was up.

Remember the turn around for games after ANZAC eve games against Essendon we would have another whole day preparation compared to Essendon and we would smack them everytime.

It's a compromised comp we all know that, would like to see how other team play on these 4 day turn arounds and we might get a better perspective on our performance.

Collingwoods turn next on a 4 day turn around but the draw is very kind against a weak Sydney side.

We were the guinea pigs for the 1st experiment.

It annoys me that the fixturing is so compromised. Why play a bottom 2 side against a 10th (final 2019 positions) with the lower ranked team having a shorter break?

To add, the game should have been at metricon where we had played the most recent few games. 

Small things I know but they all add up. 

[NeveroddoreveN 1,034]

17 hours ago, Return to Glory said:

We don't have the funds to get rid of Goodwin right now. However, we can definitely afford to offload Alan Richardson. Poor to terrible coach at StKilda and, as is a our way, we decide to pick him up as an assistant. Huge error.

Meanwhile, smart clubs are looking for young, bright assistants with the mental acumen to genuinely analyse the systems of the opposition and, at the same time, develop systems that work to our strengths.I.e. a Blake Caracella who has shown what an effective assistant can do.

I genuinely believe that this lack of off-field smarts has cost us two matches, Geelong and Brisbane. We take an eternity on game day to solve problems being thrown at us. Even taking into account last nights putridness, a good assistant would have us 5 - 3 going into winnable matches.

In summary, [censored] off Richardson. You're akin to a double agent. 

 

I wonder whether Goodie actually listens to ANY of our assistant coaches....Clearly wants to do things his own way!  Buckley/Hardwick both learned to use their assistant coaches and make it a team effort all across the board.  Petracca has improved his game through an individual realisation he wanted better out of himself.  We really don't seem to develop our players at all well, quite often they go backwards within our system. Something is just horribly wrong...Usually the fish rots at the head

[BenJamin on Deesy St 805]

5 hours ago, Ron Burgundy said:

I reckon the club knows where we’re at - and it’s not as bad as many here seem to think. It’s a pity we didn’t beat the Lions - because we should have.

Indeed. The club had no doubt pinned their hopes on winning one of the Bris and Port games. I just hope the ‘winnable’ Lions loss is not the game that blew our season apart like the one in R11 v Adel last year, ‘cos it sure seemed that way v Port. Time for some mental fortitude, Demons. Next two games will tell all, no excuses.

[NeveroddoreveN 1,034]

9 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

But they're not though.

More than ever under Goodwin's reign, we're keeping forwards higher up the ground as outlets for when we get the ball back.

Our mids are defensively running now, which is essential. No team leaves defence up to the back six alone.

If we're losing energy defending, which we are, it's because we keep turning it over forcing us to have to manically re-set our zone and sprint back into defence. Too much running between the 50s and not enough keeping of the ball inside our forward half (which is what Goodwin has always wanted).

Agree with all of this but I see a massive issue that we seem to go away from on a regular basis. We don't pressure the ball carrier, we fall off in waves to flood defence....even man on mark turns his back to run away lmao.  Our game style is beyond flawed...we are the best team at defending grass and making opposition look sublime through very little pressure all across the ground. 

[Grouse 192]

On 7/31/2020 at 12:12 AM, JTR said:

On Harmes - I think he's been ruined by not playing him to his strengths and instead trying to turn him into something he isn't.

Pre 2018 he was just another plodder who I'm sure many wouldnt have minded trading/delisting.

2018 he reinvents himself as a lockdown mid who still got plenty of his own ball. Second half of the season in particular he took many impressive scalps.

2019 was 2019.... 

2020 off season we then try and turn him into a rebounding defender. He's then given about a game and a half before we abandon that plan and throw him back in the middle, minus the lock down role which was the part he was actually good at.

I agree. It seems to be an ongoing problem. Harmes to backline, fritch to backline, Smith to backline. All wasted there in my opinion. We also seem to keep persisting with horribly out of form players. Why bring back tmac, the most out of form bloke in the comp, when we need some speed? The worst selection of the year. Tmac is finished and if he's picked again we will loose again. 

[Lucifers Hero 39,802]

10 hours ago, Deemanding said:

 Another thing that annoys me, during the quarter and three quarter time huddles, he always stands directly in front of Simon Goodwin intently nodding his head, then goes out plays like not a word the coach has said has registered. 

Either vs Hawks or vs Port, after the 3/4 time huddle Goodwin turned to walk away.  Harmes called him back for a few seconds.  Very worried look on his face.  He listens but is he doubting what is being said?

[Satyriconhome 10,878]

11 hours ago, kev martin said:

So the topic is "so I think I worked it out".

Are you saying the problem is the fans?

Or there is no problem?

Are you telling me not to watch MFC games?

I think the obvious problem remains our forward line, the lack of connection and conversion of inside 50's to score.

Give us you thoughts on this?

Please don't tell me how to use my time. I'm an adult and can choose my own behaviour without your mastery.

 

The point I was making, if you are sick of the Club and your only avenue to see games is on the web or tv, don't watch it, then we won't  have pages and pages of 'I'm sick of this'

It was a poor game, the previous 3 games, the connection and conversion was on the improve

I posted some of the issues, such as players not being in top form etc

This site is infamous for blowing one way then the other depending on t h e result

[JTR 2,846]

1 minute ago, Satyriconhome said:

The point I was making, if you are sick of the Club and your only avenue to see games is on the web or tv, don't watch it, then we won't  have pages and pages of 'I'm sick of this'

It was a poor game, the previous 3 games, the connection and conversion was on the improve

I posted some of the issues, such as players not being in top form etc

This site is infamous for blowing one way then the other depending on t h e result

"Not everyone has to agree with your opinion" is something I see you say a lot around here Saty...

And yet here you are are again trying to get everyone to conform to your views on how everything is going.

If you don't like like what you are reading, then may I suggest you follow your own advise and take your sanctimonious dribble elsewhere?

[jnrmac 20,065]

12 hours ago, CYB said:

Yep & yep.

And like the Adelaide camp that has festered for 3 years, the fact that our players went around their leadership and coaching staff to complain to the Players association about a camp says everything about this group. even goodwin was shocked and offered to resign. Yet he learned nothing.

Imagine for a second if a player had gone around jonathan Brown to the PA because they didn't want to do a camp? Well thats what we had. Brown would have figuritively smashed them.

Its not only a disgrace but emblematic of the poor and divided leadership we have at the club. And when the whips are cracking thats when you need leadership.

Where is ours??

[dieter 3,325]

15 hours ago, CYB said:

Yep & yep.

Can you please elaborate...