3 hours ago, BW511 said:

The only bloke we have who could consistently deliver to the advantage of leading forwards is stuck in the goal square wrestling 

Yes, but that Should force other mids to lift this aspect of their game.

Why develop our team to be one-dimensional.

4 minutes ago, MyFavouriteMartian said:

Yes, but that Should force other mids to lift this aspect of their game.

Why develop our team to be one-dimensional.

You'd think so, but how long have you got to wait?

11 minutes ago, BW511 said:

You'd think so, but how long have you got to wait?

I TMc is taking the best defender, and he draws that player away from goal;  Fritta is one who could get a mis-match being skilled overhead and at ground level.  And a reliable kick normally.

He is having his own struggle with confidence in front of goal,  and so by playing thru that low confidence,  should help to toughen him up, as he needs this. IMO.

 

This is why I want to get max out of centre bounces for decent parts of the game because our layers are being reliant on his taps.  Unhealthy IF we want a midfield that can win their own hard ball inside.

 

Also Oli, put him where he can work on his weaknesses. make him be accountable for an opponent, either forward or in defence. to teach him to stop blazing away to no one, just forward is not good enough.

I think after closer viewing of Oli this season, thanks to Kayo,  that he's become lazy of mind,  and is only about stats, stats, stats.  And less about quality delivery.

I think its become, the all about Oli show.

 

... I wonder if another click is growing within the club.???  I hope not.

Edited July 2, 20204 yr by MyFavouriteMartian

4 hours ago, DeeZee said:

Midfielders making very poor decisions and bombing it to two on ones, where shorter kicks had men free inside 50.

 

4 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Unfortunately, due to the chaos, play-on at all costs, ballistic style of the Goodwin years others (Hunt, Brayshaw, Oliver etc) have learnt same bad habits.  It will take a long time to unlearn them.

 

I think them being constantly in "frantic" mode is what leads to the poor (non-) decisions when going forward

11 minutes ago, Mazer Rackham said:

I think them being constantly in "frantic" mode is what leads to the poor (non-) decisions when going forward

That is true but Goodwin has trained the 'frantic'/chaos/ballistic to be instinctive rather than a 'decision'.   If it were the latter, imv it would be a lot easier to unlearn/reprogram.

I think he is trying to change that instinct but now players appear uncertain and hesitate.  Very noticeable in our last two games.

Edited July 2, 20204 yr by Lucifer's Hero

40 minutes ago, MyFavouriteMartian said:

I TMc is taking the best defender, and he draws that player away from goal;  Fritta is one who could get a mis-match being skilled overhead and at ground level.  And a reliable kick normally.

He is having his own struggle with confidence in front of goal,  and so by playing thru that low confidence,  should help to toughen him up, as he needs this. IMO.

 

This is why I want to get max out of centre bounces for decent parts of the game because our layers are being reliant on his taps.  Unhealthy IF we want a midfield that can win their own hard ball inside.

 

Also Oli, put him where he can work on his weaknesses. make him be accountable for an opponent, either forward or in defence. to teach him to stop blazing away to no one, just forward is not good enough.

I think after closer viewing of Oli this season, thanks to Kayo,  that he's become lazy of mind,  and is only about stats, stats, stats.  And less about quality delivery.

I think its become, the all about Oli show.

 

... I wonder if another click is growing within the club.???  I hope not.

No issues with all this, but T-Mac isn't exactly commanding the best defender either. No one is scared of him and he's as one-dimensional as you can get up forward.

I do agree that if we are to instill some 'learnings' into the midfield group (Oliver/Gus), a stopping role on the opposition's hardest running mids would be a great start. Clayton is getting lots of touches and clearances each week, but he looks like he's on autopilot. He needs to get hungry again and I think running with your Danger/Dusty/Bont/Cripps types could be just what he needs. Don't go head to head, just blanket them. Learn how hard and smart they work and their teammates work for them.

So does this put the onus on the players or Goodwin? Or both?

If we are training players to execute a certain way, then surely if they can't do it regularly they should be dropped?

And if Gawn and Viney are two of the main culprits, then they need to have a hard look at themselves and their leadership credentials.

I've just watched the segment.

I think the thing I liked the most was Ross saying "play the way you face", which was in response to a clip of Gawn picking the ball up on the lead and then turning around himself, rather than handpassing to Pickett who was running past him. He should have given to Pickett, he didn't, which didn't help, and then he missed Melksham out in space and went to the pocket.

Too often we have players who take the ball on the lead but either are given no options for runners past them (i.e. we're not working hard enough) or they don't take the opportunities when presented. 

 

6 minutes ago, BW511 said:

No issues with all this, but T-Mac isn't exactly commanding the best defender either. No one is scared of him and he's as one-dimensional as you can get up forward.

He's out of form like much of the team;  and much of the league are out of form,  in such a disjointed season.

 

8 minutes ago, BW511 said:

 

I do agree that if we are to instill some 'learnings' into the midfield group (Oliver/Gus), a stopping role on the opposition's hardest running mids would be a great start.

Clayton is getting lots of touches and clearances each week, but he looks like he's on autopilot.

 

He needs to get hungry again and I think running with your Danger/Dusty/Bont/Cripps types could be just what he needs.

I'd take him out of the midfield setup this year in the claytons year. to make headway with him whilst it s a lesser season.  Take him out and play him in a foreign position  For me,  in a sense a mental demotion will do him good,  as  think he's gotten ahead of things.

Looks cavalier to me. wrong attitude. imo.

5 hours ago, DeeZee said:

Lloyd did a similar analysis after round one.

Midfielders making very poor decisions and bombing it to two on ones, where shorter kicks had men free inside 50.

It also doesn’t really help that we have no powerful presence demanding the ball.

yes. Watching the Geelong game on the weekend, was watching two completely different team styles. I thought our defensive pressure was actually good most of the game but Geelong had precise kicking all day long. a little bit off and they would have been on trouble. credit to them. We are the opposite.

Watch the replay and Geelong so often 50-70m out kicked short to a safe target. they went safe all day. sometimes we just need to hit a short target up forward and tease out their backline to honour our forwards leading then occasionally go deep.

and we need to mark then kick short quickly, not like Salems last effort which was to watch us outnumber them in the forward line, then wait 30 seconds then kick to an impossible contest.

14 minutes ago, Bay Riffin said:

yes. Watching the Geelong game on the weekend, was watching two completely different team styles. I thought our defensive pressure was actually good most of the game but Geelong had precise kicking all day long. a little bit off and they would have been on trouble. credit to them. We are the opposite.

They spread wide very well when they won the ball back.   Right to boundary line,  teasing out our players.

We don't spread as well,  and up forward we are compact at the hotspot,  instead of spread wide, so they're defenders worked in support of one another.   And they beat us.

16 hours ago, TheKozzieExperience said:

Havent seen the segment  but I  am getting flashbacks to when Paul Roos was analyzing our list in the media before the jungle drums started beating about him coming to the Demons.

I know a lot of people may not want Ross Lyon as coach for whatever reasons, but I would take him any day of the week.. We have the talent we just need the coach.

I would take him over Goodwin any day kozzie. 
 

With Lyon u know what u are getting. 

I think someone forgot to tell the players that a small forward line means the small forwards to to keep running to provide options for the mids to kick to.

Either that or the players are slow learners and it will be a few more games before the penny drops.

The small forward line will be persevered with to give the team time to get used it.  Lets hope it sank in after the Cats game.

 

1 hour ago, manny100 said:

I think someone forgot to tell the players that a small forward line means the small forwards to to keep running to provide options for the mids to kick to.

Either that or the players are slow learners and it will be a few more games before the penny drops.

The small forward line will be persevered with to give the team time to get used it.  Lets hope it sank in after the Cats game.

 

Habits can be hard to break,  when they have been getting away with them for some time.  = culture.

 

Small forwardline,  have to,  because we haven't developed any smalls for some time;  so we need to develop a few at once now,  to get them up and going.

When the smalls start to click and work hard for one another,  that will be the prime-time to bring Weide back in.   Into a hard working forward-line. 

Hopefully not before,  or he will be crucified again.

Good summary on Footy Classified.

https://www.9now.com.au/footy-classified/2020/episode-32?welcome - you'll need to setup an account.

At the 35:20 mark of the show, so you can flick past the ads.

 

7 hours ago, Luther said:

I can't stand Lyon and have never wanted him as coach in the past.

But now it suddenly seems that he'd be the perfect fit for our list - that coach that can focus on getting the best out of players that are near their prime and instil a disciplined, proven game plan.

Ill take Ross Lyon or Clarko right now!!

38 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Ill take Ross Lyon or Clarko right now!!

What about Adam Simpson.?

Luke Beveridge.?

1 minute ago, MyFavouriteMartian said:

What about Adam Simpson.?

Luke Beveridge.?

Nope not Simpson, has a great team, Bevo?? Possibly but prefer the other two Ross Lyon is a "Brilliant" tactical coach and the players play for him, just ask Nat Fyffe and Harley!! Clarko though is just as thorough and really knows his footy! Plus he played for us for a time!

2 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Nope not Simpson, has a great team, Bevo?? Possibly but prefer the other two Ross Lyon is a "Brilliant" tactical coach and the players play for him, just ask Nat Fyffe and Harley!! Clarko though is just as thorough and really knows his footy! Plus he played for us for a time!

The same Ross Lyon who spent his entire career being criticised for being overly defensive and not scoring enough?

The same one who never won a premiership despite coaching the best side in 2009-10 and getting three GFs to attempt it?

Meanwhile Simpson "has a great team" which is some sort of negative against him (how does that work) and Beveridge gets two question marks. At least they've gone all the way!

Just my opinion of course!

6 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Nope not Simpson, has a great team, Bevo?? Possibly but prefer the other two Ross Lyon is a "Brilliant" tactical coach and the players play for him, just ask Nat Fyffe and Harley!! Clarko though is just as thorough and really knows his footy! Plus he played for us for a time!

The same Lyon that was sacked from the Saints, and left them with no list to speak of, other than aging Riewoldt and Montana.

The same coach who was sacked by Freo after suck lofty achievements and development of players.???

 

And Clarko,  who is a magician with club lists,  and has them up and going on one legged plodders.

These same coaches;  who would start again, changing everything, taking us back 3 or 4 years.

11 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

The same Ross Lyon who spent his entire career being criticised for being overly defensive and not scoring enough?

The same one who never won a premiership despite coaching the best side in 2009-10 and getting three GFs to attempt it?

Meanwhile Simpson "has a great team" which is some sort of negative against him (how does that work) and Beveridge gets two question marks. At least they've gone all the way!

Sheet, I thought I was rereading my post.

Would have either in a heartbeat rather than the rhettorical..... We will be better prepared next time!!! Yadda Yadda!

But your view! You are entitled to it! How many years has it been again??? Do you reckon Simon Goodwin is the man? 

 

26 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Would have either in a heartbeat rather than the rhettorical..... We will be better prepared next time!!! Yadda Yadda!

But your view! You are entitled to it! How many years has it been again??? Do you reckon Simon Goodwin is the man? 

 

He's fine to develop this list atmo,  and is committed to bringing in new players,  including kids,  and will play them early, if they warrant it.

Whether he's a finishing coach is too far out there, right now.   But he was very good in 2018.

 

I don't know of anyone better at doing the development thing and trying out new players,  and is doing the right thing by playing some already proficient players off position,  so he can continue to build depth and new talents into our team.

Edited July 2, 20204 yr by MyFavouriteMartian

9 hours ago, BW511 said:

The only bloke we have who could consistently deliver to the advantage of leading forwards is stuck in the goal square wrestling 

Two blokes. The other is sitting in the stands watching, bizarre.