TEAMS: Rd 04 vs Geelong

[The Swimming Dee 1,904]

1 minute ago, Lord Nev said:

 

Gysberts.

That was a good one too...his best game 

[Pennant St Dee 13,305]

22 hours ago, rjay said:

 

Unfortunately Goody's explanation left things open to interpretation.

I've got no problem with him being rested but I do have a problem with him being dropped for Hannan.

Wasn't referring to you Rjay, I expect he will be managed and 50% game time is a gamble if you lose players through injury and have younger players in the side

[Adam The God 30,421]

It'll be interesting to see our brand tomorrow. We may not sustain whatever we bring for 4 quarters, but I want to see a recognisable brand.  

[Engorged Onion 10,223]

4 minutes ago, A F said:

It'll be interesting to see our brand tomorrow. We may not sustain whatever we bring for 4 quarters, but I want to see a recognisable brand.  

Is that tongue firmly in cheek? What is our brand? Seriously, are there particular words that act as values/drivers?

[Adam The God 30,421]

8 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

Is that tongue firmly in cheek? What is our brand? Seriously, are there particular words that act as values/drivers?

I watched a quarter of the St Kilda game today and you could immediately see their brand, which was built off hard two way running and pressure. We haven't run hard two ways since the Hawthorn semi final in 2018 and even then struggled for much of 2018 to run both ways.

It's all well and good to win the ball every now and then from the contest but if you can't defend opposition stoppages, you're going nowhere.

In the first quarter against Carlton we locked the ball in and played territory like we hadn't since 2018, but I believe we try to play a system not suited to our forwardline (or our list), which is Richmond's successful blueprint.

If you look at how Richmond enter forward 50, they go high and long to packs too, but they have fast crumbers on either side of the packs, something we don't have enough of on our list.

I want us to be bold and innovative with our game style like we were across 2017-2018. It didn't always work, but when it did, it set us apart from the rest of the competition. I fear much of this innovation came from Jennings, so it'll be interesting to see what else Goodwin has.

Edited June 27, 2020 by A F

[Hogan2014 390]

19 minutes ago, A F said:

I watched a quarter of the St Kilda game today and you could immediately see their brand, which was built off hard two way running and pressure. We haven't run hard two ways since the Hawthorn semi final in 2018 and even then struggled for much of 2018 to run both ways.

It's all well and good to win the ball every now and then from the contest but if you can't defend opposition stoppages, you're going nowhere.

In the first quarter against Carlton we locked the ball in and played territory like we hadn't since 2018, but I believe try to play a system not suited to our forwardline, which is Richmond's successful blueprint.

If you look at how Richmond enter forward 50, they go high and long to packs too, but they have fast crumbers on either side of the packs, something we don't have enough of on our list.

I want us to be bold and innovative with our game style like we were across 2017-2018. It didn't always work, but when it did, it set us apart from the opposition. I fear much of the innovation came from Jennings, so it'll be interesting to see what else Goodwin has.

We have a coach who has lost his way since 6,6,6 & continues with same dribble each week, will be very sad if another group of players goes by with little success & another rebuild number 4or5 since Daniher!

[Hogan2014 390]

We lack goal kickers  & Kent just kicked 2 against the Tigers.....

We bring in 2 overpriced defenders plus future picks go & let Frost walk.....

Tell me the sense ????

[Engorged Onion 10,223]

14 minutes ago, A F said:

I watched a quarter of the St Kilda game today and you could immediately see their brand, which was built off hard two way running and pressure. We haven't run hard two ways since the Hawthorn semi final in 2018 and even then struggled for much of 2018 to run both ways.

It's all well and good to win the ball every now and then from the contest but if you can't defend opposition stoppages, you're going nowhere.

In the first quarter against Carlton we locked the ball in and played territory like we hadn't since 2018, but I believe we try to play a system not suited to our forwardline (or our list), which is Richmond's successful blueprint.

If you look at how Richmond enter forward 50, they go high and long to packs too, but they have fast crumbers on either side of the packs, something we don't have enough of on our list.

I want us to be bold and innovative with our game style like we were across 2017-2018. It didn't always work, but when it did, it set us apart from the rest of the competition. I fear much of this innovation came from Jennings, so it'll be interesting to see what else Goodwin has.

I hear what you are saying. 

We do have a brand, Goodwin has always been about the contested ball, and then building from the outside, as it stands up in finals.

We do that pretty damn well most of the time.

BUT... we are not two way runners in the midfield... and perhaps this why there is such poor 'disconnection'. 

Simplistically, it's 'see ball, get ball' (ie: Viney) but there is no nuance to it, and seemingly an inability to check themselves and choose to do something different as things evolve mid game.

So, somewhat cynically, I'll say the Goodwin brand will be seen tomorrow - it's whether Geelong exploit the limited desire to do the two way running...

Edited June 27, 2020 by Engorged Onion

[Leoncelli_36 2,264]

31 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

I hear what you are saying. 

We do have a brand, Goodwin has always been about the contested ball, and then building from the outside, as it stands up in finals.

We do that pretty damn well most of the time.

BUT... we are not two way runners in the midfield... and perhaps this why there is such poor 'disconnection'. 

Simplistically, it's 'see ball, get ball' (ie: Viney) but there is no nuance to it, and seemingly an inability to check themselves and choose to do something different as things evolve mid game.

So, somewhat cynically, I'll say the Goodwin brand will be seen tomorrow - it's whether Geelong exploit the limited desire to do the two way running...

Goodwin has a midfield of blokes who are incapable of lowering eyes and hitting targets on a lead on rebound. That’s the alarming thing. Couple this with his reluctance to play a tall out of the goal square and it’s a recipe for disaster. You get a team who wins plenty of contested ball, but cannot use it well enough to impact the scoreboard. We rely on a mosquito forward line to work hard for every goal.

 

look at the current best team in the league, Port. A dominant forward booting six. McDonald won’t play anywhere near the goals and we will be leaving it up to Fritsch and Melksham to produce a winning score. All well and good to play Kozzie, but who is going to bring it to ground for him? 
 

Goodwin has a flawed game plan that is tired and does not suit the cattle he has at his disposal. he is too strong headed to try something new. We saw some gradual improvements in one quarter against Carlton and then the old habits returned. At no point did he ever look to play a tall deep to give us a chance. 

[Caligula's cohort 1,014]

45 minutes ago, Hogan2014 said:

We lack goal kickers  & Kent just kicked 2 against the Tigers.....

We bring in 2 overpriced defenders plus future picks go & let Frost walk.....

Tell me the sense ????

Kent was one of my faves at the Dees, but he wouldn't be able to get a game with our current healthy list. He was lucky to get a game at the Saints today as Ryder was a late omission. 

As for Frost, he didn't stick to the defensive structures and was shown the door... much like Dunn. But I agree, it was sad to see him go. 

[MyFavouriteMartian 572]

4 hours ago, picket fence said:

Ok I'll say this then I'll leave it. Harley Bennell should be playing tommorrow and unless he is not fit is a mistake IMV

R U sure,  'pf'.?

 

4 hours ago, TheKozzieExperience said:

Would rather he was up to proper fitness and came back with a bang.

Yeah he played round 2, but only 50% game time and he was a bit tentative (understandably) so maybe he just wasn't ready yet.

So do I,  'TKE'.

Id like to come back with a bang as well.

[Caligula's cohort 1,014]

It's also interesting to note that Melbourne is a much stronger side compared to the team that played in the 2018 Elimination Final against Geelong. We've added May, Lever, Langdon and Tomlinson. Melbourne are entering their prime playing group age, while Geelong will only have this year to have a crack. Selwood, Hawkins, Taylor, Ablett, Tuohy, Steven and even Danger are 30 and over and nearing the end. I'd imagine they'll drop off steeply next year. 

[MyFavouriteMartian 572]

2 hours ago, The Swimming Dee said:

how did I forget that.

Easy because he hasn't added any new strings to the bow he showed us back then.   He's still the same player doing the same things, and not any better, than in his first season.

He's plateaued.

[rjay 25,093]

5 hours ago, loges said:

Was crystal clear to me , he's being managed due to his history of calf problems.

Not when he's on the team sheet as omitted...

[loges 6,767]

7 hours ago, rjay said:

Not when he's on the team sheet as omitted...

Sorry thought you were talking about Goodwins comments, not the team sheet.

[DeeZee 7,445]

15 hours ago, Caligula's cohort said:

It's also interesting to note that Melbourne is a much stronger side compared to the team that played in the 2018 Elimination Final against Geelong. We've added May, Lever, Langdon and Tomlinson. Melbourne are entering their prime playing group age, while Geelong will only have this year to have a crack. Selwood, Hawkins, Taylor, Ablett, Tuohy, Steven and even Danger are 30 and over and nearing the end. I'd imagine they'll drop off steeply next year. 

Agree, Except TMac and Weed were on fire that day and we currently do not have an in form tall forward.

[titan_uranus 25,045]

19 hours ago, A F said:

I watched a quarter of the St Kilda game today and you could immediately see their brand, which was built off hard two way running and pressure. We haven't run hard two ways since the Hawthorn semi final in 2018 and even then struggled for much of 2018 to run both ways.

It's all well and good to win the ball every now and then from the contest but if you can't defend opposition stoppages, you're going nowhere.

In the first quarter against Carlton we locked the ball in and played territory like we hadn't since 2018, but I believe we try to play a system not suited to our forwardline (or our list), which is Richmond's successful blueprint.

If you look at how Richmond enter forward 50, they go high and long to packs too, but they have fast crumbers on either side of the packs, something we don't have enough of on our list.

I want us to be bold and innovative with our game style like we were across 2017-2018. It didn't always work, but when it did, it set us apart from the rest of the competition. I fear much of this innovation came from Jennings, so it'll be interesting to see what else Goodwin has.

Are these inconsistent?

IMO what we tried to do against Carlton, and succeed in doing for the first half, was our 2018-style of game: dominance in clearances/CPs, most of the game being played in our forward half, strong forward half pressure. It even, at our best that day, had the addition of lowered eyes kicking inside 50 and players taking marks on the lead.

18 hours ago, Hogan2014 said:

We lack goal kickers  & Kent just kicked 2 against the Tigers.....

We bring in 2 overpriced defenders plus future picks go & let Frost walk.....

Tell me the sense ????

Kent's already been dropped once this year, was a late inclusion yesterday, had just 10 touches and didn't lay a tackle.

If, say, ANB did that, he'd cop it on here, and/or get dropped - precisely what happened after he kicked two goals vs Carlton.

We have May, Lever, OMac, Smith and Petty on the list. Frost asked for a higher sum than we were prepared to offer him. He turns it over repeatedly and wasn't learning from his mistakes.

[Deemania since 56 6,718]

19 hours ago, Hogan2014 said:

We lack goal kickers  & Kent just kicked 2 against the Tigers.....

We bring in 2 overpriced defenders plus future picks go & let Frost walk.....

Tell me the sense ????

Two of my favourite players in the past couple of years - guys who could perform well yet given little chance for one reason or the other to settle and make the ground that they were capable of - have been Kent and Frosty. Miss'em.

[Half forward flank 1,022]

9 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

Are these inconsistent?

IMO what we tried to do against Carlton, and succeed in doing for the first half, was our 2018-style of game: dominance in clearances/CPs, most of the game being played in our forward half, strong forward half pressure. It even, at our best that day, had the addition of lowered eyes kicking inside 50 and players taking marks on the lead.

Kent's already been dropped once this year, was a late inclusion yesterday, had just 10 touches and didn't lay a tackle.

If, say, ANB did that, he'd cop it on here, and/or get dropped - precisely what happened after he kicked two goals vs Carlton.

We have May, Lever, OMac, Smith and Petty on the list. Frost asked for a higher sum than we were prepared to offer him. He turns it over repeatedly and wasn't learning from his mistakes.

Frost will be a success under Clarko. Learn from mistakes, talk about kill chicken-scare monkey. What about the continued mistakes of our mid field disposal. Not a star but a solid performer. He embaressed our recruitment and $$$ on Lever.

[WA Demon Boy 966]

2 minutes ago, Deemania since 56 said:

Two of my favourite players in the past couple of years - guys who could perform well yet given little chance for one reason or the other to settle and make the ground that they were capable of - have been Kent and Frosty. Miss'em.

kent and frost aren't long-term players

wish them the best but they won't be consistent enough over a long period 

[Adam The God 30,421]

2 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

Are these inconsistent?

I don't think so. The long kicking to contests and crumbing is the Richmond style with pressure. We don't have enough leg speed. I want us to be bold and play to our strengths. (see below).

2 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

IMO what we tried to do against Carlton, and succeed in doing for the first half, was our 2018-style of game: dominance in clearances/CPs, most of the game being played in our forward half, strong forward half pressure. It even, at our best that day, had the addition of lowered eyes kicking inside 50 and players taking marks on the lead.

I agree. That was playing to our strengths.