25 minutes ago, whatwhatsaywhat said:

very good second half but an appalling first half

He didn't play a minute in the midfield in the first half.

Was very good as soon as he went into the middle.

It's no coincidence that we wiped the floor with them when we played Oliver, Gus and Petracca from stoppages in the last quarter.

16 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

Started in the centre square at the opening bounce, I believe.

Had no impact, at all, in the first half. Terrible half.

Improved markedly as the game went on, and that's obviously a good thing, but we must keep in mind our opponent was pathetic.

Needs to back that up next week, and longer term. Hopefully he gets some confidence from how he finished the game.

He definitely started the first centre bounce as I was shocked to see him there. He then spent about 2 more mins on and was benched for six to eight minutes.

It looked like a lot of guys in the third quarter we’re looking for him. I think Oliver and Trac both gave him the pill when I’d expect them to usually deliver longer. Maybe they’re aware and trying to bring him back into the game.

His third quarter was very nice to watch but the first half I was thinking this kid is cooked.

I’m still unsure of his role at the moment.

All I know is he definitely can play and those talking of trading him surely know it’s always better to sell high and buy low.

Right now we’d get nothing for him. If he has the desire to let them, I believe the coaches need to get him back to his best.

I want him playing still and would have him above AVB, Bennell, ANB, Jones, Tomlinson, Sparrow and Harmes.

I have nothing against Sparrow but I’m surprised at the midfield minutes he’s getting that should belong to Gussy 

Edited August 5, 20204 yr by Deeko2

1 hour ago, Deeko2 said:

He definitely started the first centre bounce as I was shocked to see him there. He then spent about 2 more mins on and was benched for six to eight minutes.

It looked like a lot of guys in the third quarter we’re looking for him. I think Oliver and Trac both gave him the pill when I’d expect them to usually deliver longer. Maybe they’re aware and trying to bring him back into the game.

His third quarter was very nice to watch but the first half I was thinking this kid is cooked.

I’m still unsure of his role at the moment.

All I know is he definitely can play and those talking of trading him surely know it’s always better to sell high and buy low.

Right now we’d get nothing for him. If he has the desire to let them, I believe the coaches need to get him back to his best.

I want him playing still and would have him above AVB, Bennell, ANB, Jones, Tomlinson, Sparrow and Harmes.

I have nothing against Sparrow but I’m surprised at the midfield minutes he’s getting that should belong to Gussy 

I don't understand the praise for Sparrow tonight. He's a young kid trying to make his way. He took a really important contested mark at one point, but other than that he did very little.

Why are we crowding our midfield set up when it's clear as day that Brayshaw is damaging (and has proved to be A grade) when he plays in the midfield and is completely lost when he's outside of it.

Playing Sparrow also meant that someone like Petracca played less midfield minutes tonight in order to give Viney and Gus their minutes as well. It doesn't make sense unless they're trying to keep the mids fresh.

9 minutes ago, A F said:

I don't understand the praise for Sparrow tonight. He's a young kid trying to make his way. He took a really important contested mark at one point, but other than that he did very little.

Why are we crowding our midfield set up when it's clear as day that Brayshaw is damaging (and has proved to be A grade) when he plays in the midfield and is completely lost when he's outside of it.

Playing Sparrow also meant that someone like Petracca played less midfield minutes tonight in order to give Viney and Gus their minutes as well. It doesn't make sense unless they're trying to keep the mids fresh.

Sparrow looks really uncertain to me.  He's capable, but every time he gets the ball he immediately looks for a senior player to give off to rather than trying to make something happen himself.  Once he gets it into his head that he's allowed to try things for himself I think his game will improve out of sight. 

Was also really happy with Gus in the second half.  Did Viney cop a knock or something?  It looked like he was off for a lot of the last and Gus thrived with the inside role. 

11 minutes ago, RalphiusMaximus said:

Sparrow looks really uncertain to me.  He's capable, but every time he gets the ball he immediately looks for a senior player to give off to rather than trying to make something happen himself.  Once he gets it into his head that he's allowed to try things for himself I think his game will improve out of sight. 

Yeah, that seems like a fair enough observation. He doesn't look quite settled. Let's hope so, I just wouldn't be playing him unless it's at half forward, because I'd prefer we play Oliver, Petracca, Gus, Harmes and Viney before him in the middle.

11 minutes ago, RalphiusMaximus said:

Was also really happy with Gus in the second half. 

Me too.

11 minutes ago, RalphiusMaximus said:

Did Viney cop a knock or something?  It looked like he was off for a lot of the last and Gus thrived with the inside role. 

I did wonder about this. He kicked that goal from the forward stoppage in the last, but then was unsighted. We may have been resting him, but you're absolutely spot on. When Viney was out of there, Gus thrived.

8 hours ago, A F said:

He didn't play a minute in the midfield in the first half.

Was very good as soon as he went into the middle.

It's no coincidence that we wiped the floor with them when we played Oliver, Gus and Petracca from stoppages in the last quarter.

Yep that needs to be the starting combo wherever possible unless we need a lock down player coming in for a superstar mid.   For mine that's Harmes coming in for Tracc who goes forward for the bulk of time but still rotates with Harmes to spend a smaller chunk of time through the middle in bursts.

I'm not sure how or why SG tinkers so much with this winning formula so often.  Gus thrives in the middle and pretty much wilts playing anywhere but.  Viney is also handy for an Oliver/Tracc rotation, but like we saw in the last quarter last night he offers a tad more when pushing / playing more time forward imv.  We need his tackling ferocity and pressure i50 right now which is, too often, badly lacking at ground level.

I just don't get how any coach at this level doesn't recognise this as a winning starting set up and runs with it for the majority of the time.  Perplexing.

Edited August 5, 20204 yr by Rusty Nails

Amazing To see what happens when the coach plays a player in their correct position. He ain’t a wingman, half back or half forward, he is a midfielder.

8 hours ago, A F said:

I don't understand the praise for Sparrow tonight. He's a young kid trying to make his way. He took a really important contested mark at one point, but other than that he did very little.

Why are we crowding our midfield set up when it's clear as day that Brayshaw is damaging (and has proved to be A grade) when he plays in the midfield and is completely lost when he's outside of it.

Playing Sparrow also meant that someone like Petracca played less midfield minutes tonight in order to give Viney and Gus their minutes as well. It doesn't make sense unless they're trying to keep the mids fresh.

Why are we playing sparrow in the guts at the cost of another midfielder? Simple - we play again on Sunday. In 3 days. Sparrow and Brayshaw will again get minutes on Sunday as they look to keep everyone as fresh as possible, particularly our mids. 

People need to remember that this is not a normal season, with normal length quarters, where we complain about a couple of 5 day turn arounds. 

 

 

Edited August 5, 20204 yr by Stinger

1 minute ago, Stinger said:

Why are we playing sparrow in the guts at the cost of another midfielder? Simple - we play again on Sunday. In 3 days. Sparrow and Brayshaw will again get minutes on Sunday as they look to keep everyone as fresh as possible, particularly our mids. 

People need to remember that this is not a normal season, with normal length quarters, where we complain about a couple of 5 day turn arounds. 

 

 

Good points.  Can see Brayshaw playing the whole game in the middle vs North and Trac spending a lot of time forward.

You could see Angus' confidence building as the game went on. First half he looked like a guy afraid of making a mistake, compared to the second half where he looked more like the Angus of old. Hopefully the whole team can build some form the next few games.

2 hours ago, Rusty Nails said:

Viney is also handy for an Oliver/Tracc rotation, but like we saw in the last quarter last night he offers a tad more when pushing / playing more time forward imv.  We need his tackling ferocity and pressure i50 right now which is, too often, badly lacking at ground level.

I agree with this. Brayshaw’s 3 and 4Q was much better and I couldn’t work out why. Then realised that Viney was off, which I thought must have been due to injury. Couple of minutes later, he pops up and kicks the goal. This would seem a logical place for Viney, to add intense pressure to the forward line, rotating through the midfield as needed. The first half (with Viney in mid) we just bullocked our way forward, like a rugby scrum. Second half, we started to spread out of the contest, which is surely what we are crying out for?

No surprise, with Viney off/playing less midfield minutes, Brayshaw went into the middle for 2nd half and looked very good. He won a decent amount of ball and used it well to set up goals. 

It's further proof that both Viney and Brayshaw can't play in the same midfield. I personally think we look better with Brayshaw in the middle rather than Viney. We seem to spread and use the ball better with him there, as opposed to just crashing it forward with Viney. The midfield conundrum continues!

Edited August 5, 20204 yr by Lord Travis

Its nice to see the support for AB in this thread. 

In my eyes he has the attributes of a Jimmy Bartel and that's the player id love him to become. High draft pick, great balance in the contest, foot skills on both sides and a really good mark for his height. Bartel excelled at the inside-outside midfield role for geelong and thats the role AB brings when used correctly.  He is solid from contests but can be so damaging when he has space.  His pass down the centre to Jones from half back was brilliant and remind anyone else of 2018?

Gawn is having a great year.

Viney is having a great year.

Oliver is having a great year.

Petracca is having a great year.

We haven't beaten a top team and lie 4-5. 

AB led our inside 50s in 2018 as we 'connected' at an elite rate . Hard to do from the bench playing 70 percent of game time.  

Agree with most of the above re Gus getting more midfield minutes and confidence up etc.

I have to say though, he had more space and time then he's had all season due to the opposition. He was successful in the midfield because its his best position yes but also because every midfielder was successful last night. Was probably overall the least physical/pressure driven midfield we've played this season.

Not trying to discount his better game, his run and carry/ball use was terrific i thought at times last night and showed he is actually a quite a damaging player with his decision making and ball use. Of course you would like to see him back it up on Sunday.

Edited August 6, 20204 yr by Yung Blood

49 minutes ago, Lord Travis said:

No surprise, with Viney off/playing less midfield minutes, Brayshaw went into the middle for 2nd half and looked very good. He won a decent amount of ball and used it well to set up goals. 

It's further proof that both Viney and Brayshaw can't play in the same midfield. I personally think we look better with Brayshaw in the middle rather than Viney. We seem to spread and use the ball better with him there, as opposed to just crashing it forward with Viney. The midfield conundrum continues!

I think we should be trying to run an offensive and defensive midfield sets, with guys like Viney, Gus, Harmes and Trac roating in depending on where the game is up to. I see Gus and Trac as being very offensive players, get the ball and go deep forward at all costs, while Viney and Harmes (when in there) can bully there way a bit better or even stop/slow play if the other team is on top.

Oliver has been fine either way, but I think last night was a great example of how the midfield could work, Viney was great in the first half, bullying and smashing into their mids, then went forward when Gus came in and worked the ball forward a lot better. The big issue with Gus has been his use of the ball, he was great last night, but needs to back himself in always, even if he does make a mistake or 2. 

1 hour ago, Pickett2Jackson said:

Good points.  Can see Brayshaw playing the whole game in the middle vs North and Trac spending a lot of time forward.

See, I reckon we have to try harder at ensuring that both Trac and Gus are playing in the midfield at the same time, instead of one for the other.

And I don't necessarily agree with Sparrow being used to ensure the players are fresh. If that were the case, the other guy that is so much better as a mid and is being wasted at half back is Harmes. I'd much prefer it was him giving others the chop out and rest from the hard stuff. 

8 minutes ago, A F said:

See, I reckon we have to try harder at ensuring that both Trac and Gus are playing in the midfield at the same time, instead of one for the other.

 

Yeah for sure that has to happen in general going forward. I  was just thinking of the very short break going into Sunday and how much work Trac has done in the midfield this season.

So in other words just the one game. 

6 hours ago, Stinger said:

Why are we playing sparrow in the guts at the cost of another midfielder? Simple - we play again on Sunday. In 3 days. Sparrow and Brayshaw will again get minutes on Sunday as they look to keep everyone as fresh as possible, particularly our mids. 

People need to remember that this is not a normal season, with normal length quarters, where we complain about a couple of 5 day turn arounds. 

 

 

Good point Stinger.  The only issue is we need as many burst players escaping congestion as we can get and / or great users by hand distributing to outliers out wide so the receivers have the opportunity to use the ball nicely.

With the new (old) HTB interpretation we can no longer afford to so often attempt to gather and hang on to the ball for another ball up the way chunk (and to a lessor degree Viney & Clarry) has been doing a fair bit of in his last few seasons.

Gotta get moving and get it moving as much as possible under the shortened quarter format imv.

Edited August 6, 20204 yr by Rusty Nails

6 hours ago, Jjrogan said:

Its nice to see the support for AB in this thread. 

In my eyes he has the attributes of a Jimmy Bartel and that's the player id love him to become. High draft pick, great balance in the contest, foot skills on both sides and a really good mark for his height. Bartel excelled at the inside-outside midfield role for geelong and thats the role AB brings when used correctly.  He is solid from contests but can be so damaging when he has space.  His pass down the centre to Jones from half back was brilliant and remind anyone else of 2018?

Gawn is having a great year.

Viney is having a great year.

Oliver is having a great year.

Petracca is having a great year.

We haven't beaten a top team and lie 4-5. 

AB led our inside 50s in 2018 as we 'connected' at an elite rate . Hard to do from the bench playing 70 percent of game time.  

Nice post JJ.

One other thing caught my eye was the players you mentioned having excellent years.

Other than the ones in bold above, across the whole ground I’d say only May also is having an excellent year.

I’m not really adding much to this thread other than to say I’m worried that only 5 players in our squad are probably guaranteed a game at the moment. The others would all have/have had issues with job security week to week.

AB is just one of a large list who has been far below the output we know he can produce and like many others on the list we need to keep backing them in.

Edited August 6, 20204 yr by Deeko2

Brayshaw has to bring his second half to every game he is not consistent if that means more midfield time give it to him because if he can produce that second half more he's not tradable but ATM he is too inconsistent and should be up for trade.

I thought Gus played on M Crouch for most of the game and it just took him a half to find his balance between tackling and hunting the ball at the contest and more than anything finding his balance between sticking to Crouch and his recent style of transition defending which is just sprinting back to the backline and hoping that's useful.

It's his defensive work around the contest and around the ground that's been the big detractor of his midfield play. 

Teams are too quick and skill through the middle now and we can't just plug 2 extras off the back of centre bounces to cover. So Gus has to adapt.

A promising second half, hopefully he can keep going with it.

32 minutes ago, Deeko2 said:

Nice post JJ.

One other thing caught my eye was the players you mentioned having excellent years.

Other than the ones in bold above, across the whole ground I’d say only May also is having an excellent year.

I’m not really adding much to this thread other than to say I’m worried that only 5 players in our squad are probably guaranteed a game at the moment. The others would all have/have had issues with job security week to week.

AB is just one of a large list who has been far below the output we know he can produce and like many others on the list we need to keep backing them in.

But ironically, I'd say our defence is playing together as a unit in a much more solid way (see the scores against for the year as an example - leave out Port) than our mids are. This is the problem with our set up. Our biggest weapon, in our midfield, is not playing as a cohesive enough unit, otherwise IMV we'd be near the top of the ladder, given so much of our attack goes through the midfield.

Edited August 6, 20204 yr by A F

12 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

I thought Gus played on M Crouch for most of the game and it just took him a half to find his balance between tackling and hunting the ball at the contest and more than anything finding his balance between sticking to Crouch and his recent style of transition defending which is just sprinting back to the backline and hoping that's useful.

It's his defensive work around the contest and around the ground that's been the big detractor of his midfield play. 

Teams are too quick and skill through the middle now and we can't just plug 2 extras off the back of centre bounces to cover. So Gus has to adapt.

A promising second half, hopefully he can keep going with it.

Disagree with this mate. He hasn't been getting the ball. That's why he's been a big detractor. He needs to play in the guts, because his influence is as great as Oliver or Petracca when he's in there.

8 minutes ago, A F said:

Disagree with this mate. He hasn't been getting the ball. That's why he's been a big detractor. He needs to play in the guts, because his influence is as great as Oliver or Petracca when he's in there.

He hasn't been getting those chances and he has been playing confused because he was so hopeless last year he had to make changes. 2018 isn't coming back, see ball get ball with 2 guys covering and a high pressed backline won't cut it, it's a new game now and he has to adjust in other areas first. 

Petracca's got fitter, Viney's started to adjust his ball use, Clarry has started to use his legs to run. Gus hasn't had as much opportunity but if he adapts he'll get more of a go. Tagging that gives him a simple defensive task to build his game around is a very good idea to make the game easier for him and let him find some rhythm. 

Tonight was great to see. He was back to his damaging best and no surprise when he's played in the middle. 

We simply have to find a way of getting him more centre square time. 

Viney should play next week,  will be interesting to see if Gus is in the guts more than we've seen recently . I hope so. We all know it's where he belongs.