3 minutes ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

Is that really everything you've read about Jackson?  I'd suggest you read a little wider.

Whether he goes pick 3 or not, the kid can seriously play.

Serious question. How do you know this. There's so little footage I can't get a handle on him at all. I'd say t's not possible to get that idea without seeing him.

Edited November 24, 20195 yr by It's Time

28 minutes ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

Is that really everything you've read about Jackson?  I'd suggest you read a little wider.

Whether he goes pick 3 or not, the kid can seriously play.

Can he though? He's pushing aside undersized opponents and Taylor is grabbing him with a KPF position in mind, yet from what I've read he struggles overhead and his kicking is not the best, not to mention he hasn't played a lot forward. I just wish there was more footage

Edited November 25, 20195 yr by SFebes

3 minutes ago, SFebes said:

Can he though? He's pushing aside undersizes opponents and Taylor is grabbing his with a KPF position in mind, yet from what I've read he struggles overhead and his kicking is not the best, not to mention he hasn't played a lot forward. I just wish there was more footage

Here's the issue though. You're basing your opinion on all the potential kids on a small snippet (highlights) of the games they've played. Taylor and Co. have been watching these kids for years. If they believe that Jackson is Pick 3, than I'll back them in. You may see better highlights from the likes of young, but Young may have more more lowlights than Jackson.

Basing an opinion on a highlights package is always fraught with danger.

9 minutes ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

Bucky would have delisted Harmes at season's end too.

 

 

The 'experts' in the media really know very little outside the top 2-3 sides and players in the draft.

I was reading an article in the age that had Harrison Petty under medium/small defenders..... he is 197cm tall!

3 minutes ago, AshleyH30 said:

Here's the issue though. You're basing your opinion on all the potential kids on a small snippet (highlights) of the games they've played. Taylor and Co. have been watching these kids for years. If they believe that Jackson is Pick 3, than I'll back them in. You may see better highlights from the likes of young, but Young may have more more lowlights than Jackson.

Basing an opinion on a highlights package is always fraught with danger.

Isn't that what we are all doing? On a discussion based forum....

I'm not just going by highlights either, I'm taking into account people who've actually been to the games and provided info. I don't trust Taylor yet personally.

 

Edited November 25, 20195 yr by SFebes

19 minutes ago, SFebes said:

Can he though? He's pushing aside undersizes opponents and Taylor is grabbing his with a KPF position in mind, yet from what I've read he struggles overhead and his kicking is not the best, not to mention he hasn't played a lot forward. I just wish there was more footage

I've only seen a handful of players who aren't natural forwards turned into effective key position forwards. There's so much that goes into the position. Knowing how to read all the play down the field, knowing where to run to on a lead coupled with the skills to have running patterns to lose key backs, then kicking and marking skills. Massive risk to take someone on for this if they don't have a background in it. 

I have absolutely no idea about Jackson with any of this, there's just not enough footage. It's just got gamble written all over it. 

Honestly, I'm not concerned with his ability on the field. I have two issues with this kid. 

1. Another ruck isn't a big priority right now.
2. Chances are he'll do a Hogan and run for home the moment he has any currency.

Given he's not a clear standout over others I would prefer us taking a local kid with great skills and movement.

8 hours ago, It's Time said:

Buckenara rates him at 18 in his phantom draft. 

Seems to have gamble written all over it. Drafting for unexposed potential. Hopefully will develop into a forward, hopefully will learn to kick, hopefully will grow a few centimetres, hopefully won't go home. Hope they've done serious homework on the last point. 

Having watched the finals I would have said the standout trait we need is elite skill. Clearly not addressing that weakness here.

Gotta trust Taylor I guess. 

Buckenara has Pickett at 35. Fair to say our picks would be looking very different if he was our recruiting boss. 

Buckenara knows nothing, he is not in the system anymore 

22 minutes ago, RalphiusMaximus said:

Honestly, I'm not concerned with his ability on the field. I have two issues with this kid. 

1. Another ruck isn't a big priority right now.
2. Chances are he'll do a Hogan and run for home the moment he has any currency.

Given he's not a clear standout over others I would prefer us taking a local kid with great skills and movement.

Or take a chance with a kid who could be a once in a lifetime player.

43 minutes ago, RalphiusMaximus said:

Honestly, I'm not concerned with his ability on the field. I have two issues with this kid. 

1. Another ruck isn't a big priority right now.
2. Chances are he'll do a Hogan and run for home the moment he has any currency.

Given he's not a clear standout over others I would prefer us taking a local kid with great skills and movement.

That's not what Hogan did though was it. In fact kind of the opposite.

My concerns with Jackson are that we don't develop him properly.

Which means more than a few trips out to Casey. Time spent playing CHB to learn how key forwards move and to test his skills. Time spent playing CHF up the ground and maybe even some time on ball and on the wing.

Plus proper skill development - mostly kicking and marking as well as athletic development.

Hogan was so good in his first season that we didn't develop him as a player or as a person. Very few players go home if they are drafted to good clubs that put the right work in to them.

I would only take him with the knowledge Jesse Hogan wants to come back to Melbourne end of 2020

Would make a trade nice and easy

9 hours ago, AshleyH30 said:

Here's the issue though. You're basing your opinion on all the potential kids on a small snippet (highlights) of the games they've played. Taylor and Co. have been watching these kids for years.

Yes, it does seem like Taylor is a bit of a basketball fan. I think I heard somewhere that Pendlebury used to play b'ball as well.  

33 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

That's not what Hogan did though was it. In fact kind of the opposite.

My concerns with Jackson are that we don't develop him properly.

Which means more than a few trips out to Casey. Time spent playing CHB to learn how key forwards move and to test his skills. Time spent playing CHF up the ground and maybe even some time on ball and on the wing.

Plus proper skill development - mostly kicking and marking as well as athletic development.

Hogan was so good in his first season that we didn't develop him as a player or as a person. Very few players go home if they are drafted to good clubs that put the right work in to them.

Big stretch to blame go home factor on the Club. Something wrong with Hawthorn and Geelong? Franklin (wasn’t even go home factor) and Kelly. 

I have no idea head spinning from other prolems  st hope and pray(?) he recruiters know what they are doing. The club seems too havedkne well in other areas

go dees !!! 

5 minutes ago, It's Time said:

Big stretch to blame go home factor on the Club. Something wrong with Hawthorn and Geelong? Franklin (wasn’t even go home factor) and Kelly. 

I said very few, not none.

Franklin didn't go home, so he's irrelevant to the go home factor.

Kelly had a partner, 3 kids under 5 and two with Autism. In a fairer world he never would've been drafted interstate to begin with. In fact had there been live trading I think he would've been treated like a defacto academy player and had the WA clubs trade up for him once he got out of the first round.

Cripps, Rich, Duncan, Conigilio, Harry Taylor, Cale Hooker and so many other good WA players have had long careers at one club and others like Cameron, Franklin and O'Meara have had their reasons to move to different non WA teams.

Unless there's significant family pull or circumstances the go home factor is minimal for happy players.

1 hour ago, Demons11 said:

Buckenara knows nothing, he is not in the system anymore 

You're absolutely on the mark, unlike Jimmy

 

I’m not sure if we’ll take Jackson at 3 but it appears if we don’t, he’ll go soon after, this tells me that we aren’t out on our own and other clubs are circling him. There are probably 4 other clubs in the top ten who would jump at the chance at grabbing him.

I’ve seen additional footage of him and he really looks the goods to me, he is a really exciting player and could be anything. We can go the safe route and pick another midfielder, or go for a player who could bring some excitement and star quality to the team. 

If we could get Robertson as well it would be my dream draft, but i’m  happy if the club picks Kickett, he will be long gone by our next pick at 28, if we don’t take him he will go to the doggies.

Flanders may be a chance to be selected  

 

1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

I said very few, not none.

Franklin didn't go home, so he's irrelevant to the go home factor.

Kelly had a partner, 3 kids under 5 and two with Autism. In a fairer world he never would've been drafted interstate to begin with. In fact had there been live trading I think he would've been treated like a defacto academy player and had the WA clubs trade up for him once he got out of the first round.

Cripps, Rich, Duncan, Conigilio, Harry Taylor, Cale Hooker and so many other good WA players have had long careers at one club and others like Cameron, Franklin and O'Meara have had their reasons to move to different non WA teams.

Unless there's significant family pull or circumstances the go home factor is minimal for happy players.

I’d say more than a few.

And don’t under-estimate the amount of time, effort and money clubs put into potential targets to come back to their home state. It’s a compelling selling point.

The last three free agency / trade periods have included the following player movements, where one could easily argue the pull to go home played an important  - perhaps the dominant - role in that player’s decision to move states:

2017: Schache, Weller, N Wilson, B Matera, Gibbs, Lever, Saad, C Cameron, D Smith, Ablett, B Ah Chee, J Trengove, Crozier

2018: Conca, T Lynch, Lycett, Newman, Shiel, Colyer, Hogan, Lobb, Mayes, Scully, Stengle, Scrimshaw, Setterfield, Hannebery, Rohan, Pittard

2019: Tomlinson, T Kelly, E Langdon, Betts, Patton, Howard, Z Smith, A Keath, T Cutler, Z Jones, A Bonar, Acres

For me, the go-home factor (and why, by the way, should that exclude ‘significant family pull or circumstances’ - isn’t that what it’s all about?) is a legitimate concern to have with the recruitment of Jackson. And that’s not just because the Hogan experience is still fresh. Jackson, as talented as he is and as good as he may become, appears to be the kind of player who will take years to reach his potential, by which time the lure to go home may well be irresistible.

1 minute ago, Ben E said:

I’d say more than a few.

And don’t under-estimate the amount of time, effort and money clubs put into potential targets to come back to their home state. It’s a compelling selling point.

The last three free agency / trade periods have included the following player movements, where one could easily argue the pull to go home played an important  - perhaps the dominant - role in that player’s decision to move states:

2017: Schache, Weller, N Wilson, B Matera, Gibbs, Lever, Saad, C Cameron, D Smith, Ablett, B Ah Chee, J Trengove, Crozier

2018: Conca, T Lynch, Lycett, Newman, Shiel, Colyer, Hogan, Lobb, Mayes, Scully, Stengle, Scrimshaw, Setterfield, Hannebery, Rohan, Pittard

2019: Tomlinson, T Kelly, E Langdon, Betts, Patton, Howard, Z Smith, A Keath, T Cutler, Z Jones, A Bonar, Acres

For me, the go-home factor (and why, by the way, should that exclude ‘significant family pull or circumstances’ - isn’t that what it’s all about?) is a legitimate concern to have with the recruitment of Jackson. And that’s not just because the Hogan experience is still fresh. Jackson, as talented as he is and as good as he may become, appears to be the kind of player who will take years to reach his potential, by which time the lure to go home may well be irresistible.

Tomlinson - cash/security, he loved the Giants
Kelly - significant family reasons, as far as I can tell he liked Geelong but his family didn't
E Langdon - more to that story
Betts - nope, he's already gone 'home' to South Australia once, clearly Crows shedding cap space
Patton - nope, salary dump
Howard - not even from Victoria
Z Smith - nope, never plays at Geelong
Keath - maybe, but a big contract at his age was surely the number 1 factor
Cutler - nope, couldn't get a game at Brisbane
Z Jones - maybe, but the Saints clearly had a bigger need than the Swans for him
Bonar - nope, salary dump
Acres - didn't even want to leave

When players have a reason to leave they often go home to the state they are from. That makes perfect sense. But largely there's been a contract dispute or contract opportunity, lack of game time, coaching issues, too many good players/salary dump (GWS/Syd) or too few good players resulting in guys leaving a bad situation (Gold Coast).

Who are the regular best 22 players in good regular finals teams - non GWS - from that list.

1. Jake Lever - clear contract dispute
2. Charlie Cameron - went to where he went to school not even his families home
3. Hannebery - a salary cap dump from the Swans
4. Hogan - all sorts of stuff going on there 
5. Zak Jones (if you believe Sydney will bounce back to being a good side) -stayed in Sydney a long time and got an opportunity at the Saints for a contract
6. Kelly 

A good team with the right contract will keep the vast majority of their best players without any issues.

 

 

 

21 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

E Langdon - more to that story

Haven't heard this before. Pray tell.

The only consensus is that opinion is divided on picking Jackson.

Raw. Athletic. But footy skills and smarts need to be developed which raises queries and WA origin makes us nervous. Acknowledge JT experience gives us some cautious optimism.
 

Interesting given we all had hoped that after the 2019 disaster that we’d grab a definite top gun youngster.  Suns concession robbed MFC as Anderson was almost unanimous when we had pick 2.   Young and Green other options but all the mail is Jackson at 3.

46 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

 

R Suns concession robbed MFC as Anderson was almost unanimous when we had pick 2.  

Yup.   GIllon McLachlan and his corrupt mates can go [censored] themselves.

13 hours ago, It's Time said:

Buckenara rates him at 18 in his phantom draft. 

Seems to have gamble written all over it. Drafting for unexposed potential. Hopefully will develop into a forward, hopefully will learn to kick, hopefully will grow a few centimetres, hopefully won't go home. Hope they've done serious homework on the last point. 

Having watched the finals I would have said the standout trait we need is elite skill. Clearly not addressing that weakness here.

Gotta trust Taylor I guess. 

Buckenara has Pickett at 35. Fair to say our picks would be looking very different if he was our recruiting boss. 

Strangely he is no club's recruiting boss!

I am very conflicted...I do understand the "hype" around Luke Jackson. Big and strong and agile. But can he actually play AFL? Will he continue to grow beyond 200cms? Will his kicking improve? What if he wants to return to WA because of home sickness? These are all questions to be taken into account.

 

Nevertheless, I still believe the best option is to put a sneaky bid on Tom Green so GWS have to take him early.

 

Then go for the safe but guaranteed talent of Hayden Young with his sublime kicking skills and decision making. Something that the Demons have desperately lacked!

 

It's about time the Demons have some more players that can actually kick well on the team.

 

No more apple turn-over merchants!

 

 

In the end, I will put my faith in Jason Taylor to make the right decision. It's his neck on the line if he stuffs up.

Not thrilled about going for a ruckman when we are still two star midfielders and two star forwards away from being a top four contender.