Melbourne v Adelaide

[Decoy 0]

Are you guys for real?

How do you practice winning?

Yeah, I'm going out to practice winning today.

yeah right.

The only way you practice winning is in your dreams; and yes there's a place for that.

But there's actually a lot to practice before that. I think they know what they're doing.

But we can roll over and have another dream.

[beelzebub 23,380]

am looking forward to hearing ( or reading ) a report from someone who actually saw the game.

Anyone would think we just lost the prelim by the way some are carying on. It was just a practice game. Many of our real movers and groovers were not playing. if this was say round 7 and was showing to be apttern...well i'd be less than heartened but in the great scheme of things this game matters not one iota. Roll on game 1...now that one matters !! happy winning dreaming you all :-)

[george_on_the_outer 7,615]

we shouldn't worry about this match because we blooded a young team and are preparing for round 1. As for our game plan with our handball frenzy, we need to find some way to play on those bigger grounds or else we will lose by the same margin or it could be even worser. Though i have to admit we are overusing the handball, we should learn from the teams that can actually pull it off and follow by there example.

sorry Chief...but we aren't blooding a young side. Unlike previous years pre-season, when the likes of Davey, Bate, Dunn, Rivers, McLean, Jones, and Bartram stood up and said "you must pick me", I see nothing this year. Buckley is a maybe, but is he in the starting 22? No. Garland, Frawley, Petterd and Weetra show promise but not for 2007.

Jones, Mclean and Maloney were there last year, they are already "blooded". Yes they will get better, but that is not the case for players like Brown, Holland, White, Bizzel and Neitz. Their best is behind them. So we will have essentially the same side

going into 2007.

I don't know what the game was like because second hand reports are nothing like being there. But we lost by 10 goals again! We have won 2 of our last 9 outings! We can't go into the season proper without a winning mentality. And we cannot afford the luxury of the Swans approach to the pre-season as they didn't lose 7 of their last 9 games.

I want to be proven wrong, believe me, but at the moment I cannot see any evidence which indicates we have improved since last year.

[deestroy08 0]

There's an article on the official website re today's 'game'. Daniel Bell talks about how pleased they were with Petterd, Frawley and Garland's performances today, and the injuries that came out of the game

[Demonland 72,468]

There's an article on the official website re today's 'game'. Daniel Bell talks about how pleased they were with Petterd, Frawley and Garland's performances today, and the injuries that came out of the game

Here are the articles:-

INJURY WOES FOR DEMONS

MELBOURNE suffered a handful of injuries to cap off a disappointing day at the Blue Lake Sports Ground in Mount Gambier where it went down to Adelaide by 56 points in Saturday’s NAB Challenge clash.

Key defender/forward Ben Holland (corked hip), backman Matthew Warnock (ankle) and rookie Daniel Hughes (illness) were the casualties.

NAB CUP: YOUNG DEES OUTCLASSED BY CROWS

MATCH-DAY coach Mark Riley admitted his side was outclassed by Adelaide in Mount Gambier, but said there were positives to come out of the day.

"Everyone has had a hitout now, so that has been a real positive of the last week and today and we've got to have a look at guys under AFL intensity," he said.

"The Crows were just dominating us all over the place."

Riley said Melbourne would look at its over-use of handball.

[dees_rule_4eva 22]

When I saw the headline about our supposed "injury woes", I feared the worst. I thought maybe our top 5 players had gone down. With no disrespect to Benny Holland, Warnock or Hughes ... they are players we can cover.

[Chelly 814]

Riley said Melbourne would look at its over-use of handball.

That's somewhat of an understatement but it's not entirely correct. The problem is not the over-use of handball, rather it's the poor execution of the handball. Used properly handball can be a potent weapon; but we're simply not using it properly, efficiently or effectively.

I wasn't at the game but some friends who went said it was appalling again this week and our poor execution in the first quarter prevented us from opening a dominant lead early.

In short, our handballing is too short and the way we use it just isn't creative. Instead of opening up the play to running targets who can move the ball quickly, we're handballing short and slow to players who are static and this often gets them into trouble.

"Run and carry" is a fine buzzword but if you run and carry the football into the opposition's arms, it's NFG.

We need to improve drastically in this area and yes, it's a practice game but a very good coach once said that perfect practice makes perfect.

If that's so, we're in trouble, practice match or not - missing players or not.

[Jaded No More 68,967]

For what it's worth, West Coast went down to Essendon by 58 points today (100-42).

That's two pre-season games for two losses. I wonder if their supporters are slashing their wrists as well... they can come join the masses at Demonland

P.S.- Adelaide > Essendon

[astrodee 0]

Sydney have won one preseason game in the last 4 years. Their lack of pre-season winning really cost them dearly in the last 2 years. Yep, losing practice matches is a disaster of mammoth proportions. We should be going all out to win them - bugger the season proper.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

That's somewhat of an understatement but it's not entirely correct. The problem is not the over-use of handball, rather it's the poor execution of the handball. Used properly handball can be a potent weapon; but we're simply not using it properly, efficiently or effectively.

The problem is the tactic itself.

If players are struggling with the "execution" of the plan then there's your first hint that maybe it doesn't work for this side. If Melbourne had Judd, Kerr and Cousins then it would probably be a different story.

Anyone remember the Adelaide game at the end of last year?

It would make much more sense if the team went out with the game plan, I've nicknamed "football".

Moreover, instead of trying to use a "run and carry" tactic, a "kick it long tactic" or whatever it may be, players are instructed to play "football". Meaning that they utilise all the skills they have acquired over the years (in order to get to this elite level) and in turn use the most appropriate skill (i.e. kick, handball etc) in the most appropriate situations.

It's crazy I know, but it just may work.

Because from what I have seen and heard, this "runs and curry", I mean "run and carry" stuff just doesn't seem to be holding up.

[Axis of Bob 11,836]

We were bad a tempo footy early last year too, but it ended up being a really good tactic for us. The players need time to adjust to it.

It's a different mindset, and players need to work out what works and doesn't work for them.

[Jaded No More 68,967]

Moreover, instead of trying to use a "run and carry" tactic, a "kick it long tactic" or whatever it may be, players are instructed to play "football". Meaning that they utilise all the skills they have acquired over the years (in order to get to this elite level) and in turn use the most appropriate skill (i.e. kick, handball etc) in the most appropriate situations.

Here's a thought, the coaching staff are trying to bring a new side to our game which involves a lot of handballs (this may prove to be a winning formula interstate). Since Melbourne is mainly a kicking team, a lot of practice is needed in order to prefect this tactic. So the brain trusts at Melbourne figured they'll give the whole senior list a go this pre-season, and encourage all the players to handball as much as possible to adjust to the difference in game style.

So far, it's only been mildly successful, giving our coaching panel plenty of time to modify this tactic, so that hopefully by Round 1 the balance between kicking and handballing is as it should be.

I rather we stuff up now, and learn from our mistakes when it doesn't cost us premiership points. Radical hey?

By the way, weren't you the one who got all defensive about our 'keepings off' tactics early in 2006? And didn't that game plan win us a number of crucial games? And wouldn't it be nice if all this pre-season practice means we're fully prepared for Plans A, B & C in Round 1 (unlike last year perhaps)?

Yeah, I'm sticking with our coaches on this one.

Gees, I think I forgot after all this time just how much hysteria is bred on this site

[george_on_the_outer 7,615]

Moreover, instead of trying to use a "run and carry" tactic, a "kick it long tactic" or whatever it may be, players are instructed to play "football". Meaning that they utilise all the skills they have acquired over the years (in order to get to this elite level) and in turn use the most appropriate skill (i.e. kick, handball etc) in the most appropriate situations.

It's crazy I know, but it just may work.

Because from what I have seen and heard, this "runs and curry", I mean "run and carry" stuff just doesn't seem to be holding up.

We had all better get used to seeing this type of play in action. It is being used by other teams in the NAB cup, Hawthorn as an example last night.

It is used to beat the flood!!!

At the moment it is poorly executed which makes it doubly worse. The real concern is that it is turning the game into a game of baskeball or netball, just instead of throwing it we handball it. So we see a pack of 30 men running from one end of the field to the other handballing it among themselves.

The AFL failed to introduce rules against the flood and this is the result! Believe me, football will not be pleasant to look at this year.

[Axis of Bob 11,836]

Better mousetraps, better mice.

A tactic is introduced and coaches will find a way to beat it. The game evolves, as all games do. Or maybe we should all bemoan the demise of the drop kick.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

It is used to beat the flood!!!

The best way to beat the "flood" is through moving the ball quickly so that opposition sides don't have time to flood their own backline line.

A ball travels much faster if it is kicked 50 metres than if it is run and handpassed for 50 metres.

Long, direct kicking beats the flood.

Jaded,

This "tempo" footy may (and I say that with a great degree of uncertainty) won a few games. But it cost Melbourne a lot more.

I hope you're right though. I do hope that they find a "balance between kicking and handballing".

We'll wait and see.

[Jaded No More 68,967]

Jaded,

This "tempo" footy may (and I say that with a great degree of uncertainty) won a few games. But it cost Melbourne a lot more.

Really? When did it cost us games?

When we looked disinterested against Carlton? Or when the Bulldogs ran all over us? Or when Davey's kick for goal was ruled a point?

It never cost us games, just like this handball-crazy tactic is not costing us games (because nobody cares about pre-season matches).

Moving the ball quickly via long kicking is great in theory, but more often than not it results in the opposition's loose defender zoning off, and if your kicking is not 100% accurate, the ball will be rebounded just as quickly. How often did we see Melbourne bombing the ball long, only for it to fall into the wrong hands? It's just as frustrating, if not more frustrating, than having the players over-possess the footy but eventually land it into the hands of a forward.

[CarnTheDees 52]

Are you guys for real?

How do you practice winning?

You practice winning by practicing what you believe will be your most successful style of play, and doing so with as near full-strength side as possible. I understand that many consider the NAB cup meaningless, and that players carrying niggles should be rested, but can someone please explain to me the point of sending over a side that looks nothing like the one that will line up for us in Round 1, and instructing them to play a style of football that will more than likely not (hopefully not anyway) be employed in the 'real' matches.

Or, you could try it this way:

"Hey guys, we've got a meaningless match coming up in South Australia. All the kids will be sent over, and we're going to play some basketball while we're over there. Should be good practice for the best 22 guys when they line up against the Saints in Round 1."

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Gees, I think I forgot after all this time just how much hysteria is bred on this site

And five pages of it, no less.

For my part I'm satisfied that this is the embryonic stages of a different game-plan that Neale can implement when the time is right. People on this site have bemoaned ND's one or two dimensional game-plan for a long time. At least the coaching panel are trying to bring about change, and while I expect them to be criticised for it in the way they have been, it would be HEAPS worse if we did it during a home and away match. There's no way they would have allowed us to butcher the ball by hand for 3 quarters without ringing in SOME changes. Personally I'm stunned we kicked any goals at all with the amount of players we had out.

And for those saying that without Judd, Cousins and Kerr we can't implement this game, I would remind you that guys like Brock, Trav, Byron (when/if fit) and Bartram all have cool heads and would perhaps be more effective at this game.

For my part I saw no problem with being one of the better kicking sides in the comp. Last year we relied on far fewer possessions and we would punish teams with accuracy and penetration. I fully expect us to fall back on this when the time comes (round 1), and only to resort to over-use when the time calls for it. When we played against sides who knew how to deal with us, we looked second rate when going forward. I'm with Jaded, at least we get this garbage out of the way now, when no-one who understands footy could give a stuff what the result is.

[occo 2]

Settle down fellas. I wouldnt read much into it at all...its not an important game (shown by no comment on Sports tonight, tv coverage or radio coverage). This run and carry is a worry but if thats the style we wanna adopt now is the best time to practise it. Personally i hate the game plan but the boys know what there doing. Remember a number of our players wornt playing and someone said Jamar and White were about best on ground at some stage in the game which is encoraging. Settle down and wait for St Kilda

[Chelly 814]

What's this talk of hysteria?

Surely, it's not hysterical to discuss whether the style of game we are practising is going to advance us in the regular season or whether or not we're executing it properly?

Or is there an attempt to shut down discussion about a team that's not been particulalrly impressive over the past week or so (even allowing for the players missing and the fact that we might not have had the same preparation as our opposition)?

[Toad33 57]

We had all better get used to seeing this type of play in action. It is being used by other teams in the NAB cup, Hawthorn as an example last night.

It is used to beat the flood!!!

At the moment it is poorly executed which makes it doubly worse. The real concern is that it is turning the game into a game of baskeball or netball, just instead of throwing it we handball it. So we see a pack of 30 men running from one end of the field to the other handballing it among themselves.

The AFL failed to introduce rules against the flood and this is the result! Believe me, football will not be pleasant to look at this year.

I disagree.

The run and carry is used in conjunction with a flood.

Too many times last season we flooded back, cleared the ball from the defensive 50m arc and didn't have a target further up the ground. The run and carry, executed well, should allow us to flood and then carry the ball into a scoring area at the other end of the ground; just like the Bulldogs do.

Fast ball movement, whether by hand or foot, will be a flood.

For the record I prefer a short run and carry and a long kick. That is because even if it is a turnover, at least the ball will be further up the ground and theoretically we should have more numbers behind it.

I also have my fingers crossed that the coaching staff have the wisdom to practice our tried and true method of playing before ther real stuff starts.

Go Dees

[Decoy 0]

Carn the Dees

You practice winning by practicing what you believe will be your most successful style of play,

Yeah sure Carn the Dees. I'm just trusting the Football department on this one.

Last year we were thumped when we sent over a pretty good team for the semi final NAB but

were quite OK 3 weeks into the season proper when we nearly beat the Crows in Qld.

[CarnTheDees 52]

Here's what I'd like to see for season 2007:

Daniher comes up with the brilliant new strategy called "We don't want to score goals". It's an ingenious cross of "tempo football" with "run and carry", where all 18 players run around in circles handballing to each other on our centre half-back line. How can it not fail?

Jaded, please give me examples where playing keepings off won us games last year (as opposed to games that we happened to win by a small margin where we controlled the tempo for a brief period). And please don't suggest that the games which we were up by decisive amounts only for us to fall over the line constitutes a win for "tempo football".

And how a loss to Hawthorn and a 10-goal thrashing by Adelaide after leading by 3 goals early on can be considered mildly successful I have no idea...

Could someone who saw the games live please confirm for me whether or not we looked at all comfortable with this handball at all cost approach, because it worries me that in the space of about 18 months we've decided to go from the most direct, attacking team in the league, to one experimenting with a hanball-crazy scheme. Surely this only puts confusion in the players' minds?

[CarnTheDees 52]

Carn the Dees

You practice winning by practicing what you believe will be your most successful style of play,

Yeah sure Carn the Dees. I'm just trusting the Football department on this one.

Last year we were thumped when we sent over a pretty good team for the semi final NAB but

were quite OK 3 weeks into the season proper when we nearly beat the Crows in Qld.

You can blindly trust whoever you like. I prefer to walk around with my eyes open and be capable of my own opinions.

[Demon Jim 149]

I can't be bothered reading all this crap but the fact that North are about to beat Freo will mean all NAB cup semi-finalists are from the bottom half of the eight. Last year's premiers got thrashed by Essendon on their home ground yesterday. The first game is 4 weeks away.

Need anyone say more!!