Will Carlscum rise up the ladder?

[rjay 24,660]

Just now, Demonland said:

In reference to my comment finals success meant making and winning a final.

I can't predict whether they will win a premiership yet but I believe they are closer to getting a shot at the moment than we are.

As of this day they are.

I still think we're better placed next year, dependent of course on injury, the coach and the draft/trade period.

We still have the good foundations of a list.

[Demonland 70,419]

4 minutes ago, rjay said:

As of this day they are.

I still think we're better placed next year, dependent of course on injury, the coach and the draft/trade period.

We still have the good foundations of a list.

I truly believed that at the start of the year. I desperately hope injuries were the sole reason for our decline this year. I'm not convinced that solely was the reason but will reserve judgement until next year.

[Sir Why You Little 36,701]

5 minutes ago, rjay said:

Bolton made the mistake of coaching for the future...and he forgot about the now.

He fell for the party line.

Don't listen to the board, they will stab you in the back when it suits their purpose.

In the end it's all about winning games.

Teague came in with no expectations and put players in their best positions, to hell with development.

The biggest example was Curnow senior who was played as a permanent forward this year under Bolton.

Teague put him straight back in as a tagger, which is where he excels.

...and surprise, Carlton started to win some games.

I agree with most of that. What stumps me always is the fact that Carlscum and us can play so badly for so long with good players.  

2 weeks of bad form should be enough to instigate serious changes. Bolton did it for 4 years!!! The players loved him as a bloke, so i don’t get how these situations can drag for so long. 

This is what concerns me about Goodwin. He has to get it dead right, from October this year going forward. We have no room for failure next year. The Membership will take a hit regardless, unless we can appoint some excellent assistants. 

[rjay 24,660]

Just now, Demonland said:

I truly believed that at the start of the year. I desperately hope injuries were the sole reason for our decline this year. I'm not convinced that solely was the reason but will reserve judgement until next year.

You are misreading me by a long way if you think I believe injury was our issue this year.

I think it's one issue.

I think the list balance and coaching has been as big if not more an issue.

These things can be fixed, and hopefully will be.

Fitter list, better balanced list and a more experienced coach with back up of a good FD...

The foundation is there.

[Smokey 4,376]

15 minutes ago, Demonland said:

In reference to my comment finals success meant making and winning a final.

I can't predict whether they will win a premiership yet but I believe they are closer to getting a shot at the moment than we are.

When you are in a positive to predict that, please let me know so I can put a bunch of money in my sportsbet account. Thanks in advance! 

[demoniac 1,308]

Sadly the Blues have finally managed to transport themselves from the 1990s to the second decade of the new century.

[titan_uranus 24,790]

Carlton haven't magically risen up the ladder.

Their list should have been performing like this ages ago. Bolton was, for whatever reason, holding them back.

They're long overdue to play consistently good football and from what they've shown under Teague, they have the ability. But let's see them show it consistently when the Teague novelty factor has worn off and the games aren't all dead rubbers (FWIW I think they'll push for the 8 next year).

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,381]

 

 

 

I feel we’ve been promised this for a while...

[Sir Why You Little 36,701]

1 minute ago, titan_uranus said:

Carlton haven't magically risen up the ladder.

Their list should have been performing like this ages ago. Bolton was, for whatever reason, holding them back.

They're long overdue to play consistently good football and from what they've shown under Teague, they have the ability. But let's see them show it consistently when the Teague novelty factor has worn off and the games aren't all dead rubbers (FWIW I think they'll push for the 8 next year).

It’s the Bolton factor that interests me, why did it fail SO Badly??

[binman 42,064]

1 hour ago, Demonland said:

I truly believed that at the start of the year. I desperately hope injuries were the sole reason for our decline this year. I'm not convinced that solely was the reason but will reserve judgement until next year.

Injuries and a woeful preseason are of course not the sole reason for what has happened to us this year.

The debate in Demonland is how big a factor these twin issues (and it is important hey they are considered together) are.

In my opinion (but surely i don't need to keep repeating that, please take as a given) these twin issues are the core reason for our decline.

It goes without saying there are other issues (and they are covered on any number of treads on Demonland) but i maintain that many of them are interrelated the preseason/injury curse, for example our issues with connection and turnovers are a symptom of the aforementioned twin issues rather than a stand alone cause.

And i also maintain that the twin issues of injuries and the woeful preseason makes it very hard to accurately assess the true impact of some of the issues poster have stated as being critical (eg our game plan, goody's ability to coach).

But as Webber has pointed out there is no grey areas with the impact of poor preseasons and injuries. 

If we have a terrific preseason and have a close to a full list cherry ripe for round 1 next season and then don't suffer too badly with injuries we will make finals. But the other issues still have to be resolved for us to be a meaningful player in those finals and a lot has to go right for us to push for a top 4 position 

Edited August 15, 2019 by binman

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,381]

6 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

It’s the Bolton factor that interests me, why did it fail SO Badly??

Over coached.  Took the instinct, joy and spontaneity out of the game.

In addition, there’s the intense pressure that comes with being part of a club like Carlton.  They, more than any other club, have a messiah complex.  Whether it’s ‘highly rated’ draftees or players they’ve sold the farm to trade in.  They mount all their collective anxieties onto a few.  Pagan, Judd, Stevens, Gibbs (leadership group in 1st season), Thomas.  

Then the absurdity of believing that trading in the Giant’s 2nds team would lead to success.

Even the Stoker trade puts immense pressure on Bolton and the players to perform.  Once a couple of losses pile up, the pressure becomes intense.

 

[Sir Why You Little 36,701]

2 minutes ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

Over coached.  Took the instinct, joy and spontaneity out of the game.

In addition, there’s the intense pressure that comes with being part of a club like Carlton.  They, more than any other club, have a messiah complex.  Whether it’s ‘highly rated’ draftees or players they’ve sold the farm to trade in.  They mount all their collective anxieties onto a few.  Pagan, Judd, Stevens, Gibbs (leadership group in 1st season), Thomas.  

Then the absurdity of believing that trading in the Giant’s 2nds team would lead to success.

Even the Stoker trade puts immense pressure on Bolton and the players to perform.  Once a couple of losses pile up, the pressure becomes intense.

 

Yes, but this scenario went on for 4 years. It is totally outrageous it was allowed to go on for anything like that length. 

I know Carlscum fairly well, and am not disputing generally what you are saying, but the faults of Bolton should have been smashed out of him within 2-3 games. 

This is what worries me about Goodwin, personel change, but his game style and mantra remain the same....

[Demonland 70,419]

41 minutes ago, Smokey said:

When you are in a positive to predict that, please let me know so I can put a bunch of money in my sportsbet account. Thanks in advance! 

What and spoil the great odds I will get.

[Pennant St Dee 12,764]

2 hours ago, praha said:

They're playing good football, no doubt. They stand to be gifted an easy draw next year (like us). IMO they will taste finals success before we do.

and you told me they were no good earlier in the year  when I said they weren't far away after getting all their KPP's in and now focusing on the mids

[DubDee 24,582]

They will obviously rise up (they have been in the bottom 3 for 5 years straight) but not by that much unless they recruit or draft more talent.  Outside of Cripps and Walsh they are still light on in the midfield. fwd pressure is not great. run off half back not great. they need a reliable ruckman and their leadership aside from cripps is poor

They dont have the list to win a flag imo.  

[Deemania since 56 6,563]

4 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

The MFC AGM could be a rather fiery affair 

Strawberries ? and Cream Spin won’t cut it this year

It had better be a fiery affair - there is some cleaning up to do and the new broom will be needed to get 2020 off to a good start. 

[Bay Riffin 1,454]

12 hours ago, DemonWheels said:

If we were to play them tomorrow they'd win.

Their list will only get better this post season as they shed some older players and likely trade in some more mid aged players. Plus more development into their young guns.

It's taken a while but I think they'll shoot up the ladder pretty quick next year. Maybe not to the same heights of Brisbane this year but can see them beating the teams as high as 6th.

Being so bad for so long might actually work out for them. I think we've fluffed our chance but we'll have to wait till next year to see if we can reset the list a little.

maybe. we played them a month ago and we smashed them all over the ground in the first half but couldn't convert (for something different). 3 players down and they came back to scare us in the end. we shall see how they perform when the dust settles. Richmond did the same thing on the weekend. over by half time. they've improved but they need Cognilio to even think of hitting finals next year.

[Pennant St Dee 12,764]

B. Marchbank Jones Plowman

HB. Docherty Weitering Simpson

C. Fisher     Cripps     Cunningham

HF. SPP      Mcgovern  C. Curnow

F. Kennedy  Mckay      Settlefield

R. Kruezar, Walsh, E.Curnow

I/C Murphy, Newman, Mcreadie, Silvagni, O'Brien, Dow, 

 

Is a pretty decent list not to mention players who will come in this season along with Coniglio who pending family circumstances in WA will end up being a blue I believe 

[John Demonic 5,554]

17 hours ago, chookrat said:

I can live with being near the bottom of the ladder as long as Carlton and Essendon are there with us. I think we will play off in a GF with Carlton in the next couple of years. 

Nah, we only play off and dish out last quarter spankings to Carlton in week 1 finals