Is it only Melbourne supporters who are happy with supposedly honourable losses? I'm surprised the players didn't get a standing ovation at half time for showing the required level of intensity for a half.

I'm pretty sure Fremantle didn't turn up against Geelong thinking they would just fumble and bumble their way to a 5 goal loss. Carlton fell behind against West Coast after half time, but at least showed regained momentum at times thereafter. Ditto St Kilda. Ditto the Bulldogs. All teams that we should be well ahead of in our development.

Scoring Shots 28 v 15

Inside 50s 70 v 37

Marks Inside 50 19 v 9

The final margin flattered us and Richmond should have won that game by over 10 goals. Their goal kicking was the only thing that kept it close. 39 tackles in those conditions is pathetic - the number of times our players just halfheartedly waved their arms at a Richmond player as they strolled by was extraordinary. 14 players with zero or one tackles for the night.

Gawn was excellent around the ground, Fritsch good up forward, Petty did some decent things, Dunkley kicked two good goals. Very hard to find positives beyond that.

Oliver is so predictable with his short handpasses to teammates under pressure; Brayshaw can't find the ball; Jones & Viney are like the generals of old, fighting the war from the safety of their tents 10 miles from the front line; Lever can't kick and won't be accountable for his opponent; Preuss is a liability.

Three more honourable losses to go and we can lay this season to rest.

How typical is it of Melbourne for Dustin Martin to have his seasons best game against us - if you're out of form  play us, we'll set you right. It happens time and time again. Pathetic.

  On 04/08/2019 at 23:53, chook fowler said:

How typical is it of Melbourne for Dustin Martin to have his seasons best game against us - if you're out of form  play us, we'll set you right. It happens time and time again. Pathetic.

We can be blamed for many things 'chook' but not this one.

Martin has been in good form definitely not out of form.

Was BOG against C/wood last week with 38 touches & 2 goals (we kept him quiet, 34 touches and only 1 goal)...

  On 05/08/2019 at 00:05, rjay said:

We can be blamed for many things 'chook' but not this one.

Martin has been in good form definitely not out of form.

Was BOG against C/wood last week with 38 touches & 2 goals (we kept him quiet, 34 touches and only 1 goal)...

genuine question...do you know how many assists he was involved in in both games ?  cheers

  On 04/08/2019 at 23:49, poita said:

Is it only Melbourne supporters who are happy with supposedly honourable losses

Just a question, do you think me being accepting of the reality that we were unlikely to beat the best side in the comp is the same as being happy with it? This seems to be a common mistake made by the perennial whingers.

I'm always disappointed when we lose, no matter the week, I nearly broke my hand punching the coffee table in last qtr watching the West coast game. But I was still postive after the game.

Another sub standard performance by our Leaders (Max the exception)  

Jones , Viney, Lewis, Hibbered and Melksham combined for a grand total of 0 tackles, i ko wit wasnt that sort of game and we tried another approach, but still, the ball is in dispute a lot of the time, they should be able to lay a tackle. 

lets talk turnovers and who they come from:

Lever -6 two first round picks  for the back line general - not good enough / Hibbo - 6 a shadow of the player he was / Salem - 5 has gone backwards in last 4 weeks with his main assett skill. / Jones - 7 The captain from HB. seriously. / O Mac 4 - bloke like him cant afford any  / Brayshaw - 3 from 11 crap disposals / C Wagner 8 - from 11 disposals  

What hope have we got when  the majority of our backline turn it over so many times. 

 

 

  On 05/08/2019 at 00:10, Demon3 said:

Another sub standard performance by our Leaders (Max the exception)  

Jones , Viney, Lewis, Hibbered and Melksham combined for a grand total of 0 tackles, i ko wit wasnt that sort of game and we tried another approach, but still, the ball is in dispute a lot of the time, they should be able to lay a tackle. 

Lewis again did a brilliant job, this time on Grimes, he had 0 influence. Given his career is coming to a close and that he's paying in dead rubbers, the way Lewis is performing his role over the past month is demonstrating outstanding leadership. 

  On 05/08/2019 at 00:30, ArtificialWisdom said:

Lewis again did a brilliant job, this time on Grimes, he had 0 influence. Given his career is coming to a close and that he's paying in dead rubbers, the way Lewis is performing his role over the past month is demonstrating outstanding leadership. 

Like chatting to his opponent about wine while the ball is up the other end?  I agree he is playing a good role at the moment and that is really admirable,  but the fact is that its hard to win when leaders dont lead and our leaders, our experienced players are having very little influence on the game. 

  On 05/08/2019 at 00:07, beelzebub said:

genuine question...do you know how many assists he was involved in in both games ?  cheers

Sorry mate, don't know.

All I know is we didn't play him back into form, he's been playing back to his Brownlow best before we got there.

  On 04/08/2019 at 23:49, poita said:

Is it only Melbourne supporters who are happy with supposedly honourable losses? I'm surprised the players didn't get a standing ovation at half time for showing the required level of intensity for a half.

I'm pretty sure Fremantle didn't turn up against Geelong thinking they would just fumble and bumble their way to a 5 goal loss. Carlton fell behind against West Coast after half time, but at least showed regained momentum at times thereafter. Ditto St Kilda. Ditto the Bulldogs. All teams that we should be well ahead of in our development.

Scoring Shots 28 v 15

Inside 50s 70 v 37

Marks Inside 50 19 v 9

The final margin flattered us and Richmond should have won that game by over 10 goals. Their goal kicking was the only thing that kept it close. 39 tackles in those conditions is pathetic - the number of times our players just halfheartedly waved their arms at a Richmond player as they strolled by was extraordinary. 14 players with zero or one tackles for the night.

Gawn was excellent around the ground, Fritsch good up forward, Petty did some decent things, Dunkley kicked two good goals. Very hard to find positives beyond that.

Oliver is so predictable with his short handpasses to teammates under pressure; Brayshaw can't find the ball; Jones & Viney are like the generals of old, fighting the war from the safety of their tents 10 miles from the front line; Lever can't kick and won't be accountable for his opponent; Preuss is a liability.

Three more honourable losses to go and we can lay this season to rest.

Is it only Melbourne supporters who think that if someone finds a positive in a loss then they're "happy" with it?

Three of the clubs you've then picked out to apparently contrast with us (Carlton, St Kilda, the Dogs) lost. Sounds to me like you're suggesting they might be "happy with supposedly honourable losses".

I also love the comment that the final margin flattered us. Of course, when the final margin flatters our opponent (e.g. because we're horrendously inaccurate, or down to one on the bench), that argument never goes the other way.

And 39 tackles is pathetic, but Richmond's 45 isn't? That's barely one more tackle per quarter than us.

None of this is to say I'm "happy" with losing. I'm not. I hate 2019. I hate the promise that we were given after 2018 and having had all the excitement for this year get ripped out from under me. I hate that I'm back to going to a near-empty MCG to watch low-quality football. I hate that we've been thinking about the draft since Queen's Birthday. But that doesn't mean I can't look at a game and analyse where things are maybe working well, or improving, or even just changing from week to week in a way that suggests the FD is trying to change us for 2020.

  On 05/08/2019 at 00:09, ArtificialWisdom said:

Just a question, do you think me being accepting of the reality that we were unlikely to beat the best side in the comp is the same as being happy with it? This seems to be a common mistake made by the perennial whingers.

I'm always disappointed when we lose, no matter the week, I nearly broke my hand punching the coffee table in last qtr watching the West coast game. But I was still postive after the game.

Agree wholeheartedly.

Of course, that makes us one of the dreaded "apologists" (FWIW, I detest the phrase "wrist-slasher" as much as "apologist").

  On 05/08/2019 at 04:09, titan_uranus said:

Is it only Melbourne supporters who think that if someone finds a positive in a loss then they're "happy" with it?

Three of the clubs you've then picked out to apparently contrast with us (Carlton, St Kilda, the Dogs) lost. Sounds to me like you're suggesting they might be "happy with supposedly honourable losses".

I also love the comment that the final margin flattered us. Of course, when the final margin flatters our opponent (e.g. because we're horrendously inaccurate, or down to one on the bench), that argument never goes the other way.

And 39 tackles is pathetic, but Richmond's 45 isn't? That's barely one more tackle per quarter than us.

None of this is to say I'm "happy" with losing. I'm not. I hate 2019. I hate the promise that we were given after 2018 and having had all the excitement for this year get ripped out from under me. I hate that I'm back to going to a near-empty MCG to watch low-quality football. I hate that we've been thinking about the draft since Queen's Birthday. But that doesn't mean I can't look at a game and analyse where things are maybe working well, or improving, or even just changing from week to week in a way that suggests the FD is trying to change us for 2020.

Agree wholeheartedly.

Of course, that makes us one of the dreaded "apologists" (FWIW, I detest the phrase "wrist-slasher" as much as "apologist").

It is pathetic and i wouldnt compare it with richmond. I wouldnt compare anything to Richmond. We should have 80 plus tackles, because we  are not good enough to only have 39 tackles. the tigers are good enough to have only 45 and they dint need to tackle us to get the ball of us, they just wait till we got it and they knew we would turn it over so why tackle.

 

 

  On 04/08/2019 at 04:30, —coach— said:

See post #133 in this thread

 

  On 04/08/2019 at 04:30, —coach— said:

See post #133 in this thread

so we robbed peter to pay paul when infact peter is a more dire need than paul. I see where i went wrong. Quite silly to raise such a question. I will stick to my crossword puzzles. 

  On 05/08/2019 at 04:21, Demon3 said:

It is pathetic and i wouldnt compare it with richmond. I wouldnt compare anything to Richmond. We should have 80 plus tackles, because we  are not good enough to only have 39 tackles. the tigers are good enough to have only 45 and they dint need to tackle us to get the ball of us, they just wait till we got it and they knew we would turn it over so why tackle.

 

 

What were the numbers in the first half when we did seem to be good enough to keep the scores almost level?

  On 03/08/2019 at 12:01, praha said:

Extremely lucky to be within 5 goals. Richmond was in second gear and toyed with us. Dry conditions and they'd have run away in the second half even more than they did.

I thought that the wet actually showed that they were men, and we were boys.

  On 05/08/2019 at 05:44, sue said:

What were the numbers in the first half when we did seem to be good enough to keep the scores almost level?

Im not sure to be honest Sue, if only games went for a half.

Where is the 3 word analysis? Things must be really bad. Joeboy meant what he said.

  On 05/08/2019 at 08:17, Dee Zephyr said:

Where is the 3 word analysis? Things must be really bad. Joeboy meant what he said.

Joeboy - Mentally checked out.

MFC - Mentally checked out.

  On 04/08/2019 at 22:51, rjay said:

I think the only way to do a deliberate forensic analysis of all issues is with an external review.

Everything on the table.

The only reason for not doing it is if you have something to hide or if your ego is so big you think you have all the answers.

We've been here before.

I fear Sir Humphrey Appleby is running the club at the moment but hope I'm wrong.

Yes Rjay I agree in principle of course with your approach. I believe any review should be conducted by a carefully selected sub committee of existing football department managers to look at all aspects of the football department and their initial report and recommendations to go to a club steering committee for further analysis and final recommendations to the existing football club management prior to presentation to the Board for examination and future advice on the required action. I think it is doable if we start now, to get a strategic blueprint in place for the 2021 preseason. 

  On 05/08/2019 at 08:32, america de cali said:

Joeboy - Mentally checked out.

MFC - Mentally checked out.

In Harmes Way - Wet and Cold