Demons Grand Plan for Yarra Park Training HQ

[ding 5,126]

Another quick throw-together with the main building on Olympic Blvd (more prominent shop front), a decent car park to the south, and the oval overlapping the one we currently train on.

We can only dream...........

[deebug 1,754]

7 hours ago, ding said:

Another quick throw-together with the main building on Olympic Blvd (more prominent shop front), a decent car park to the south, and the oval overlapping the one we currently train on.

We can only dream...........

Could we build around the edge of Goschs paddock?

[Moonshadow 17,678]

Unfortunately, can't see the govt permitting further loss of green open space in the area 

[SFebes 4,884]

Collingwood will move back to Victoria Park, Dees will build a base at Goschs, everyone happy. Pert pulled out as he and Eddie have been discussing it, Government funding plus AFL funding the whole thing. The End.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 17,009]

18 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

Unfortunately, can't see the govt permitting further loss of green open space in the area 

For a really good analysis, have a look at pages 100-115 of this extremely readable academic thesis which discusses the politics of parklands when the National Tennis Centre (aka Melbourne Park and Rod Laver Arena) was first proposed. It's a fascinating read and hopefully has been looked at by the club. It explains how difficult it is to get any developments which impact on parkland in the area.

[Diamond_Jim 12,686]

8 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

For a really good analysis, have a look at pages 100-115 of this extremely readable academic thesis which discusses the politics of parklands when the National Tennis Centre (aka Melbourne Park and Rod Laver Arena) was first proposed. It's a fascinating read and hopefully has been looked at by the club. It explains how difficult it is to get any developments which impact on parkland in the area.

I love some high brow reading early in the day:

"Adopting Pierre Bourdieu’s concepts of capital, field and habitus along with Loïc Wacquant’s understanding of neoliberalism as the reengineering and redeployment of the state,I illustrate the use of elite sport as a form of cultural glue to re-regulate the city in favourof market-like mechanisms thatbenefit the urban and political elite. The Victorian state has successively re-regulated this neoliberal urban entrepreneurial strategy, often preventing dissident groups from resisting neoliberal activities,through its monopoly over the legitimate use of symbolic and material violence."

[La Dee-vina Comedia 17,009]

7 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

I love some high brow reading early in the day:

"Adopting Pierre Bourdieu’s concepts of capital, field and habitus along with Loïc Wacquant’s understanding of neoliberalism as the reengineering and redeployment of the state,I illustrate the use of elite sport as a form of cultural glue to re-regulate the city in favourof market-like mechanisms thatbenefit the urban and political elite. The Victorian state has successively re-regulated this neoliberal urban entrepreneurial strategy, often preventing dissident groups from resisting neoliberal activities,through its monopoly over the legitimate use of symbolic and material violence."

I recommend readers skip that and go straight to pages 100-115. They're the readable bits I mentioned. (Hard to believe it's the same author.)

[Moonshadow 17,678]

1 hour ago, SFebes said:

Collingwood will move back to Victoria Park, Dees will build a base at Goschs, everyone happy. Pert pulled out as he and Eddie have been discussing it, Government funding plus AFL funding the whole thing. The End.

Source?

[SFebes 4,884]

40 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

Source?

Worcestershire - I just made it up for sh1ts n gigs.

However I may have heard maybe last weekend that Pies were talking about relocating back to Victoria Park, unsure if true.

Edited May 14, 2019 by SFebes

[TGR 1,367]

Driving past Lexus/Holden centre, Collingwood regularly train under lights.  Where do we train under lights?

[La Dee-vina Comedia 17,009]

4 minutes ago, TGR said:

Driving past Lexus/Holden centre, Collingwood regularly train under lights.  Where do we train under lights?

Gameday night matches.

[TGR 1,367]

Just now, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Gameday night matches.

Amateur hour.

[Moonshadow 17,678]

24 minutes ago, TGR said:

Driving past Lexus/Holden centre, Collingwood regularly train under lights.  Where do we train under lights?

Casey?

[Moonshadow 17,678]

2 hours ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

For a really good analysis, have a look at pages 100-115 of this extremely readable academic thesis which discusses the politics of parklands when the National Tennis Centre (aka Melbourne Park and Rod Laver Arena) was first proposed. It's a fascinating read and hopefully has been looked at by the club. It explains how difficult it is to get any developments which impact on parkland in the area.

Yes, one of the differences between some of our suggestions and Collingwood's take over of OP is that OP wasn't parkland, but an already existing sporting facility, and a run down one at that.

It will be very hard to convince govt/s and other interest groups that replacing parkland with ovals or sports buildings can be sufficiently justified to the wider public.

Edited May 14, 2019 by Moonshadow

[Sorry kids 635]

31 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

Yes, one of the differences between some of our suggestions and Collingwood's take over of OP is that OP wasn't parkland, but an already existing sporting facility, and a run down one at that.

It will be very hard to convince govt/s and other interest groups that replacing parkland with ovals or sports buildings can be sufficiently justified to the wider public.

The partial answer is community facilities, community facilities, community facilities

[ManDee 7,317]

There is one obvious solution. Move back to the MCG. The surface is now managed so much better than in the past that I would be very surprised if it could not handle a few nights of training each week. The MCC should simply tell the AFL that we are moving back home. Keep Gosch's & Casey for summer training. This is such an easy solution that it borders on ridiculous, don't be surprised if it happens. Lose public land or lose some other public land or , hang on we could move back to the MCG if that helps! OK

[Deefiant 441]

1 hour ago, SFebes said:

Worcestershire - I just made it up for sh1ts n gigs.

However I may have heard maybe last weekend that Pies were talking about relocating back to Victoria Park, unsure if true.

Doubt it. Collingwood left Victoria Park in disrepair and Yarra council spent a lot of money to get it to be a community area. Cant see Yarra giving it back to Collingwood to close off again.

[Sir Why You Little 37,296]

On 5/12/2019 at 5:02 PM, Rusty Nails said:

1.  Scarcity of land and competing developers will ensure the price of doing so is unobtainable...for us.

2.  Elsternwick Park?  OD says this has been looked at and rejected already by council.  Does anyone have anything concrete on this.  Could be an option if we turn the wick up? (yes pun intended).

3.  See No.1 above.

4.  Again see No.1 plus you will more than likely have locals up in arms rejecting any major development.  Good luck getting it through.  DJ suggests too small for a major development anyway?

No we don't.  We lost it in the early 70s when we gave up our training at our home the G for Jolimont.  The fight to retain it should have happened then.  The club gave up the fight not OD! Fight over, we lost and the other clubs moved in, took their opportunities and have now outgrown us.  See the Hawks and Bombers also.  The Hawks aren't anywhere near their original roots and are about to move further out.   City area (within approx say 15 kms) unaffordable for us given our current size and presence (big end of town backing lacking etc).

A possibility but have we / are we?

Any more detail on who investigated and when OD?

Yes it can DJ!!  It's called vision and planning.  The MCC have not and will not be there for us.   Time to move on from the old romances of the 50s/60s.

I don't think one man will change 50 years of going nowhere and not having a place to call home SW.  Maybe you know something i don't about what / who he is bringing with him that will help him achieve the unachievable over 5 decades now.

It is actually 9.5kms but yes they have still had the foresight to move away from their heartland and utilise cheaper land values heading 10kms further away from their original base and the CBD.  They also have a massive member / supporter base, especially at the top end including Govt support (both sides i believe?).

I have to Disagree Rusty. We do need City Presence, why because we didn’t grow from a suburb (or patch) we are different to the other 17 clubs. We grew from from a Stadium ? that was next to inner Melbourne. 

We walked away from it once before 1981 i think it was, and became completely lost. 

The ties between the MCC and the MFC must remain strong and tight, otherwise we will slowly die. 

[La Dee-vina Comedia 17,009]

46 minutes ago, ManDee said:

There is one obvious solution. Move back to the MCG. The surface is now managed so much better than in the past that I would be very surprised if it could not handle a few nights of training each week. The MCC should simply tell the AFL that we are moving back home. Keep Gosch's & Casey for summer training. This is such an easy solution that it borders on ridiculous, don't be surprised if it happens. Lose public land or lose some other public land or , hang on we could move back to the MCG if that helps! OK

What about during the off-season when cricket is played there? Admittedly, there appear to be fewer and fewer cricket matches there each year, but while there are cricket pitches in the middle of the ground, that's going to be a problem.

Mind you, I've lost so much interest in cricket, if the powers that be are all in favour of the MFC having the MCG as its training base and moving cricket permanently elsewhere, I wouldn't object. 

[SFebes 4,884]

1 hour ago, Deefiant said:

Doubt it. Collingwood left Victoria Park in disrepair and Yarra council spent a lot of money to get it to be a community area. Cant see Yarra giving it back to Collingwood to close off again.

It was Eddie who was talking about it on TripleM, I just couldn't quite hear from the back yard. Maybe it was this they were talking about. https://www.miragenews.com/monash-university-partners-with-collingwood-fc-to-create-australia-s-leading-sports-research/

TBH I dont really care, I just want to win games of football, current players couldn't give a stuff if we have a base at MCG or somewhere else.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/hawthorn-to-get-up-to-20m-in-government-funding-if-labor-win-election-20190508-p51l60.html

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/federal-government-pledges-15-million-for-new-home-of-women-s-footy-20190209-p50wqk.html

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/when-it-comes-to-handouts-how-much-do-clubs-want-20190511-p51mbb.html

Edited May 14, 2019 by SFebes

[Diamond_Jim 12,686]

7 minutes ago, SFebes said:

It was Eddie who was talking about it on TripleM, I just couldn't quite hear from the back yard. Maybe it was this they were talking about. https://www.miragenews.com/monash-university-partners-with-collingwood-fc-to-create-australia-s-leading-sports-research/

I think this is different to the training facility. All of the clubs seem to have these medical foundations or the like attached to them. You may have noticed a club email earlier in the season from MFC about pledging a dollar amount for each win. The donation went to a "research" ? or similar arm of the MFC which made the donation tax deductible.

My cynicism tells me it's a way of getting around some aspects of the soft salary cap but I could be wrong.

 

[GM11 787]

Thoughts about the area behind Albert Park Lake.

Scope for a bit of ' community facility development' there?

 

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

10 minutes ago, GM11 said:

Thoughts about the area behind Albert Park Lake.

Scope for a bit of ' community facility development' there?

That could possibly get up if the car race was traded for it. Give the local sports clubs back their facilities the entire 365 days. Give the residents back (most of) their park.

[Demon Dynasty 17,129]

1 hour ago, Sir Why You Little said:

I have to Disagree Rusty. We do need City Presence, why because we didn’t grow from a suburb (or patch) we are different to the other 17 clubs. We grew from from a Stadium ? that was next to inner Melbourne. 

We walked away from it once before 1981 i think it was, and became completely lost. 

The ties between the MCC and the MFC must remain strong and tight, otherwise we will slowly die. 

I would happily lean towards that way of thinking SW...

If we were coming off a strong successful base and some recent (say last two decades) success with say 70k plus members.

If the cost of doing so weren't so prohibitive (CBD and nearby region) AND....

IF the MCC were right behind us and showing signs of supporting/backing us in eg; ....

?? allowing us to return to the G to train again

?? Concrete evidence that the MCC were looking to step in and help in any said discussions with local council (or the MCC Itself) to redevelop an area at our around Yarra Park....OR similar support (direct $$/helping to find or raise $$ via high level MCC backers etc) if that is not viable.

It's a nice romantic thought SW but where is any eveidence of the above from the MCC??  If you can show it to me i will happily sit up and take notice.

If not then after 35 years since being kicked off the G and just having an affiliation, like many other big clubs have with the MCC now and the Pies taking over the G and the surrounds as the main player, it's time we found our own identity.

Members / Admin / the FD and players will be much better off once we have that identity.  And part of that identity is physical bricks and mortar where you walk in and can see / feel / breathe the culture.

At this point i cant see that ever happening while we are talking Pollyanna/Walter Mitty type piece together pipe dreams in or near the CBD,  where there are just too many obstacles and financial hurdles for us (as a struggling smallish club) to go through.

Time to look elsewhere before most have gone past us in a big way and we are left in the wilderness to bemoan our inability to bite the bullet and move forward with a viable option further out.

Time to look forward....not back SW IMHO.  And part of doing that means being realistic with regard to our genuine options.

Edited May 14, 2019 by Rusty Nails

[praha 11,253]

4 hours ago, Diamond_Jim said:

I love some high brow reading early in the day:

"Adopting Pierre Bourdieu’s concepts of capital, field and habitus along with Loïc Wacquant’s understanding of neoliberalism as the reengineering and redeployment of the state,I illustrate the use of elite sport as a form of cultural glue to re-regulate the city in favourof market-like mechanisms thatbenefit the urban and political elite. The Victorian state has successively re-regulated this neoliberal urban entrepreneurial strategy, often preventing dissident groups from resisting neoliberal activities,through its monopoly over the legitimate use of symbolic and material violence."

Gee whiz, talk about saying a lot without saying much.