59 minutes ago, hells bells said:

DV8 seriously!!

Anyone with kids keen enough to put kids into a car, drive to a train station, unload kids from the car, get on the train, get off the train at Richmond... isn’t going to be put off by an extra 150m walk.

Keen enough.......  this is ,the Key', we differ on.  this is why we fail in past decades.  we do not need to attract those KEEN enough.

 

We want to attract those who are half-hearted,,, and with children. 

 

This is where we will make our new growth from.  Attracting these people and making them FEEL welcome, and not judged.

 

Those welded on's, are not the ones we should be aiming this project at...  as lovely and leafy as this Yarra Project looks, it's the wrong location,,,  for our potential NEW Growth of supporters.

 

 

Same attitude, and the very same mistakes again, as in the past.  These concepts are all based in 'pretty'. 'lovely'. and to appeal to those whom are already attached to the club. 

They are all designed for those already, in the inner-sanctum.

Edited June 21, 20186 yr by DV8

2 hours ago, daisycutter said:

ernie, yarra park is plenty big enough for both passive AND active recreation

the fact that people don't like change is axiomatic but not in itself a very compelling planning argument to a tribunal

Agree Daisy. 

57 minutes ago, DV8 said:

Do you think we are more likely to get any interested visitors, from down around Berwick, Pakenham, or Cranbourne to watch training and see Our players,,,  at Gosch's Paddock,,,, or  Yarra Park.

I'd thinking it would be better for the club to train in a secret bunker the way some of our supporters carry on.  

1 hour ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Always thought Yarra Park was controlled by Melbourne City Council.

I remember several years back there was a stoush between the Council and the MCG over the food vans outside the ground.They are on Council land and the MCG doesn't get a take on the licence fees etc for the food vans.

https://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.legislation.vic.gov.au/domino/Web_Notes/LDMS/PubPDocs_Arch.nsf/5da7442d8f61e92bca256de50013d008/ca2570ce0018ac6dca25766a001cabcd/%24FILE/561420exi1.pdf&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwiD5avi3eTbAhUMtJQKHTlBAP4QFghgMBI&usg=AOvVaw0oBHgJ4cDo8eSJJjjE4XGn

"The purpose of the Bill is to amend the Melbourne (Yarra Park) Land Act  
1980, the Melbourne Cricket Ground Act 2009 and the Conservation,  
Forests and Lands Act 1987 to revoke the appointment of the joint trustees  
of Yarra Park Reserve, revoke the appointment of the Council of the City of Melbourne as committee of management for Yarra Park Reserve, appoint the Melbourne Cricket Ground Trust ("Trust") as the committee of management for Yarra Park Reserve and to provide for effective management of the park  
and related purposes.

39 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

https://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.legislation.vic.gov.au/domino/Web_Notes/LDMS/PubPDocs_Arch.nsf/5da7442d8f61e92bca256de50013d008/ca2570ce0018ac6dca25766a001cabcd/%24FILE/561420exi1.pdf&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwiD5avi3eTbAhUMtJQKHTlBAP4QFghgMBI&usg=AOvVaw0oBHgJ4cDo8eSJJjjE4XGn

"The purpose of the Bill is to amend the Melbourne (Yarra Park) Land Act  
1980, the Melbourne Cricket Ground Act 2009 and the Conservation,  
Forests and Lands Act 1987 to revoke the appointment of the joint trustees  
of Yarra Park Reserve, revoke the appointment of the Council of the City of Melbourne as committee of management for Yarra Park Reserve, appoint the Melbourne Cricket Ground Trust ("Trust") as the committee of management for Yarra Park Reserve and to provide for effective management of the park  
and related purposes.

So it’s just down to how we pay for it?

1 hour ago, DV8 said:

Keen enough.......  this is ,the Key', we differ on.  this is why we fail in past decades.  we do not need to attract those KEEN enough.

 

We want to attract those who are half-hearted,,, and with children. 

 

This is where we will make our new growth from.  Attracting these people and making them FEEL welcome, and not judged.

 

Those welded on's, are not the ones we should be aiming this project at...  as lovely and leafy as this Yarra Project looks, it's the wrong location,,,  for our potential NEW Growth of supporters.

 

 

Same attitude, and the very same mistakes again, as in the past.  These concepts are all based in 'pretty'. 'lovely'. and to appeal to those whom are already attached to the club. 

They are all designed for those already, in the inner-sanctum.

We have the Casey alignment too.

You are basically saying that people half interested will get the train to Richmond and walk to Gosch’s Paddock, but only hard core supporters will get the train to Richmond and walk to Yarra Park. 

I can’t see the difference personally.

4 minutes ago, hells bells said:

We have the Casey alignment too.

You are basically saying that people half interested will get the train to Richmond and walk to Gosch’s Paddock, but only hard core supporters will get the train to Richmond and walk to Yarra Park. 

I can’t see the difference personally.

yeah, he's just splitting hairs. i don't get it, he should be happy. has banged on for ages about a single site and a social club and is now arguing the toss over a few hundred metres. must be something about the proximity to the dreaded northern stand

39 minutes ago, hells bells said:

We have the Casey alignment too.

You are basically saying that people half interested will get the train to Richmond and walk to Gosch’s Paddock, but only hard core supporters will get the train to Richmond and walk to Yarra Park. 

I can’t see the difference personally.

I'm saying we should try to get the people who have not made up their minds yet,,, as to footy,,, or a footy club..

IF people around our development area are half a mind to go to training, to bring the kids;,,, or the kids are nagging mum or dad, and the parent is 50/50...  having the easier access to destination could help make the decision. this is going to be a longterm thing so make it easy so wecan be in contact with as many people as we can be.

 

If they're Keen enough to get to training, then they have already selected the club.

Why try to get the the ones who are already onboard.

 

Open the club up.... don't hide it away,  so it becomes some sort of collectors item, down in Wellington Pde.

This is not the way to grow...  It's the way to survive.   To maintain, rather than to grow_

 

So, in order to attract those who aren't Melbourne...  we have to have ourselves on display,,, where anyone, and everyone can come along, and be made to feel most welcome.  

Really simple......  just have to come along, and we will gladly try to make you feel like one of us.  So we need to bee seen, from the trains and we need to be just outside the transit...  trams. trains. buses. cars. trucks. motor bikes. prams. bicycles...  even a stray dog, we can sign up.

 

Yarra Park

Who can see us from the Trains, at Yarra Park ??  seems to me, we can see them, but they can't see us.

Who can see us from the Trams, at Yarra Park ??  seems to me, we can see them, but they can't see us. 

 

It's all nice and handy for the Mcc members, and Mfc members based in the northern stand, but where's the new supporters around there?

Where....  no where.

 

This is not a growth area. Its a consolidation area.  It's a retirement package, that says remember me Demons.  Maybe we could turn it into a retirement home for lost Mcc members, as they age?

 

Because we are not going to get many people there, who are not already dedicated to a club.

.

Edited June 21, 20186 yr by DV8

11 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

yeah, he's just splitting hairs. i don't get it, he should be happy. has banged on for ages about a single site and a social club and is now arguing the toss over a few hundred metres. must be something about the proximity to the dreaded northern stand

No you don't get it because you are not in the demographic that doesn't have a following.

You are the same as the directors choosing this site.   Your all welded onto the club, and the job.

 

It's not people like you, that we can find, to help them become footy people, and become Melbourne people.

The location panders to those who are already decided in their choice.

 

I AM RAPT the club has decided to take this decision to create our home base...  absolutely R.A.P.T. 

But we (Mfc) lack base numbers of followers, supporters, and then long-term regular members who'll stay tight.

 

This decision ought NOT be thinking about MONEY... it ought be about winning new hearts and minds.  just getting big numbers of people to our training and functions. 

We ought to have a BarBQue or hotdogs at virtually every training session for our watchers alike the old Hawks once did.  time-fame of day permitting. 

We ought to think of it as breakeven, or a slight loss even;...  just to start to make good relations with people who are inquisitive about the footy club.

 

WE need big numbers coming along and getting interested, and hopefully we can start to make new supporters, and maybe even new Demon families.

Gosch's Paddock is the high Profile site, to help us to do this.

.

I have the feeling hells-bells want the supporters, who are already inclined to come along.

 

I want those who aren't Melbourne, so we can have a chance to let them fall in love with the D's. to become aligned.

Those of us who are committed, will go where-ever training is.

 

In one sence, this feels like how this club wins when things are going our way...  but when things are tougher, we sort of shrug shoulders and let it go by.

 

Lets take on the tougher challenges... REAL Change.

Edited June 21, 20186 yr by DV8

Ok agree to disagree.  I have little doubt that the team looking at the options for a new facility looked at your (or similar) options in the vicinity using Gosch’s paddock as the training oval. 

But one point on your idea about picking up new supporters.  People don’t select a football team because they go past the building regularly.

People choose a football club because of 3 main reasons.

1. The team is successful.

2. The team has exciting “star” players

3. Family influence.

You want people to fall In Love with the Dees.  Points 1 and 2 are what we need.

Why did you start barracking for the Dees Out of interest DV8.

5 minutes ago, hells bells said:

Ok agree to disagree.  I have little doubt that the team looking at the options for a new facility looked at your (or similar) options in the vicinity using Gosch’s paddock as the training oval. 

But one point on your idea about picking up new supporters.  People don’t select a football team because they go past the building regularly.

People choose a football club because of 3 main reasons.

1. The team is successful.

2. The team has exciting “star” players

3. Family influence.

You want people to fall In Love with the Dees.  Points 1 and 2 are what we need.

Why did you start barracking for the Dees Out of interest DV8.

I'm sure there is more options than three.  And i'm sure some have left a team and may look for another, and some family's turn some members off a club. 

 

We need to be like the corner store.  We need to be in the sight of all who pass the area;  and sometimes just from curiosity, or convenience, We may pickup some extra's each and every year we are there.

Eventually they will all add up.

 

We have wallowed for decades, dithered, twiddled thumbs, prayed, hoped, begged, and nearly merged, and generally done SFA.

All because we the club, have been too stubborn and afraid, to change.

Goschs paddock...on the wrong side of the road ..right next to lovely healthy Punt Road...lost among codes.. no mans land

Or

Smack bang next to the G....THE MCG......a small club hit to the new facilities from our ancestral home...the MCC.

 

Why is this even a discussion...

Make it so...

7 hours ago, hells bells said:

We have the Casey alignment too.

You are basically saying that people half interested will get the train to Richmond and walk to Gosch’s Paddock, but only hard core supporters will get the train to Richmond and walk to Yarra Park. 

I can’t see the difference personally.

Or catch the train to Flinders and jump on a tram to Wellington Pde

So to those that would consider the location of the new facilities , if Yarra Park ...next to the G ...a bit far...how do you go game day ? ?

Totally get what DV8 and hells bells are saying

how to circle the square ?

to me the access are important but so are the commercial realities. Eg pub, commercial spaces, gym , quieter access etc of the Jolimont proposal

fascinating dissection all!

Winning games, culture, stars, playing finals, snatching a flag will bring the punters. That’s the way to get members and followers, not a choice of training ground location.

As PJ said in one of his first interviews, we need to get the footy right and the rest will follow, funny how that’s eventuated, smart man, unlike the previous CEO/board.

I think the proposed choice of location is clever, albeit ambitious, but we’ll see. I just wonder if this is further down the track than we think, hence PJs resignation.

For me personally I’d go to more training sessions at the G. I think we also need to move our focus from an ageing/dying supporter base to what’s best for our future.

I don’t know what the Casey relationship is but I assumed it was a bandaid, a stand alone VFL team is also needed and one where we can train together.

Build it and they will come.

Edited June 21, 20186 yr by SFebey

We could have the MCG

And the MFG

Big G ...little G 

( Apologies to Suess (

We made a mistake a few weeks ago when we stated we were getting out of pokies. What we should have done was consolidate that announcement with this one by stating that we were intending to move the pokies from Oakleigh to a new social club to be built over the Jolimont railyards next to our new training oval. After an expected outcry from East Melbourne residents and Ellen Sandell we would then "back down" by withdrawing the pokies component. The East Melbourne residents and Ellen Sandell would have had a victory and may then have accepted the rest of the proposal.

 

I'm only half-joking.

People going to training doesn't matter. It's mainly the diehards that do that with any regularity (Although thank the gods for those on here who do and provide all the great reports!)

Family Days, held at both Casey and our city training site, are what draws in families, kids, curious newcomers etc. and people are happy to make the extra effort for that - so long as they're held at a good time but that's another issue. I'd also love it if our women's team could play a true home game that wasn't a 3-hour commute for Dees fans in the northern suburbs.

What we're looking for in a training ground is one that's got top-notch facilities, is centrally located for everyone, especially those who go there regularly - the players, coaches etc. - is connected to the administrative side of the club, and is a hub as the club's home in the city that bears our name. We want to grab people's interest where we can get it (including around Casey) and then convert that into memberships and game attendance. Who cares if those people watch training?

Luna Park probably fits our profile !

3 hours ago, puntkick said:

Luna Park probably fits our profile !

Harph harph harph.

On 6/21/2018 at 9:39 PM, DV8 said:

Are you kidding me.  These people, some will have to travel a fair way.  On a train or trains...  the whole idea of enticing new people to the club, is to make everything easy for them to start showing interest, and attendance.  

To make it as easy as possible for these potential newbies, that are not committed either way.   Those with just a hint of interest.

Surely I'm not the only one reading your posts and wondering what you're banging on about.

People with little interest in the footy have little interest in travelling into the city from Cranbourne for a training session, regardless of whether that training ground is around Gosch's Paddock or Jolimont station. Even people with a high level of interest in the footy generally have little interest - or little extra spare time to dedicate to AFL stuff - in attending training!

In my opinion this whole discussion about whether an extra hundred metres or three of walking to get to training is of importance is a complete red herring.

As bb (?) pointed out, if you're willing to go to the 'G to watch Melbourne play AFL matches - and that's the first step for people with little interest in the footy! - then you're going to face the same logistical issues in getting to our proposed training ground. Walking to the Jolimont training oval would be equivalent to walking to the Ponsford stand.

1 hour ago, Rogue said:

Surely I'm not the only one reading your posts and wondering what you're banging on about.

People with little interest in the footy have little interest in travelling into the city from Cranbourne for a training session, regardless of whether that training ground is around Gosch's Paddock or Jolimont station. Even people with a high level of interest in the footy generally have little interest - or little extra spare time to dedicate to AFL stuff - in attending training!

In my opinion this whole discussion about whether an extra hundred metres or three of walking to get to training is of importance is a complete red herring.

As bb (?) pointed out, if you're willing to go to the 'G to watch Melbourne play AFL matches - and that's the first step for people with little interest in the footy! - then you're going to face the same logistical issues in getting to our proposed training ground. Walking to the Jolimont training oval would be equivalent to walking to the Ponsford stand.

there is a multitude of reasons why Yarra Park is the wrong choice.

 

Tell me 'rog', which station would carry more people traffic to and from the Mcg? Richmond station or Jolimont station.?

Edited June 23, 20186 yr by DV8

37 minutes ago, DV8 said:

there is a multitude of reasons why Yarra Park is the wrong choice.

 

Tell me 'rog', which station would carry more people traffic to and from the Mcg? Richmond station or Jolimont station.?

In my view this is an entirely irrelevant question, and asking it indicates you've either missed - or chosen to ignore - the substance of my post. I'll play along, though; I don't know, but I assume that it's Richmond station.

Here's a question for you: Given that the proposed Yarra Park training oval is a shorter distance from Richmond station than almost all of the MCG seating, you must believe that it is necessary to move our home games to a ground that is more accessible for people from the SE suburbs, right?

Edited June 23, 20186 yr by Rogue