On 01/08/2019 at 08:23, Engorged Onion said:

Perhaps this club already knows what it is - deals with things privately, and allows things to run it's course....

Perhaps.  Yes, certainly deal with personal problems in private but there are also issues with where he is playing and how he is playing. They can be discussed in the public domain. Why the defensiveness Onion. 

From today's "The Tackle"...

 

Much like his side Melbourne, Angus Brayshaw has experienced a significant form drop off this season.

The tough on-baller, who finished third in last year’s Brownlow Medal count, has averaged 22 disposals and four marks, down from 26 possessions last season.

His ranking points dive has been telling, plunging from 95 on average in 2019 to 82 this year after a barnstorming finish to last season.

With the Demons battling in 17th, will they have to consider cashing in on Brayshaw during the coming trade period?

5. WHAT TO DO WITH ANGUS?

Brayshaw’s tormented season continued on Saturday night. The Demon midfielder won just 11 disposals, his fewest since 2016. His past five matches have been 15, 12, 15, 17 and 11. Against the Tigers coach Simon Goodwin tried him everywhere — 54 per cent midfield, 27 per cent defence, and 19 per cent forward. Maybe that’s the problem. It also might be that they were looking for a position where he could contribute. Brayshaw’s form is a mystery and you have to wonder if he’s a happy footballer. Could a trade work? There is noise about Fremantle’s Ed Langdon and Adam Cerra being targets for Victorian clubs — and Angus’s brother is already over there. It’s just a thought, and the Demons do want outside run …

  On 05/08/2019 at 04:04, Lord Nev said:

From today's "The Tackle"...

 

Much like his side Melbourne, Angus Brayshaw has experienced a significant form drop off this season.

The tough on-baller, who finished third in last year’s Brownlow Medal count, has averaged 22 disposals and four marks, down from 26 possessions last season.

His ranking points dive has been telling, plunging from 95 on average in 2019 to 82 this year after a barnstorming finish to last season.

With the Demons battling in 17th, will they have to consider cashing in on Brayshaw during the coming trade period?

5. WHAT TO DO WITH ANGUS?

Brayshaw’s tormented season continued on Saturday night. The Demon midfielder won just 11 disposals, his fewest since 2016. His past five matches have been 15, 12, 15, 17 and 11. Against the Tigers coach Simon Goodwin tried him everywhere — 54 per cent midfield, 27 per cent defence, and 19 per cent forward. Maybe that’s the problem. It also might be that they were looking for a position where he could contribute. Brayshaw’s form is a mystery and you have to wonder if he’s a happy footballer. Could a trade work? There is noise about Fremantle’s Ed Langdon and Adam Cerra being targets for Victorian clubs — and Angus’s brother is already over there. It’s just a thought, and the Demons do want outside run …

This sums it up. 

He isn't displacing Oliver from on ball. Viney can't play elsewhere. Harmes is the starting run with player and can do a a bit of inside as well as finish. 

So his role for us is to rotate into the centre when someone else gets a rest. And he isn't clean enough to play on a flank/wing for 80% of the game. Last year, with Viney injured, he was able to play inside most of the season. 

 

 

What if though, it got us the Suns Priority Pick and we traded Brayshaw to the Suns, got pick 2 and then we had Pick 3? would it change anything?

  On 05/08/2019 at 04:23, deanox said:

This sums it up. 

He isn't displacing Oliver from on ball. Viney can't play elsewhere. Harmes is the starting run with player and can do a a bit of inside as well as finish. 

So his role for us is to rotate into the centre when someone else gets a rest. And he isn't clean enough to play on a flank/wing for 80% of the game. Last year, with Viney injured, he was able to play inside most of the season. 

 

 

I think there's a common thread there... Viney.... perhaps there's a better player for his position.

Viney's upside is limited whereas we know Brayshaw has another level.

  On 05/08/2019 at 04:35, Diamond_Jim said:

I think there's a common thread there... Viney.... perhaps there's a better player for his position.

Viney's upside is limited whereas we know Brayshaw has another level.

Personally I would much rather trade Viney than Brayshaw, but it will never happen.

  On 18/06/2019 at 05:31, Lord Nev said:

I think the majority of Dees fans recognize we have weaknesses in midfield skill, outside run/pace and delivery forward, as well as us being in our 'window' as of now. I get that there's other areas we may debate with each other about, but I feel those things are pretty clear. So how do we improve those areas quickly enough that we can make the most of our chances now? This article raises a hypothetical that I scoffed at at first but have wavered a bit since thinking about it more.

Why trading Angus Brayshaw could fix Melbourne's midfield

"But Brayshaw personifies Melbourne's midfield issues - fantastic in the contest, tough as old boots and able to find the pill, but unreliable by foot. He has committed the 11th most turnovers in the league this year, with his disposal efficiency under implied pressure and physical pressure the second-worst and fourth-worst of the league's top 50 ball-winners."

It goes on to suggest trade scenarios which would see us losing Gus, and possibly a pick, to return Lachie Whitfield.

My questions are these:

- Is Gus 'untouchable' given we have Oliver, Harmes & Viney in the same role? Plus, with Sparrow and Dunkley potentially coming through in the same vein, others as depth etc.

- What do we make of Gus' massive form slump this year? You could argue it coincides with him attending less centre bounces, but there's other aspects to that as well such as his concussion history, his lack of accountability this year and of course, our lack of outside run which sees him being used there. Is he injured this year? Unhappy? Something seems up with him.

- Do we need to make such a big move or do we rely purely on tweaks to game plans, roles and structures in the offseason? I guess that boils down to trust in the footy department to fix things, which I imagine is at a low point given our performance this year.

Thoughts?

I haven't read the rest of this thread. Too long. I'll just answer the OP. 

As far as I'm concerned, Gus is untouchable. The kid came third in the Brownlow on 2/3 of a season last year. The quality is clearly there. He is also the best set shot of our young mids by a mile. 

I think his lack of form is related to both changed roles and the rule changes. As much as I hate our under 10's-style play, he thrived on the extra numbers last year. He is also clearly best utilised in the guts. Trying to push him to the wings or flanks has been a dismal failure.

As for the need to make a move, I think we have a very good list right now being coached very badly. Most of the issues are fixable but would require new direction from the fd.  I do agree that we should continue to regine our list and chase skilled outside runners, but you don't give up a player like Gus if you can avoid it. 

You watch we will trade out an inside mid or two and get some outside runners which we desperately need then next season we won’t have enough quality inside mids to feed the ball out from the stoppages. 

It would be the MFC way. 

I also think if we did trade brayshaw out he would have an outstanding career at that club. No to the trade from me. 

Brayshaws form has dropped because he's carrying an injury and bravely playing through the pain, and is also playing out of position because we have no outside run. this is why he also hasn't been dropped because the club knows his form slump isn't just related to him. 

I hope this hasn't smacked up his confidence too much and he's able to bounce back hard in 2020 with more time in the guts. 

Viney won't be, but should be ahead of Brayshaw on the trade table. we've seen the best Jack is going to be in my opinion, hard as nails midfielder, but limited, one dimensional and skills that are not up to AFL standard. 

If I had to sum up Brayshaw in one word it would be ‘ineffectual’. 

  On 05/08/2019 at 04:51, Patches O’houlihan said:

Brayshaws form has dropped because he's carrying an injury and bravely playing through the pain, and is also playing out of position because we have no outside run. this is why he also hasn't been dropped because the club knows his form slump isn't just related to him. 

I hope this hasn't smacked up his confidence too much and he's able to bounce back hard in 2020 with more time in the guts. 

Viney won't be, but should be ahead of Brayshaw on the trade table. we've seen the best Jack is going to be in my opinion, hard as nails midfielder, but limited, one dimensional and skills that are not up to AFL standard. 

I also think Viney upsets the balance of the midfield. See ball, get ball, kick ball (anywhere) or get caught with ball. Not that I’m entertaining a trade but Brayshaw’s trade value would certainly be higher than Viney’s. 

Edited August 5, 20195 yr by Ethan Tremblay

  On 05/08/2019 at 04:47, RalphiusMaximus said:

I haven't read the rest of this thread. Too long. I'll just answer the OP. 

As far as I'm concerned, Gus is untouchable. The kid came third in the Brownlow on 2/3 of a season last year. The quality is clearly there. He is also the best set shot of our young mids by a mile. 

I think his lack of form is related to both changed roles and the rule changes. As much as I hate our under 10's-style play, he thrived on the extra numbers last year. He is also clearly best utilised in the guts. Trying to push him to the wings or flanks has been a dismal failure.

As for the need to make a move, I think we have a very good list right now being coached very badly. Most of the issues are fixable but would require new direction from the fd.  I do agree that we should continue to regine our list and chase skilled outside runners, but you don't give up a player like Gus if you can avoid it. 

19 out of 22 regular season games isn't "2/3 of a season" mate, and I think the fact he wasn't invited to the Brownlow (along with him being 6th in the Bluey) tells you it wasn't a true reflection of his season.

How exactly do you think the rule changes have impacted his play, specifically?

What are you basing the set shot stats on? Over his career he's averaged 60% goal kicking accuracy in total, but I can't find any stats for set shots, so if you have somewhere you're getting that I'd love it if you could share.

  On 05/08/2019 at 04:51, Patches O’houlihan said:

Brayshaws form has dropped because he's carrying an injury and bravely playing through the pain

IF that is true (source?) then it's not brave, it's completely stupid and horrible management from the club.

  On 05/08/2019 at 04:56, Ethan Tremblay said:

I also think Viney upsets the balance of the midfield. See ball, get ball, kick ball (anywhere) or get caught with ball. 

Our midfield looks it's best when it's Oliver, Brayshaw and Harmes tagging and running off. Speed, toughness and i think better skills. Viney i would try as a pressure forward but otherwise if it was my call i'd say he would be a trade option given he'd have decent value. 

i agree, he upsets the balance quite a bit, if he's in the midfield it's his midfield he turns any structure into chaos which is great if he wins it, horrible if he doesn't because everyone is out of position.

Trading Brayshaw is curious, but the suggestions that Viney is even more tradeable is just laughable. Jack is a competitor, one of only a few that we have on the list, he like most of our players have had an ordinary year, look at his finals last year, they were amazing, he showed true grit and heart off the back of a very limited preparation. He will be fine and so will Gus.

  On 05/08/2019 at 04:58, Patches O’houlihan said:

Our midfield looks it's best when it's Oliver, Brayshaw and Harmes tagging and running off. Speed, toughness and i think better skills. Viney i would try as a pressure forward but otherwise if it was my call i'd say he would be a trade option given he'd have decent value. 

i agree, he upsets the balance quite a bit, if he's in the midfield it's his midfield he turns any structure into chaos which is great if he wins it, horrible if he doesn't because everyone is out of position.

I agree with that combination of midfielders being our best. I suggested last week that Viney should be moved into defence, probably not a great idea given his lack of accuracy. Might be worth a shot up forward. 

  On 05/08/2019 at 05:00, Demon3 said:

Trading Brayshaw is curious, but the suggestions that Viney is even more tradeable is just laughable. Jack is a competitor, one of only a few that we have on the list, he like most of our players have had an ordinary year, look at his finals last year, they were amazing, he showed true grit and heart off the back of a very limited preparation. He will be fine and so will Gus.

We made our big run to the finals without Viney, I think some overrate his importance.

Also, he's rated as the single worst kick inside 50 in the league.

But sure, everything will be fine.

I'd rate Viney's kicking as significantly worse than that of Brayshaw. At least Gus can kick off either foot 

  On 05/08/2019 at 04:31, Demon3 said:

What if though, it got us the Suns Priority Pick and we traded Brayshaw to the Suns, got pick 2 and then we had Pick 3? would it change anything?

1) Gus will need to agree to go to the sun's not even dom Tyson signed a 5 year big money deal to go there.

2) GC got reamed with the Lachie Weller trade, no way they over pay like that again 

  On 05/08/2019 at 05:04, Lord Nev said:

We made our big run to the finals without Viney, I think some overrate his importance.

Also, he's rated as the single worst kick inside 50 in the league.

But sure, everything will be fine.

I agree. The ‘everything will be ok’ is just wishful supporter thinking. Most of us have been supporting the club to know that this actually isn’t the case. Successful teams like Hawthorn get ahead of the pack and make tough calls on players before it gets too late. 

  On 05/08/2019 at 05:04, Lord Nev said:

We made our big run to the finals without Viney, I think some overrate his importance.

Also, he's rated as the single worst kick inside 50 in the league.

But sure, everything will be fine.

11 tackles in his first final, more than anyone on the ground and spent less time on the ground than anyone  and 27 disposals 17 contested both of them game high and still spent less than anyone on the ground for Melbourne in the second final, But yeah sure lets trade out a captain and a player who is 10 times more the competitor than 90% of our list.

I dont overrate his importance, i just rate his importance.

  On 05/08/2019 at 05:07, Ethan Tremblay said:

I agree. The ‘everything will be ok’ is just wishful supporter thinking. Most of us have been supporting the club to know that this actually isn’t the case. Successful teams like Hawthorn get ahead of the pack and make tough calls on players before it gets too late. 

Jack Viney is 25. Hawthorn didnt trade Sam Mitchell when he was 25. 

Clearly something is amiss with Brayshaw. On Saturday night I was able to go down to the rooms after the match, as they came down the race to the rooms Goody had his arm around Brayshaw who looked distressed.   Mind you they all looked pretty close to distressed and I was left in no doubt as a group they are hurting. I actually found the looks on their faces pretty confronting. 

Pre game McDonald spoke at the club function and said that all the players know its hard for the supporters to turn up but it means a lot to the playing group that supporters turn up. Goody also turned up briefly and said the players remain united. 

 

 

  On 05/08/2019 at 05:14, Demon3 said:

Jack Viney is 25. Hawthorn didnt trade Sam Mitchell when he was 25. 

Sam Mitchell didn't disrupt Hawthorns entire midfield structure, our midfield looks clearly better without Jack in it, but he walks into the side, and captaincy because his sir name is Viney. 

if his sir name was Brayshaw he'd 100% be on the trade block.

  On 05/08/2019 at 05:05, Moonshadow said:

I'd rate Viney's kicking as significantly worse than that of Brayshaw. At least Gus can kick off either foot 

Angus can be a great Kick when he takes the time to care and look, that hasn't happened all year.  Over their career, Jacks Disposal Eff is better and he turns it over less than Angus. But you rate it better so thats ok.