On 09/06/2019 at 03:11, Matsuo Basho said:

https://www.zerohanger.com/adam-goodes-australia-day-speech-1282/amp/

“There was a lot of anger, a lot of sorrow, for this day and very much the feeling of invasion day,” he said.

 

And he was truthful and respectful within the same words.

  On 09/06/2019 at 03:14, dieter said:

You ever been invaded, man? You ever had your land declared terra Nullus? You ever been shot at by invaders who want to run sheep on your land? 

No. Nor my parents, grandparents, great grandparents or great great grandparents as far as I know. Maybe if I trace my roots back to 1600’s Scotland I could find an instance where a genetic family member withstood an incursion by English soldiers of King James XI. I don’t know however and I really don’t care. I choose to accept the reality of the conditions I meet today and play the hand I was dealt with. 

Believe it or not there are other non-indigenous people out there who face struggles in life. No group is special in experiencing the sufferings of existence.

And I’m guessing you the individual have never been invaded or had ‘your land’ declared terra nullius, either. Unless you are a 230yo indigenous yogi living in a secret cave under Uluru.

Edited June 9, 20195 yr by Matsuo Basho

  On 09/06/2019 at 01:14, binman said:

Yes, it's on my to read list. Friends have told me it is brilliant.

I recently watched Warrick Thornton's excellent (sort of) sick We don't need a flag about the southern cross and Bruce Pasco was interviewd. Interesting fella.

Highly recommend the film for the much the same reason as you recommend Dark Emu. Great soundtrack too.

We don't need a map?

I'll have a look at it cheers.

Sweet country by Thorton was pretty cool too

It is 2019 and everyone in Australia is still grappling with reconciliation. Politicians certainly don't seem to have the answers. We should not condemn Goodes for also not being able to come up with the magic bullet. 

  On 08/06/2019 at 23:20, demonstone said:

I'm a little surprised that nobody has gone with the "PC" accusation earlier as it seems to be a coverall criticism.

"Political Correctness" is best defined as a  hackneyed, cliched term of uncertain meaning trotted out in a kneejerk manner by those of low intelligence and limited education when confronted with anything about the modern world that they just don't understand.

 

What's funny is, in almost any other circumstance, the treatment dished out to Adam Goodes would be labelled political correctness gone mad.

  On 09/06/2019 at 03:36, Brownie said:

We don't need a map?

I'll have a look at it cheers.

Sweet country by Thorton was pretty cool too

Hah auto correct. I meant doco not sick. But it is sick. In the good sense

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/king-conservatives-hated-uppity-[censored]-golfing-president-article-1.3065230

The real ,reason why Adam Goodes was booed is contained in the attached article. Australian footy supporters are happy to be amazed by the skills that our indigenous players have displayed for decades. However, God help these players if they are prepared to express an opinion or behave in a manor that is contrary to how “white Australians” see them and their place in our society.lets be honest here, there is a sizeable segment of the Australian population who don’t like “uppity black fellas”  And that my friends is why they booed Adam Goodes, and it is pathetic.

  On 09/06/2019 at 05:06, Sargent Shultz said:

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/king-conservatives-hated-uppity-[censored]-golfing-president-article-1.3065230

The real ,reason why Adam Goodes was booed is contained in the attached article. Australian footy supporters are happy to be amazed by the skills that our indigenous players have displayed for decades. However, God help these players if they are prepared to express an opinion or behave in a manor that is contrary to how “white Australians” see them and their place in our society.lets be honest here, there is a sizeable segment of the Australian population who don’t like “uppity black fellas”  And that my friends is why they booed Adam Goodes, and it is pathetic.

That is a terrible article. It cites an innocuous although obviously partisan quote by Sean Hannity and another tweet by Newt Gingrich to then go off on a wild political diatribe about racial discrimination. 

The fact that tens of millions of American voters, the majority of whom were white, swung Left to vote Obama in TWICE as President is evidence that an overwhelming majority of people in that country are NOT racist.

That being the case, you've just inadvertently made the exact opposite case to the one you so want to believe in your mind.

Edited June 9, 20195 yr by Matsuo Basho

  On 09/06/2019 at 03:30, Matsuo Basho said:

No. Nor my parents, grandparents, great grandparents or great great grandparents as far as I know. Maybe if I trace my roots back to 1600’s Scotland I could find an instance where a genetic family member withstood an incursion by English soldiers of King James XI. I don’t know however and I really don’t care. I choose to accept the reality of the conditions I meet today and play the hand I was dealt with. 

Believe it or not there are other non-indigenous people out there who face struggles in life. No group is special in experiencing the sufferings of existence.

And I’m guessing you the individual have never been invaded or had ‘your land’ declared terra nullius, either. Unless you are a 230yo indigenous yogi living in a secret cave under Uluru.

You've been dealt a rather swell hand, by the sound of it. I'd rather not discuss what happened to my family, or their land, it is totally irrelevant, as is your privileged background. Ever heard of the word Compassion?

Edited June 9, 20195 yr by dieter

  On 08/06/2019 at 03:56, demonstone said:

No, he was booed because he was a blackfella that had an opinion and spoke up about the disgraceful treatment his people had and still do endure from the less enlightened members of society.  Those people objected to an "uppity black who didn't know his place".

Anyone suggesting it wasn't racially based because other Aborigines weren't booed is missing the point entirely.  As if you have to abuse every member of a minority group before it's considered racist behaviour.  FFS.

When the docos go to air, it's a safe bet that those would benefit most and learn something from watching them will be the least likely to even tune in.

Cheers for the perspective. Makes sense

  On 09/06/2019 at 05:26, Matsuo Basho said:

That is a terrible article. It cites an innocuous although obviously partisan quote by Sean Hannity and another tweet by Newt Gingrich to then go off on a wild political diatribe about racial discrimination. 

The fact that tens of millions of American voters, the majority of whom were white, swung Left to vote Obama in TWICE as President is evidence that an overwhelming majority of people in that country are NOT racist.

That being the case, you've just inadvertently made the exact opposite case to the one you so want to believe in your mind.

Having read your other posts on this matter, I’d bet London (or in your case  Edinburgh) to a brick you were one of the people booing Goodes. Your ignorance on the plight of our indigenous if breathtaking, your willingness to express those views is bewildering 

"Institutional racism is distinguished from the explicit attitudes or racial bias of individuals by the existence of systematic policies or laws and practices that provide differential access to goods, services and opportunities of society by race. Institutional racism results in data showing racial gaps across every system. For children and families it affects where they live, the quality of the education they receive, their income, types of food they have access to, their exposure to pollutants, whether they have access to clean air, clean water or adequate medical treatment, and the types of interactions they have with the criminal justice system."

https://fpg.unc.edu/sites/fpg.unc.edu/files/resources/other-resources/What Racism Looks Like.pdf

  On 09/06/2019 at 06:20, dieter said:

You've been dealt a rather swell hand, by the sound of it. I'd rather not discuss what happened to my family, or their land, it is totally irrelevant, as is your privileged background. Ever heard of the word Compassion?

I’ve said nothing about myself other than indicate I am of white Anglo-Saxon heritage. That you believe all white people are “privileged” and have been dealt a “swell hand” underlines your own prejudices, not mine. Go spend  a few days observing people come and go at Centrelink to see just how wrong you are. 

Compassion is wonderful thing, but not blind compassion. It is right and fair to remember the past and acknowledge tragedy. If some redressment is possible in the form of affirmative action policies then enact those. But to fixate upon the misery the way some people do, defining their whole personhood on events which happened two centuries ago, runs the very real risk of that individual or group developing a VICTIM MENTALITY. 

When that type of attitude is adopted, as any psychologist will tell you, the softer side of compassion can easily devolve into something altogether unhelpful. That kind of ‘compassion’ is not really compassion at all. It’s ignorance.

  On 09/06/2019 at 06:48, Sargent Shultz said:

Having read your other posts on this matter, I’d bet London (or in your case  Edinburgh) to a brick you were one of the people booing Goodes. Your ignorance on the plight of our indigenous if breathtaking, your willingness to express those views is bewildering 

I brought your opinion crashing down with logic. All you can do is scream ‘racist’. Pathetic and embarrassing.

I am well aware of the plight of many indigenous Australians. And clearly a lot more aware than you about realities and trends in US politics. 

 

  On 09/06/2019 at 02:58, Matsuo Basho said:

I thought it was a poor speech. An opportunity missed.

What would you have him say 'Matsuo'??? what could he have said that would have taken race relations forward and not kept the status quo at best?

Put yourself in his position and give us an outline of the speech he should have made and the actions he should have taken.

  On 09/06/2019 at 03:14, dieter said:

You ever been invaded, man? You ever had your land declared terra Nullus? You ever been shot at by invaders who want to run sheep on your land? 

Goodes has never experienced being invaded.
Never had his land in Sydney declared terra nullus.
And never been shot at.
Maybe some of his ancestors 200+yrs ago.
Talk about holding a grudge.

Some of my ancestors got shot by Turks and captured, imprisoned and finally decapitated by Japanese which would have been alot more recent but guess what.
I got over it and on with my life without making a very nice living playing a game or harbouring lingering grudges on those nations or their people.
 

  On 09/06/2019 at 02:59, Fifty-5 said:

Isn't coincidence amazing!  Outspoken aboriginal player receives unprecedented booing.

To be fair I would have boo'd another AOTY recipient, white man Tim Flannery if the chance arose.
And I never actually boo'd Goodes.
But would have. 
Fork' em.

 

Edited June 9, 20195 yr by Fork 'em

  On 09/06/2019 at 07:24, Matsuo Basho said:

I brought your opinion crashing down with logic.

Next you'll be telling us that you're a stable genius.

  On 09/06/2019 at 07:50, bing181 said:

Next you'll be telling us that you're a stable genius.

Why?

  On 09/06/2019 at 07:50, bing181 said:

Next you'll be telling us that you're a stable genius.

Very good bing 

  On 09/06/2019 at 07:25, rjay said:

What would you have him say 'Matsuo'??? what could he have said that would have taken race relations forward and not kept the status quo at best?

Put yourself in his position and give us an outline of the speech he should have made and the actions he should have taken.

Bring people together. Don’t push them apart. And certainly don’t throw imaginary spears at them with your war face on.

More Barack, less bonehead. 

This kind of vibe: 

 

  On 09/06/2019 at 06:58, bing181 said:

"Institutional racism is distinguished from the explicit attitudes or racial bias of individuals by the existence of systematic policies or laws and practices that provide differential access to goods, services and opportunities of society by race. Institutional racism results in data showing racial gaps across every system. For children and families it affects where they live, the quality of the education they receive, their income, types of food they have access to, their exposure to pollutants, whether they have access to clean air, clean water or adequate medical treatment, and the types of interactions they have with the criminal justice system."

https://fpg.unc.edu/sites/fpg.unc.edu/files/resources/other-resources/What Racism Looks Like.pdf

Trouble is, the way modern society and especially economic oportunity is compartmentalised and all access is held by gatekeepers, with significant costs of entry.

So, hypothetically, you could right this moment eradicate all racism from society, and it would still take a century (or indeed, forever) to see anything resembling equality on all those indicators you mention.

If racism has been eradicated just a few generations ago, the relative fluidity of society other than discriminatory barriers would have meant that meaningful practical equality/equity would have been attained at a much faster pace.

Like some kind of hideous paradox, where one barrier has been going up even faster than other barriers have been coming down.

Meanwhile, in the opposite corner, if the statistics began recording 'bogan' as an ethnic group, they too would appear as very severely disadvantaged. And with the new modern barriers becoming so much more solid, their real experience of insurmountable disadvantage is looking more and more like discrimination too.

I just hope we don't keep on with this drift to the American style of race-politics, where a nation hypnotised by the mythology that 'opportunity is everywhere' and it is a character flaw to be poor, turns to all kinds of brands of sectarian greivance-politics and populism to insist that their group is being particularly targeted (all with some degree of valid claim), with nobody left actually confronting the new 'modern' barriers which will block progress for any and all of the currently excluded people.

 

 

 

  On 09/06/2019 at 07:24, Matsuo Basho said:

I brought your opinion crashing down with logic. All you can do is scream ‘racist’. Pathetic and embarrassing.

I am well aware of the plight of many indigenous Australians. And clearly a lot more aware than you about realities and trends in US politics. 

 

Ok - ill bite. I suspect you mostly miss the point of why i posted the article,  because when someone is expressing a view I bet you are allready composing what you believe is a witty, "oh so terribly insightful", hey everyone I'm so "DEEP" reply. I posted the article, not as in insight into US politics, but because it so acturately portrays a similar phenomenom to what happened to Adam Goodes. The relevant section for you is below.

"The racist caricature of the "uppity [censored]" has deep roots in this country. Uppity negroes have irritated white folk for over a hundred years. In its most simple form, the uppity [censored] is a black man or woman who enjoys anything other than working from sunup to sundown. Particularly, an uppity [censored] is a black man or woman who enjoys creature comforts in life that some whites may not yet be able to afford to enjoy — say a musical, a play, fine dining, or, you guessed it, a round of golf"

I'll now join the dots for you, "oh wise one"....or in the case of Adam Goodes get paid 6-8 times the average Australian salary to do something he was incredible at.

 

  On 09/06/2019 at 07:50, Fork 'em said:

Goodes has never experienced being invaded.
Never had his land in Sydney declared terra nullus.
And never been shot at.
Maybe some of his ancestors 200+yrs ago.
Talk about holding a grudge.

Some of my ancestors got shot by Turks and captured, imprisoned and finally decapitated by Japanese which would have been alot more recent but guess what.
I got over it and on with my life without making a very nice living playing a game or harbouring lingering grudges on those nations or their people.
 

To be fair I would have boo'd another AOTY recipient, white man Tim Flannery if the chance arose.
And I never actually boo'd Goodes.
But would have. 
Fork' em.

 

Some of my ancestors experienced similar. That happened in 1945 and Like you I’ve moved on. The Aboriginal experience is an ongoing issue. I ‘m sure they want to move on as well. You and I come from different cultures and backgrounds. Let’s not superimpose our experience onto theirs. There are No essential congruences that correlate. Have some respect , instead of expectations.

Edited June 9, 20195 yr by dieter

  On 09/06/2019 at 02:39, Lucifer's Hero said:

I think the campaign is to change the date from January 26 rather than eliminate the celebration.  But unfortunately the campaign was politicised as Invasion Day and Goodes became the lightning rod for a campaign which he had nothing to do with.

Federation of the existing 6 British Colonies comprising the Australian continent, occurred on Jan 1, 1901, our first federal election was on March 30, 1901and our first Prime Minister elected. 

My view is March 30 would be a very fitting Australia Day as that was the first time we had self rule, true independence and our democracy as one nation was formed. For mine it is more fitting than Jan 26, 1788 being the day Cook hoisted the British flag on our shores and claimed us as a British colony.

Lift GDP too. Seems like SFA gets done between Cup day and Australia Day.

  On 09/06/2019 at 07:16, Matsuo Basho said:

I’ve said nothing about myself other than indicate I am of white Anglo-Saxon heritage. That you believe all white people are “privileged” and have been dealt a “swell hand” underlines your own prejudices, not mine. Go spend  a few days observing people come and go at Centrelink to see just how wrong you are. 

Compassion is wonderful thing, but not blind compassion. It is right and fair to remember the past and acknowledge tragedy. If some redressment is possible in the form of affirmative action policies then enact those. But to fixate upon the misery the way some people do, defining their whole personhood on events which happened two centuries ago, runs the very real risk of that individual or group developing a VICTIM MENTALITY. 

When that type of attitude is adopted, as any psychologist will tell you, the softer side of compassion can easily devolve into something altogether unhelpful. That kind of ‘compassion’ is not really compassion at all. It’s ignorance.

Do you believe our 1st nation people's,  must adopt and live by,  our Western ways... and values,  'MB'.?