Fans Behaving Badly?

[Dame Gaga 2,453]

This supporter made a serious error if he called the umpire a bald headed pouf. According to Dictionary.com, a pouf is a high headdress with the hair rolled in puffs. Tsk, tsk. I don't know what has become of the English language nowadays. What do they teach in schools??‍♀️

[Diamond_Jim 12,686]

10 hours ago, dworship said:

Would be interesting if the patron had resisted being held. I believe what was done is getting very close to false imprisonment. Perhaps one of our legal brethren could comment. I wonder if it is a condition of entry into the ground, to give up your rights?

the famous case is about catching the ferry from Circular Quay. There's another one about a spectator that enters a tourist mine and then wants to turn around without paying.... (They're the false imprisonment cases)

For this one we have the "ticket cases" perhaps of which there are many... Is not calling the umpire a %^&&^ a condition of entry and has it been made clear before entry.

Finally we have the issue of whether he was restrained or was it volountary....

I sense a new question on the law exams at our local Unis ?

[Mydee 288]

On 6/8/2019 at 5:02 PM, Ethan Tremblay said:

Kim-Jong Gil strikes again. The supporter was never seen again 

You'll ruin his Korea with that sort of comment.

[Macca 17,113]

The umpires are never the reason for a team performing poorly.  And the umpires have never even gone close to costing us a flag.  Certainly not in any of the last 55 years.

More so inept management,  rubbish players,  poor coaching and poor culture and a losing mentality.

Face it,  we've never been good enough post the Smith era.  And that is on us.  No one else.  Control what can be controlled. 

Edited June 9, 2019 by Macca

[Paulo 285]

 most umpires couldn't give a stuff about being called a maggot, d head, idiot, [censored], ect, its when it gets personal is when it goes to far, not just umpires, anybody really, shouting abuse referencing someone's physical features is nasty and can upset some people, being called a bald poof, if that what was said, can have the same affect on someone who is racially abused

[Macca 17,113]

5 hours ago, Paulo said:

 most umpires couldn't give a stuff about being called a maggot, d head, idiot, [censored], ect, its when it gets personal is when it goes to far, not just umpires

So calling anyone a maggot,  d head,  idiot or suchlike is not personal abuse?  More 'Conditioned' thinking is almost certainly the real answer with regards to the what is or what isn't regarded as personal abuse. 

Just because the umpires don't return fire doesn't mean they aren't offended by the insults.

And it is quite difficult for the umpires to return fire anyway ... tens of thousands of rabid fans hurling abuse on a constant basis in any given game would be impossible to deal with. 

Many have never given the matter any real thought.  They've just joined in with the rest as a form of 'Rites of passage'.  Passed on through the generations.  The mob mentality and group-think rules.

The sport is impossible to umpire correctly ... therefore numerous errors & mistakes are going to be made with the adjudication of the sport.  It's nothing personal but many 'Jump the shark' and believe it is personal.

Edited June 10, 2019 by Macca

[Diamond_Jim 12,686]

Good post Macca but the AFL need to take the public along with it.

They should make it clear what will and won't be accepted ...implement a warning period which could include publicising (without names) the types of behavior they deemed inappropriate and then move to ejection.

The AFL practice will inevitably flow down to the lower leagues.

There is also the question of whether remarks deemed inappropriate against umpires should also be regarded as inappropriate if made against a player or a team.

Perhaps we need a committee that could appoint a taskforce and then move onto a summit followed by a plebiscite.

[pineapple dee 2,892]

Perhaps the way to take away any form of abuse of anyone at an AFL match would be to make ' total silence' a condition of entry to all AFL grounds. That would stop umpire abuse in its tracks. And end any nastiness between opposition fans.

Do it Gil !!!! For the good of the game.

[daisycutter 29,892]

13 minutes ago, pineapple dee said:

Perhaps the way to take away any form of abuse of anyone at an AFL match would be to make ' total silence' a condition of entry to all AFL grounds. That would stop umpire abuse in its tracks. And end any nastiness between opposition fans.

Do it Gil !!!! For the good of the game.

as long as total silence included the venue's loudspeakers too

[Macca 17,113]

59 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Good post Macca but the AFL need to take the public along with it.

They should make it clear what will and won't be accepted ...implement a warning period which could include publicising (without names) the types of behavior they deemed inappropriate and then move to ejection.

The AFL practice will inevitably flow down to the lower leagues.

There is also the question of whether remarks deemed inappropriate against umpires should also be regarded as inappropriate if made against a player or a team.

Perhaps we need a committee that could appoint a taskforce and then move onto a summit followed by a plebiscite.

Cause & effect DJ

If the footy public can be convinced that the umpires haven't got it in for their respective teams, the abuse would die down dramatically. 

But the habits of a lifetime are hard to change so good luck trying to change the thinking at the root cause. 

So what we're left with are the symptoms or the aftermath.  But how is that changed without fixing things at the root cause?  Again,  we blame the A-end of a problem.

The oldies should know better and it's they who can change the thinking ... but lets face it,  at a young age it is drummed into us (by the oldies) that the umpires are to blame.  We're taught to hate the umpires and see them as the enemy.  By the time we reach adulthood that thinking is entrenched.  Obviously not for everyone but for many. 

So I don't really have a solution other than expressing my views in forums such as these.

And I am firmly convinced that we would have easily been able to overcome the odd poor umpiring decision in the last 5 decades if the club had been a stronger club (across the board)

Teams that win flags aren't favoured by the umpires.  Unless one believes otherwise and then one would have to question the flags we won under Smith etc.

 

Edited June 10, 2019 by Macca

[Macca 17,113]

Being a sports fan and having an interest in numerous sports allows one to view our attitude towards umpires in all those sports.

With regard to abuse towards umpires/referees,  here's how I evaluate that general attitude.  And the degree of difficulty with regards to the umpiring/refereeing of the sports listed below would be similar too.

AFL 85/100

NRL 15/100

Rugby 10/100

Cricket 10/100

NFL 25/100

Soccer 25/100

NBA  15/100

MLB 20/100

NHL 10/100

Tennis 3/100

Golf 3/100

In the AFL the abuse is constant ... all throughout the games.  It never stops.  It is what we do but that doesn't make it right.

It all stems back to degree of difficulty with regards to the adjudication of the sport.  Educate at the source/root cause and it's problem solved. 

The other part to remember is that abusing the umpires is part of the sport for many.  Again,  a habit of a lifetime.  Many don't want to change and that is their right. 

Me,  I have never seen the point of the abuse. Never done it,  never will.

[DV8 2,271]

1 hour ago, pineapple dee said:

Perhaps the way to take away any form of abuse of anyone at an AFL match would be to make ' total silence' a condition of entry to all AFL grounds. That would stop umpire abuse in its tracks. And end any nastiness between opposition fans.

Do it Gil !!!! For the good of the game.

HaHa... great idea,  'p d'.

And in the silence...  if anyone is spotted breaking the Decibel restrictions,  the nearest drone could  'Taser'  them from in front.   Shown  on-screen  as a deterrent to the masses,  to behave themselves.

 

Failing that,  they could be escorted straight to the nearest food-stall and force fed,  and have to pay.

[Macca 17,113]

12 minutes ago, DV8 said:

HaHa... great idea,  'p d'.

And in the silence...  if anyone is spotted breaking the Decibel restrictions,  the nearest drone could  'Taser'  them from in front.   Shown  on-screen  as a deterrent to the masses,  to behave themselves.

 

Failing that,  they could be escorted straight to the nearest food-stall and force fed,  and have to pay.

I see the humour dl but the noise at the footy would still be quite high without the constant umpire abuse.  Just like any other sport where the umpire/referee abuse is at a minimum.

And those who don't abuse umpires don't stand around like statues ... I am quite vocal at the footy yet I never blame umpires or abuse them.  And screaming out 'ball' does not constitute umpire abuse.  Or other such verbals.

Abusing the umpires has always crossed a line in my opinion.  There is no need. 

The umpires are not out to get us nor are they plotting our downfall.  If we're measuring the whole thing by flags won in the last 5+ decades,  the umpires are the least of our concerns.  It's best not to get sidetracked.

Take today for instance - only a win is acceptable in my eyes.  We're 3 & 8 and we should be doubly determined to get back on the board.  And if we cop a few doubtful decisions we should be good enough to overcome that.

[DV8 2,271]

6 minutes ago, Macca said:

I see the humour dl but the noise at the footy would still be quite high without the constant umpire abuse.  Just like any other sport where the umpire/referee abuse is at a minimum.

And those who don't abuse umpires don't stand around like statues ... I am quite vocal at the footy yet I never blame umpires or abuse them.  And screaming out 'ball' does not constitute umpire abuse.  Or other such verbals.

Abusing the umpires has always crossed a line in my opinion.  There is no need. 

The umpires are not out to get us nor are they plotting our downfall.  If we're measuring the whole thing by flags won in the last 5+ decades,  the umpires are the least of our concerns.  It's best not to get sidetracked.

Take today for instance - only a win is acceptable in my eyes.  We're 3 & 8 and we should be doubly determined to get back on the board.  And if we cop a few doubtful decisions we should be good enough to overcome that.

 ME TOO !

But kill  'a part'  of the sum,  and risk killing the sum of the parts.

 

Freedom is just that, simple. and easy.

[Macca 17,113]

4 minutes ago, DV8 said:

 ME TOO !

But kill  'a part'  of the sum,  and risk killing the sum of the parts.

 

Freedom is just that, simple. and easy.

The sport would survive quite easily if the umpire abuse was at a minimum.

But the sport needs to be fixed so as to make it a lot easier to umpire.  I have outlined previously what I'd do to fix the sport so I won't go there again (for the time being)  The game is harder to umpire than it ever was thus causing even greater frustration. 

The AFL is at fault but they won't be putting their hands up in a hurry

 In the meantime,  nothing much will change.  It would be like trying to quell booing.  I am not advocating the outlawing of umpire abuse (although I'd rather not have to witness it) I'd rather try and convince people to calm down and see the big picture. 

And ultimately,  our club has much bigger fish to fry in order to achieve ultimate success.  We are miles off right now.

[DV8 2,271]

37 minutes ago, Macca said:

The sport would survive quite easily if the umpire abuse was at a minimum.

But the sport needs to be fixed so as to make it a lot easier to umpire.  I have outlined previously what I'd do to fix the sport so I won't go there again (for the time being)  The game is harder to umpire than it ever was thus causing even greater frustration. 

The AFL is at fault but they won't be putting their hands up in a hurry

 In the meantime,  nothing much will change.  It would be like trying to quell booing.  I am not advocating the outlawing of umpire abuse (although I'd rather not have to witness it) I'd rather try and convince people to calm down and see the big picture. 

And ultimately,  our club has much bigger fish to fry in order to achieve ultimate success.  We are miles off right now.

I agree with all of that,  in principle  'M'.

 

I am Not an umpire abuser,  and  'cringe'  when I here the white-maggot  calls. 

I also cringe when I here,  'hard as a cats-head'  calls.    Which is surely to incite sadistic cruelty as a real behaviour.   In essence,  they are really spreading and exercising they're fear and hate.

Creating more fear and hate, out in the community.

 

All these things are born Out of hatred, and fear.   And a wish to impart their desires and control over things.

Bigotry and bias are the tools.

 

"I don't know what segregation is"

 

 

Edited June 10, 2019 by DV8

[Dee Zephyr 19,269]

Taking the pizz now surely ???

From The Age

I'm not at the ballet': Cops bail up Pies fan for 'barracking too loud

A Collingwood fan at Monday's clash at the MCG claims he was threatened with eviction by half a dozen police because he was 'barracking too loud'.

He said police acknowledged he was not swearing or being abusive, and when he questioned them about the apparent problem an officer replied: "Do you hear what I said? You're barracking too loud".

[Lucifers Hero 40,509]

16 minutes ago, Dee Zephyr said:

Taking the pizz now surely ???

From The Age

I'm not at the ballet': Cops bail up Pies fan for 'barracking too loud

A Collingwood fan at Monday's clash at the MCG claims he was threatened with eviction by half a dozen police because he was 'barracking too loud'.

He said police acknowledged he was not swearing or being abusive, and when he questioned them about the apparent problem an officer replied: "Do you hear what I said? You're barracking too loud".

And AFL undercover spotters claims the Richmond Cheer Squad.

Surely the AFL has better things do than spend energy and money on stopping fans from cheering or cheering loudly. 

If these stories are even half accurate the AFL has lost the plot big time.

Edited June 11, 2019 by Lucifer's Hero

[Dee Zephyr 19,269]

4 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

And AFL undercover spotters claims the Richmond Cheer Squad.

Surely the AFL has better things do than spend energy and money on stopping fans from cheering or cheering loudly. 

If these stories are even half accurate the AFL has lost the plot big time.

Ha Ha, spotters dressed up like FBI agents, goodness me!

There are a few tweets from witnesses that go with that Age article that back up the story of the Pie fan.

People will seriously boycott soon.

[Demonstone 23,336]

The "problem" may solve itself the way the AFL is going because nobody will turn up if this farce continues.

[Demonland 73,465]

 

[Dame Gaga 2,453]

What hypocrites! When I questioned a police officer at the Giants game why the loudmouths who were abusing and baiting Melbourne supporters, with their children (some of whom were very upset by the constant barrage) below them were allowed back into their seats (which were MFC members seats) after being taken away, his only reply was they were allowed to. Are they being selective in choosing who to speak to or take away? Sometimes the abuser is clever enough not to swear, but it is the way they use their loud voice and their language to intimidate others. For example, the young children near me were made to feel like they were losers simply by supporting Melbourne. I wouldn't blame families for not wanting to take their children to the football anymore. And this was in an alcohol free area. But they were subject to abuse from above because those fools were allowed to drink. More alcohol free areas should be allocated.

Just a thought- are interstate supporters given the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the criteria of what constitutes abuse or loud barracking? Hmmm....

[Dame Gaga 2,453]

5 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

And AFL undercover spotters claims the Richmond Cheer Squad.

Surely the AFL has better things do than spend energy and money on stopping fans from cheering or cheering loudly. 

If these stories are even half accurate the AFL has lost the plot big time.

"1984" turned 70 years old recently. Every day George Orwell is proven to be a genius. He only got the year wrong. The Thought Police are here and among us. The AFL are adept at  Doublespeak. I see the AFL Fans Association wants a list of words people can say and can't say at the football. How has it come to this? As my dear old Dad used to say - the world has gone mad.

[Wadda We Sing 10,685]

They used to be called "White Maggots" back in the day. Its been a common catch cry since the early 1970s. Its simply an expression of frustration at a decision whether its right or wrong. Im sure the umpires have been hearing it since umpire school. Id love to hear what the players call them.

[sue 9,172]

On 6/10/2019 at 1:11 AM, Macca said:

The umpires are never the reason for a team performing poorly.  And the umpires have never even gone close to costing us a flag.  Certainly not in any of the last 55 years.

More so inept management,  rubbish players,  poor coaching and poor culture and a losing mentality.

Face it,  we've never been good enough post the Smith era.  And that is on us.  No one else.  Control what can be controlled. 

No the umpires have never cost us a flag.  But dare I say it: there is more to footy than winning the flag.   The poor standard of umpiring and the clear biases which have been documented are not excused by our incompetence. ( I'm not saying you were saying that it was.)