19 hours ago, Clint Bizkit said:

We’ve played finals once since 2007 and are currently in 17th having only (just) beaten bottom sides this year after winning two finals last year.

How the heck am I supposed to react?

You can react however you want. But you've chosen a pessimistic reaction, which is par for the course for you.

An alternative would be to consider 2019 in the context of 2014-2018. Given the changes the club implemented and the progress we made over those five years, alongside the capabilities this list showed in 2018, I don't believe the only reasonable reaction is to say we're back to 2007 (or back to 2014, or back to anything really). I'm more than happy to say I believe we can turn it around in time for 2020.

And before anyone misinterprets, this doesn't mean I think we will turn it around. It means I think we can turn it around. 

9 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

I am hoping the CEO steps up once this 2019 horror show is over. He ran The Filth very well for many years, we need that growth right now, we are back to being “The Pathetic Joke” again in the wider community and it has to be sorted this off season  

We cannot afford to fall short. We have done that too often

Pert said yesterday "we are talking 5 ,6,or 7 years"

What planet is this guy on?

9 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

You can react however you want. But you've chosen a pessimistic reaction, which is par for the course for you.

An alternative would be to consider 2019 in the context of 2014-2018. Given the changes the club implemented and the progress we made over those five years, alongside the capabilities this list showed in 2018, I don't believe the only reasonable reaction is to say we're back to 2007 (or back to 2014, or back to anything really). I'm more than happy to say I believe we can turn it around in time for 2020.

And before anyone misinterprets, this doesn't mean I think we will turn it around. It means I think we can turn it around. 

Bottom 4 finish  8 years  in the last 20. Another miserable record is ours.

47 minutes ago, Kent said:

Pert said yesterday "we are talking 5 ,6,or 7 years"

What planet is this guy on?

WOW.  Would you mind posting more info or a link?

12 hours ago, Lord Travis said:

Darcy Fogarty just kicked 5 goals against the Eagles. As I posted a week or two ago here, he should definitely be targeted as a forward marking and goal kicking option. Aggressive, strong, clunks marks, kicks straight, he’s got everything we need as a forward target. 

The irony is Crows recruited him with the first pick we traded for Lever.

Crows will fight to keep him to replace Jenkins.  So to get Forgarty now would cost us big time in draft picks and I doubt we have the sal cap space.

I watched the filth game and completely changed my view on what’s needed for 2020 and a more competitive Dees... ( not forgetting better pre season preparation, better luck with injuries and some learnings in the coaching department) ... I was pushing a cull and Hill, Langdon Butler, Cutler, Patton Thomlinson, ZJones etc.. but I’ve had some sort of epiphany or lobotomy or was it that bag of gunya I picked up last week in Upper Main Arm...

now my thinking is that what we desperately need is at least 2 A graders in the middle.. You can’t win unless you have someone who can tear the game apart (and there’s your leadership factor as well)... The guys we have who we thought might do it have plateaued.. Oliver doesn’t take the game on but racks up meaningless handball stats (he is no Martin, Danger, Coniglio, Yeo, Treloar, Boak, Neale...)Salem racks up 15 metre soft kicks sideways (cf. Houli, Wilson, Hurn, Crisp...) Trac although improving still isn’t winning us games etc for Viney, Harmes, ...

What about Max you say... indeed we have Max and we should be pounding every other team especially with 666..

And so my take on the draft is that we have to use pick 2 (we are not going to be this low again..ever) on Anderson or if it’s 3 on Green ... see Knightmares summaries ... potential match winners.. even if they take 2 years to start showing their class..

But our big play must be for an A grade mid ... and we pay whatever it takes... Coniglio is my preference and the Giants can have anyone they want bar Max, and our 2020 first and 2021 first..or whatever.. 

Then we embellish our issues within the list ... RUN... with Langdon and Zac Jones, for players or picks. FORWARD PRESSURE ... Butler...and so it goes on..

 

5 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

The irony is Crows recruited him with the first pick we traded for Lever.

Crows will fight to keep him to replace Jenkins.  So to get Forgarty now would cost us big time in draft picks and I doubt we have the sal cap space.

Not to mention it's a very Weid like performance. 1 big goal haul in a season and all of a sudden a 21 YEAR OLD KPF that's spent most of the season in the two's will fill all our forwardline holes immediately? Try maybe in 2-3 years. I'd prefer Jenkins, Tmac instantly takes 2nd defender, Weid 3rd and we're back to the dynamic of 2018, at very little cost.

Edited August 11, 20195 yr by John Demonic

18 minutes ago, grey wolf said:

I watched the filth game and completely changed my view on what’s needed for 2020 and a more competitive Dees... ( not forgetting better pre season preparation, better luck with injuries and some learnings in the coaching department) ... I was pushing a cull and Hill, Langdon Butler, Cutler, Patton Thomlinson, ZJones etc.. but I’ve had some sort of epiphany or lobotomy or was it that bag of gunya I picked up last week in Upper Main Arm...

now my thinking is that what we desperately need is at least 2 A graders in the middle.. You can’t win unless you have someone who can tear the game apart (and there’s your leadership factor as well)... The guys we have who we thought might do it have plateaued.. Oliver doesn’t take the game on but racks up meaningless handball stats (he is no Martin, Danger, Coniglio, Yeo, Treloar, Boak, Neale...)Salem racks up 15 metre soft kicks sideways (cf. Houli, Wilson, Hurn, Crisp...) Trac although improving still isn’t winning us games etc for Viney, Harmes, ...

What about Max you say... indeed we have Max and we should be pounding every other team especially with 666..

And so my take on the draft is that we have to use pick 2 (we are not going to be this low again..ever) on Anderson or if it’s 3 on Green ... see Knightmares summaries ... potential match winners.. even if they take 2 years to start showing their class..

But our big play must be for an A grade mid ... and we pay whatever it takes... Coniglio is my preference and the Giants can have anyone they want bar Max, and our 2020 first and 2021 first..or whatever.. 

Then we embellish our issues within the list ... RUN... with Langdon and Zac Jones, for players or picks. FORWARD PRESSURE ... Butler...and so it goes on..

 

Interesting take. It was Xavier Ellis on his podcast that said at the start of the year that our midfield was overrated and we did not actually have any A-graders,  predicting Oliver was not one yet, nor would be this year to the exasperation of the other hosts. He gets a tick for that currently. Then a month back, he also said that we shouldn't be targeting any forwards or wingers at a high cost, but another elite mid. He used Rory Sloane as an example of a 1 elite midfielder that we needed in there and a big trade like that would at least change the dynamic of our midfield group that could accelerate our development. Whether it's a 25 year old mid of a 30 year old mid, we're still lacking 1 elite mid. Sloane probably ungettable, but we can use our imaginations.

Edit: Hawthorn add Mitchell/O'Meara, Essendon add Shiel (B+ though), Carlton/Hawthorn will probably add Coniglio. Melbourne might need to come up with a particular move over the next 2 off-seasons. I also have to wonder, if Goodwin/FD see Ed Langdon as a player, like Melksham, that can keep trending upwards and become elite at their position. Elite enough to play that impacting outside mid role, and not just a roaming wing/hb

Edited August 11, 20195 yr by John Demonic

Watched the VFL game between the tigers and the Northern Blues,  gee the tigers have built a great list, there were 6/7 players that would be in out side in that reserves team.

the one i think could be  a good target is Townsend. He is tough ( we need that) skilled ( we need that) and would be pretty cheap ( always helps) and is super competitive.

Might be a good option.

4 hours ago, Kent said:

Pert said yesterday "we are talking 5 ,6,or 7 years"

What planet is this guy on?

This quote has been taken out of context. By Robbo in the Herald Sun in particular.

What Pert said was that to be a big club and have respect you need to have success over a long period, "we are talking 5, 6 or 7 years". Not just one year.

https://www.3aw.com.au/pies-prevail-despite-spirited-demons-fightback/

4 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

WOW.  Would you mind posting more info or a link?

As posted above, that's not what he said.

4 hours ago, John Demonic said:

Not to mention it's a very Weid like performance. 1 big goal haul in a season and all of a sudden a 21 YEAR OLD KPF that's spent most of the season in the two's will fill all our forwardline holes immediately? Try maybe in 2-3 years. I'd prefer Jenkins, Tmac instantly takes 2nd defender, Weid 3rd and we're back to the dynamic of 2018, at very little cost.

Agree re: your comments on Fogarty. 

Not sure I agree re: Jenkins, who I don't rate. I do understand the logic though, in getting someone established who might be able to take the first defender, or if not then the second which takes pressure of Weideman. My concern is that I don't think Jenkins will do much for us and so won't hold a spot in the 22, or the first defender.

3 hours ago, Demon3 said:

Watched the VFL game between the tigers and the Northern Blues,  gee the tigers have built a great list, there were 6/7 players that would be in out side in that reserves team.

the one i think could be  a good target is Townsend. He is tough ( we need that) skilled ( we need that) and would be pretty cheap ( always helps) and is super competitive.

Might be a good option.

I’ve thought the same re Townsend. Not sure if I’ve mentioned here or another forum. But we lack the solid citizen types. Guys that can play a role even if they are depth. Look at Collingwood. Players like Mayne Varcoe Greenwood Aish Roughead. That’s how you absorb injuries. Not with first or second year players. 

1 minute ago, Hunt29 said:

I’ve thought the same re Townsend. Not sure if I’ve mentioned here or another forum. But we lack the solid citizen types. Guys that can play a role even if they are depth. Look at Collingwood. Players like Mayne Varcoe Greenwood Aish Roughead. That’s how you absorb injuries. Not with first or second year players. 

Yep spot on, he is an upgarde on our role players, ANB, Billy, great replacement for AVB if he doesnt  get back on the park, JKH.. 

On 8/7/2019 at 6:40 PM, spirit of norm smith said:

So if Hawks get Brad Hill back (80% likely) and Langdon stays at Freo (50/50) .... what then ???

 I am happy to go the draft with picks 2 & 20 and let JT weave his magic. 

Magic, when and how often.

Do we get a few extra draft picks and first dibs on the best state league players like Carlton and Gold Coast did last year?

I hope we are not one of the clubs who gets caught up in paying over the top for Tigers VFL standard players who play to a system.

Townshend, skilled player I've heard it all now. 

If you want ground ball pressure by all means target a couple of them but Tigers need to clear the decks for a little salary relief 

17 hours ago, Hunt29 said:

I am concerned about this. Goodwin wants immediate results. Hopefully Mahoney and co are smarter than that. 

Actually, I am not sure what Goodwin wants. He has led a talented bunch up the garden path for too long now ... leaving most of them under-developed and uncertain of a footy career. He has no breadth to his thinking and his ability to impart that thinking and alternatives for effectiveness seem sadly lacking. 

8 minutes ago, Pennant St Dee said:

I hope we are not one of the clubs who gets caught up in paying over the top for Tigers VFL standard players who play to a system.

Townshend, skilled player I've heard it all now. 

If you want ground ball pressure by all means target a couple of them but Tigers need to clear the decks for a little salary relief 

Townsend has more skill than ANB, More grunt than JKH, and is stronger than Billy Stretch, so in my eyes, he is an upgrade on all 3. 

 

17 minutes ago, Demon3 said:

Townsend has more skill than ANB, More grunt than JKH, and is stronger than Billy Stretch, so in my eyes, he is an upgrade on all 3.

He might be an upgrade on all 3 but still average at best.

Townsend is the type of half forward we already have. 

Need fast skilled midfielders.  Hill and Langdon types

2 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

He might be an upgrade on all 3 but still average at best.

Yeah look he  isn't going to win a brownlow i agree. But ,my points stands that he would be an option should we try and turn some of the list over and get our depth in a bit better shape.

1 hour ago, Demon3 said:

Yep spot on, he is an upgarde on our role players, ANB, Billy, great replacement for AVB if he doesnt  get back on the park, JKH.. 

 Honestly do you lot just say these names just for the sake of it? Is this also the same Jacob Townsend that registered riverting 3 disposals for the whole game in his last game for  against Geelong couple of weeks ago. Sorry but he is an even bigger spud.

Did the old Mitch Morton 'hit a rich vein of form at the perfect time' back in the 2017 finals run.

The true definition of a dud.

Edited August 12, 20195 yr by dazzledavey36

Just now, spirit of norm smith said:

Townsend is the type of half forward we already have. 

Need fast skilled midfielders.  Hill and Langdon types

I agree with what we need, that is clear that pace and skill are our number 1 priorities. But we need to get better return from depth players and he would be better that ANB and JKH, we cant just accept that thees blokes might improve and therefor improve us, they haven't and they wont.

31 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

 Honestly do you lot just say these names just for the sake of it? Is this also the same Jacob Townsend that registered riverting 3 disposals for the whole game in his last game for  against Geelong couple of weeks ago. Sorry but he is an even bigger spud.

Did the old Mitch Morton 'hit a rich vein of form at the perfect time' back in the 2017 finals run.

The true definition of a dud.

He is a better player than AVB simply because he gets on the park, he also had more tackles than Rioli Higgins and Stack that day, yep 3 touches isnt great but they got beaten by 67 points so it wasn't a great day for lost of them

We need to keep turning our depth players over, he is an option, happy for you to disagree.

 

Edited August 12, 20195 yr by Demon3

We have 10 senior list players and 8 rookie list players OOC:

Goodwin is quoted as saying there will be big list changes. 

But it is hard to see much trade value in many of OOC players.  Frost is best prospect.  Baker another but wouldn't want to trade him.  Will we keep more than 6-8 of those 18 players?

If the 'big changes' are from these lists I can't see how we will have the 'currency' to make big improvements with a quick impact. 

So I'm bracing for one or more of our 'big name' or better players being traded out.