What to do with Nathan Jones

[Sir Why You Little 37,036]

Disgraceful article. 

Jones is the one who can no longer pull his weight, it happens to all players

But that article is a f?$&@ing joke

[Red and Blue realist 2,051]

Just because it's pointing out some truths about our best players,  doesn't mean it's wrong. At least one area we should be able to clean up our stoppage leakage pretty quickly, but that's put too much pressure on the defense which is getting a hiding from everyone on here. This has been mentioned in the midfield thread but the article gets it 100% right and is backed up with the stats:

Talented with the ball in hand and tough inside the contest, opponents have begun to realise that Clayton Oliver, Angus Brayshaw, James Harmes and Jack Viney don't seem to want to work as hard this season as they did at the end of last year to help out a defence that has begun to leak like a colander held under a waterfall.

Melbourne are the worst team in the competition in relation to scores from stoppages so far this season having conceded 25 more points from stoppages than they have scored in the first three rounds.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

Why is it that every article these days is looked at as a 'puff piece', or we have a plethora of posters asking the players to 'shut up' when they are being interviewed?  

When are people going to realise that this is part of football now?  Articles will be written and players will speak with the media, regardless of whether or not we're 3-0 or 0-3.  It's going to happen.  Trotting out the 'blah blah all talk, I want action on the field' is all well and good, but it's going to happen.  If you don't like the talk, don't listen to it.  Seriously.  If you don't like 'puff pieces' then don't [censored] read them.  

As for this one - there is merit in it.  Stats show we have been struggling from stoppages, and who spends most of their time in there?  We all know who.  We need everyone pulling their weight, and while some players are finding the ball enough, they aren't then trying to ensure that the opposition doesn't have it.

[IvanBartul13 2,564]

It doesn't automatically follow that points from stoppages is indicative of laziness on behalf of our midfield core.  We are still the number one clearance team in the competition but have dropped from 2nd to 17th in contested marking and from  1st to 11th in inside 50 marks.  Scores from stoppages against could just as much an indicator of opposition efficient ball use as it is a black mark against the work ethic of the midfielders.  Of course that could be an ingredient.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

18 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Disgraceful article. 

Jones is the one who can no longer pull his weight, it happens to all players

But that article is a f?$&@ing joke

Why?

[Sir Why You Little 37,036]

6 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Why?

Because Jones is not pulling his weight. He has hit the wall. I saw it last year

the whole article should be inverted, journalism is an absolute shambles these days. 

Essendrug targeted Jones as the weak link to play through...

[beelzebub 23,376]

According to Goodwin he'll stay on the wing ? 

.. because he's so good there !! ??

[Sir Why You Little 37,036]

2 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

According to Goodwin he'll stay on the wing ? 

.. because he's so good there !! ??

Such innovation..

[rjay 24,928]

Well written article by Ryan I would have thought.

Our midfield for whatever reason have become lazy, they are downhill skiers at the moment.

The other big problem and probably the main reason we are getting scored against so much from stoppages is that they are not playing as a unit. I include Max in this, he's a key part of that unit. It's every man for himself...

Viney is always problematic, it's his nature to see ball get ball and then try and break tackles. It's not always (most often) the best option...he needs to be a team player and hopefully this was pointed out to him in the "circle of truth"...

Harmes can be a bit selfish with the ball particularly around goal...

So currently we have a lazy, selfish and disorganised midfield, a virtually non existent forward line and a VFL level defence.

It's no wonder we a 0-3.

Turning around the midfield will go a long way to making that 1-4...

 

[Macca 16,969]

Apart from Jones ...

Harmes,  Melksham,  Petracca,  T-Mac,  Jetta,  Hibberd & Viney aren't doing anywhere near enough as well

Salem & Gawn can play better too.

That is 10 senior/best players not playing up to scratch.  In a nutshell,  that is the issue.

3 other automatics are injured ... Lever,  May & Lewis ... thus creating undue pressure on an undermanned defence.  Our defence is also under seige because of our issues further afield.

[TGR 1,367]

20 minutes ago, rjay said:

 

So currently we have a lazy, selfish and disorganised midfield, a virtually non existent forward line and a VFL level defence.

 

 

Why stop there?  Why not add in something about the coaching staff, medical staff, dieticians and psychs?

 

Our first tier midfield (Broliver) has been carrying the side.  Full-stop.  Gawn has had a decent 2 weeks, with Scott admitting he pantsed Stanley.

As Barassi would say "give me GPS and I will shut up'.

 

The media and many posters just look at the scoreboard and then conclude that A, B & C are lazy selfish and disorganised.  The media and many posters look at 0-3 and THEN start questioning recruiting and selection.  Generals after the war is just lazy with non-existent thinking.

 

The figures don't back you up at all; but I would say our 2nd tier midfield utilities (ANB etc...) could be seen as lazy with a preference of being first to the front half having a shot at goal, at the expense of implementing instant defence and running hard back to help and fill dangerous space.

 

Any criticism of Broliver in the media and here is a joke.  44 hard-earned possessions aint enough in hostile territory against the hottest side in the comp?

[Wiseblood 24,637]

58 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Because Jones is not pulling his weight. He has hit the wall. I saw it last year

the whole article should be inverted, journalism is an absolute shambles these days. 

Essendrug targeted Jones as the weak link to play through...

You're missing the point.  He isn't saying Jones isn't part of the problem - just that our other midfielders are also not working hard enough defensively.  It's not just on Jones individually, it's on all players to lift.  That's the gist of the article to me.

 

[rjay 24,928]

7 minutes ago, TGR said:

The figures don't back you up at all;

I would think they do...

1 hour ago, Red and Blue realist said:

Melbourne are the worst team in the competition in relation to scores from stoppages so far this season having conceded 25 more points from stoppages than they have scored in the first three rounds.

Say's it all really...

[Red and Blue realist 2,051]

5 minutes ago, TGR said:

Why stop there?  Why not add in something about the coaching staff, medical staff, dieticians and psychs?

 

Our first tier midfield (Broliver) has been carrying the side.  Full-stop.  Gawn has had a decent 2 weeks, with Scott admitting he pantsed Stanley.

As Barassi would say "give me GPS and I will shut up'.

 

The media and many posters just look at the scoreboard and then conclude that A, B & C are lazy selfish and disorganised.  The media and many posters look at 0-3 and THEN start questioning recruiting and selection.  Generals after the war is just lazy with non-existent thinking.

 

The figures don't back you up at all; but I would say our 2nd tier midfield utilities (ANB etc...) could be seen as lazy with a preference of being first to the front half having a shot at goal, at the expense of implementing instant defence and running hard back to help and fill dangerous space.

 

Any criticism of Broliver in the media and here is a joke.  44 hard-earned possessions aint enough in hostile territory against the hottest side in the comp?

So you didn't notice how easy it was for Essendon to waltz out of the center last week? Max won the taps and it was too easy for them too often, now that's not our only problem. And I'm not suggesting for 1 second that Brayshaw and Oliver haven't been our best players so far, but while they've still be getting the same amount of possessions as last year, clearly the midfield is not working as well as last year, which does lay partially on their shoulders. It's when they don't have the ball that's been the issue. 

I still think it's the easiest thing to fix, and will helps us massively, but it all starts in the center on Thursday. 

[dl4e 5,851]

2 minutes ago, Red and Blue realist said:

So you didn't notice how easy it was for Essendon to waltz out of the center last week? Max won the taps and it was too easy for them too often, now that's not our only problem. And I'm not suggesting for 1 second that Brayshaw and Oliver haven't been our best players so far, but while they've still be getting the same amount of possessions as last year, clearly the midfield is not working as well as last year, which does lay partially on their shoulders. It's when they don't have the ball that's been the issue. 

I still think it's the easiest thing to fix, and will helps us massively, but it all starts in the center on Thursday. 

I think our current problems go way beyond the midfield. Gawn, Oliver and Brayshaw have been terrific but there are other areas of our game which are lacking in basics of the game. Our forwards lead to the wrong place and consistantly drop marks they should be eating. Our backmen do not play on their men at all. The Essendon game was a disgrace for this.

[Clayton van Oliver 1,823]

Modern footy is about cohesive systems and role playing, not just racking up possies. Angus and clarrie are getting the numbers but not doing their full roles properly. 

There have been puffier pieces than this.

Edit sp

Edited April 10, 2019 by AmDamDemon

[Wrecker45 3,378]

24 minutes ago, Macca said:

Apart from Jones ...

Harmes,  Melksham,  Petracca,  T-Mac,  Jetta,  Hibberd & Viney aren't doing anywhere near enough as well

Salem & Gawn can play better too.

That is 10 senior/best players not playing up to scratch.  In a nutshell,  that is the issue.

3 other automatics are injured ... Lever,  May & Lewis ... thus creating undue pressure on an undermanned defence.  Our defence is also under seige because of our issues further afield.

If there is 1 player pulling their weigh it is Salem.

[Red and Blue realist 2,051]

1 minute ago, dl4e said:

I think our current problems go way beyond the midfield. Gawn, Oliver and Brayshaw have been terrific but there are other areas of our game which are lacking in basics of the game. Our forwards lead to the wrong place and consistantly drop marks they should be eating. Our backmen do not play on their men at all. The Essendon game was a disgrace for this.

Not disagreeing, and I don't think they are our biggest issue but we can't also think they haven't got areas of improvement that won't help the whole team. The more pressure they put on the opposition makes it harder and sloppier when the ball goes into our defense so it's easier for our defenders to either kill the ball or intercept, while if they are working harder when we don't have the ball when it is turned over hopefully it means they can get cleaner ball into our forwards. 

[Sir Why You Little 37,036]

20 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

You're missing the point.  He isn't saying Jones isn't part of the problem - just that our other midfielders are also not working hard enough defensively.  It's not just on Jones individually, it's on all players to lift.  That's the gist of the article to me.

 

I am not missing any point. 

Of course the entire midfield could work harder, but Jones has become a liability, purely because of age (not his fault), but to play him on a wing is just ludicrous, where speed is needed more than ever with 666. 

We now have effectively one side of the ground blocked, and a very easy option for the opposition to work through

It is the journalist who is missing the point 

[poita 3,902]

I'd be interested to see Max's hitout stats compared to last year, particularly in respect of hitouts to advantage. A number of his taps on Friday hit Shiel and Heppell on the chest.

It is difficult for Oliver and Brayshaw, who I agree have been clearly our best players, to expect to receive a tap in one place and then have to change tack and defend when it ends up somewhere else.

[Jones 62]

Throw Nathan Jones back onto the ball, back in the guts

[Red and Blue realist 2,051]

7 minutes ago, poita said:

I'd be interested to see Max's hitout stats compared to last year, particularly in respect of hitouts to advantage. A number of his taps on Friday hit Shiel and Heppell on the chest.

It is difficult for Oliver and Brayshaw, who I agree have been clearly our best players, to expect to receive a tap in one place and then have to change tack and defend when it ends up somewhere else.

I blame Oliver and Brayshaw for this, I think Max has done the right thing and directed the tap where Oliver and Brayshaw should have been. However, Oliver in particular was too busy engaging in a push and shove with his opponent to get anywhere near the tap, which made it too easy for Essendon to walk it out. Both Oliver and Brayshaw have to focus on being our attacking mids, but at times we more like defending mids, roles that Harmes and Viney do much better. 

[Jones 62]

This is a good article.

I'd throw Jones back into the guts 

[Macca 16,969]

43 minutes ago, Wrecker45 said:

If there is 1 player pulling their weigh it is Salem.

Can do more but again,  it is only 1 bloke

What is your view from an overall perspective?

[binman 42,956]

Puff piece? Disgraceful article?

Spare me.

A good article with solid reasoning supporting its central contention that our lack of defensive running from mids 'who have begun to play like millionares' is the cause of our defensive woes.

Hard to argue with that contention.

Though  it won't convince those that see the game in a much less nuanced fashion. You know the 'the opposition is scoring too easily so must be the defenders fault' brigade.

Luckily goody is not one of those people.

Edited April 10, 2019 by binman