Demonland Fact-Check

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,525]

  On 03/04/2019 at 07:38, willmoy said:

Fact Check

Is Melbourne the Team in the AFL that people most like to kick while they are down and yet are most jealous of, if not name another one?

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Realistically, what's there to be jealous of?  Our money?  Massive membership??  Success???

I think people like to kick any of the big, rich and powerful clubs when they're down.  Sadly for us, until we either get money, members or a premiership cup on colour television, then people aren't even going to consider us when looking for someone to kick.

[Deemania since 56 6,810]

  On 02/04/2019 at 22:27, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Contention: The MRO/AFL Appeals process is corrupt and favours the big teams such as Collingwood.

If you're wondering why I've added this, have a look at the Michael Christian thread, particularly today (after Mason Cox was successful on appeal). As I keep saying, if you ever have a choice between conspiracy or incompetence, go with incompetence every time.

 

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Pre-ordained outcome. Cheats and low-life.

[number 27 62]

  On 03/04/2019 at 01:01, hemingway said:

Can you tell me what those experiments are ? 

I would be reassured if I saw some evidence of his experiments but I cannot see them.  

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of course I don't have evidence.  in my opinion the team isn't balanced at the moment and could be due to the amount of debutantes in the first two rounds (that of course can be down to injuries)

On reflection it feels the same as the first month or so last year, we didn't look settled, the game plan wasn't obvious. it felt like lots of players were in and out of the team, trying  new players in different roles. We were playing too high and letting to many easy goals over the top.

I haven't been to a live game yet this year so only watching on tv so can't really comment on whats happening on the ground.

we looked better in patches last week but we look really underdone.  Not sure what they have done to rectify the bomb it in the forward line, but I'm hoping in time it will become obvious 

I'm sticking fat, have no choice after all these years really. ill be at the saints game and hopefully things will have settled and we are playing attractive contested footy again.

 

[hemingway 7,633]

  On 03/04/2019 at 06:54, Deesprate said:

Gary Lyon had a shot about May fitness. May himself confirmed he was not at the standard required by the club and has since suffered two soft tissue injuries. We lost Hogan for this guy did we do any due diligence on his work ethic. I have posted before that living on the Gold Coast have seen a lot of May. Has alway had soft tissue issues and appeared lazy. Lyon article seem to shine a light on this.

https://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/garry-lyon-takes-second-stab-at-melbourne-recruit-steven-may/news-story/1f1237011f0c654c6f4bb1f1441d64f9

By the way Petracca by any definition is not fat.

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Not fat but just can’t run! Slow, can’t chase, and has no endurance. That’s what matters. Don’t care if he is fat or heavy, the guy’s fitness is not AFL standard. 

[dworship 3,343]

  On 03/04/2019 at 06:36, Skuit said:

Hehe. Could be straight out of a gym session or flexing for the camera though? I was convinced by this photo that he was in good shape. Some reasonable posters who have attended training sessions have suggested he's not. I'm not sure how this one can be resolved?

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I thought the premise of this thread was to shed some light on some of the more contentious beliefs on Demonland. I attended 3 preseason sessions where Trac was present and have made myself clear on this matter, no, he is not fat. Please produce evidence of the posters who attended training and have clearly stated he is fat. I would love to debate them and suggest they are speaking through an orifice other than their mouth.

Edited April 3, 2019 by dworship
Spelling

[hemingway 7,633]

  On 03/04/2019 at 08:56, dworship said:

I thought the premise of this thread was to shed some light on some of the more contentious beliefs on Demonland. I attended 3 preseason sessions where Trac was present and have made myself clear on this matter, no, he is not fat. Please produce evidence of the posters who attended training and have clearly stated he is fat. I would love to debate them and suggest they are speaking through an orifice other than their mouth.

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Please!  I have seen him play in 3 games including Shepparton and I have seen enough.  He suffers badly compared to others on the field in regard to bulk and ability  to run. Both speed and endurance. Just watch him trying to chase an opponent, a few strides and then his opponent has metres on him and delivering it to a teammate. You have to want it badly and like someone else at another club he does not want it badly. Probably a lovely guy with a great personality but to be successful you need a single minded  ambition and an attitude that ensures that nothing will get in your way.  He’s not alone, most of us are like Christian. In every field at any age, there are kids, men and women with great potential but few realise  that potential. Most often we say “he had great talent” but only occasionally do we say “what a great champion”. Christian is playing AFL so he has immense talent. But I think in watching him play we are seeing the present and the future.  

Edited April 3, 2019 by hemingway

[beelzebub 23,392]

  On 03/04/2019 at 09:15, hemingway said:

Please!  I have seen him play in 3 games including Shepparton and I have seen enough.  He suffers badly compared to others on the field in regard to bulk and ability  to run. Both speed and endurance. Just watch him trying to chase an opponent, a few strides and then his opponent has metres on him and delivering it to a teammate. You have to want it badly and like someone else at another club he does not want it badly. Probably a lovely guy with a great personality but to be successful you need a single minded  ambition and an attitude that ensures that nothing will get in your way.  He’s not alone, most of us are like Christian. In every field at any age, there are kids, men and women with great potential but few realise  that potential. Most often we say “he had great talent” but only occasionally do we say “what a great champion”. Christian is playing AFL so he has immense talent. But I think in watching him play we are seeing the present and the future.  

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Trac is in terrific shape...but alas the WRONG shape eh

[dworship 3,343]

  On 03/04/2019 at 09:15, hemingway said:

Please!  I have seen him play in 3 games including Shepparton and I have seen enough.  He suffers badly compared to others on the field in regard to bulk and ability  to run. Both speed and endurance. Just watch him trying to chase an opponent, a few strides and then his opponent has metres on him and delivering it to a teammate. You have to want it badly and like someone else at another club he does not want it badly. Probably a lovely guy with a great personality but to be a successful you need a single minded  ambition and an attitude that ensures that nothing will get in your way.  He’s not alone, most of us are like Christian. In every field at any age, there are kids, men and women with great potential but few realise  that potential. Most often we say “he had great talent” but only occasionally do we say “what a great champion”. Christian is playing AFL so he has immense talent. But I think in watching him play we are seeing the present and the future.  

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You appear to write well but have difficulty with either reading / comprehending or both. The point of this thread, as I saw it, was to add some clarity to contentious opinions. In this case; who has been to training and then said Trac is fat. By all means pontificate your opinion on the Trac threads. If you go back through the threads that first started this contentiousness you will find I agree with your opinion of some of the issues facing CP but not with the statements he is fat.

[DV8 2,271]

 

  On 03/04/2019 at 08:41, hemingway said:

Not fat but just can’t run! Slow, can’t chase, and has no endurance. That’s what matters. Don’t care if he is fat or heavy, the guy’s fitness is not AFL standard. 

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This  ^

 

He tried to take a few overhead marks at the Cattery, and barely got off the ground.   And the bigger opponent spoilt his attempts even with all that low centred weight. then with ball on ground he was ineffectual...  a liability unless he's kicking 5 Gls a week.   He doesn't defend well.

Put him in the midfield Ffs.   Even down at Casey.   Run him into fitness.  

Barass would not have him back into the team, until he shed at least 5 Kgs.

[Skuit 10,031]

  On 03/04/2019 at 08:56, dworship said:

I thought the premise of this thread was to shed some light on some of the more contentious beliefs on Demonland. I attended 3 preseason sessions where Trac was present and have made myself clear on this matter, no, he is not fat. Please produce evidence of the posters who attended training and have clearly stated he is fat. I would love to debate them and suggest they are speaking through an orifice other than their mouth.

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That is the premise, hopefully through objective measures where possible rather than just subjective ones. For balance, I should have written that some reasonable posters have suggested he is fat (and I'll go through later and compile a list), whereas others have said he isn't. It was just to highlight that there appears some conflict between the photographic evidence and some eye-witness reports.

For those contesting the use of the word fat - clearly he is not fat by any definition. But it's fun to call a footballer fat and makes us all feel better about ourselves. Yes, the debate surrounds around whether he is in the appropriate shape as an athlete/for his role.

[hemingway 7,633]

  On 03/04/2019 at 09:29, dworship said:

You appear to write well but have difficulty with either reading / comprehending or both. The point of this thread, as I saw it, was to add some clarity to contentious opinions. In this case; who has been to training and then said Trac is fat. By all means pontificate your opinion on the Trac threads. If you go back through the threads that first started this contentiousness you will find I agree with your opinion of some of the issues facing CP but not with the statements he is fat.

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i see you take this conversation seriously, and good for you.

And your back handed compliments show promise. 

My comments were not personal and not directed to you, I was using your comment in a vicarious way. 

I don't intend to pontificate, I have no reason to do so, and only sages can pontificate.

For the rest of us, it is merely an opinion based on what we see and perhaps what we read or are told.

Nothing else.

My view is just that a view, and I hope it is wrong.

I see a great talent, but one that is likely to be wasted unless something changes this season.

He is not fit, but perhaps that is his best.

If it is, he is below the standard that is required to play AFL at the top level.

He may well continue to be a valuable player, who does the mercurial from time to time, and plays in bursts. He may be a match winner, but is he playing to his potential and will he ever do so?

However, what we are seeing today are footballer robots that can run and run and run.

And there are hundreds of players that will commit themselves heart and soul to the contest every time, over 120 minutes.

CP is not on his Pat Malone,. He is in the majority camp, that is what is disappointing. 

Believe it or not, I love what he promises to be and love what he can do. But he does not do it often enough to inspire confidence or the feeling that we are watching a future champion. 

 

 

[La Dee-vina Comedia 17,137]

  On 03/04/2019 at 08:00, Deemania since 56 said:

Pre-ordained outcome. Cheats and low-life.

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I can't agree. If it was a pre-ordained outcome that he'd get off, why was he found guilty in the first place? 

[beelzebub 23,392]

@hemingway

perhaps we could sum it up as :

never mistake motion for action

[Willmoy1947 4,261]

  On 03/04/2019 at 07:48, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

Realistically, what's there to be jealous of?  Our money?  Massive membership??  Success???

I think people like to kick any of the big, rich and powerful clubs when they're down.  Sadly for us, until we either get money, members or a premiership cup on colour television, then people aren't even going to consider us when looking for someone to kick.

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39 what you say makes sense, but i always listen to the snide remark the laugh, the smirk and the pity. The cannot help themselves with the extra bit of sarcasm, the extra dig and the cheap snow sojourns. I think it's there, underneath the vacuous diatribe..... 

[dworship 3,343]

  On 03/04/2019 at 10:24, hemingway said:

i see you take this conversation seriously, and good for you.

And your back handed compliments show promise. 

My comments were not personal and not directed to you, I was using your comment in a vicarious way. 

I don't intend to pontificate, I have no reason to do so, and only sages can pontificate.

For the rest of us, it is merely an opinion based on what we see and perhaps what we read or are told.

Nothing else.

My view is just that a view, and I hope it is wrong.

I see a great talent, but one that is likely to be wasted unless something changes this season.

He is not fit, but perhaps that is his best.

If it is, he is below the standard that is required to play AFL at the top level.

He may well continue to be a valuable player, who does the mercurial from time to time, and plays in bursts. He may be a match winner, but is he playing to his potential and will he ever do so?

However, what we are seeing today are footballer robots that can run and run and run.

And there are hundreds of players that will commit themselves heart and soul to the contest every time, over 120 minutes.

CP is not on his Pat Malone,. He is in the majority camp, that is what is disappointing. 

Believe it or not, I love what he promises to be and love what he can do. But he does not do it often enough to inspire confidence or the feeling that we are watching a future champion. 

 

 

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I now get the Hemingway moniker, your an author and I'm more a substance man.

[Skuit 10,031]

Not sure how this thread devolved into arguments? Contention. Find source and supporting evidence.

E.g Contention: Several years ago the MFC put a massive contract offer in front of Josh Kennedy (Syd).

Did the club ever hint at or confirm anything of the like? Or was it just a rumour from a supposed insider?

[Engorged Onion 10,226]

  On 03/04/2019 at 14:25, Skuit said:

Not sure how this thread devolved into arguments? Contention. Find source and supporting evidence.

E.g Contention: Several years ago the MFC put a massive contract offer in front of Josh Kennedy (Syd).

Did the club ever hint at or confirm anything of the like? Or was it just a rumour from a supposed insider?

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Your thread is headed this way @Skuit

[beelzebub 23,392]

  On 03/04/2019 at 10:08, DV8 said:

 

This  ^

 

He tried to take a few overhead marks at the Cattery, and barely got off the ground.   And the bigger opponent spoilt his attempts even with all that low centred weight. then with ball on ground he was ineffectual...  a liability unless he's kicking 5 Gls a week.   He doesn't defend well.

Put him in the midfield Ffs.   Even down at Casey.   Run him into fitness.  

Barass would not have him back into the team, until he shed at least 5 Kgs.

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And if he can't....For Sale

[beelzebub 23,392]

  On 03/04/2019 at 07:48, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

Realistically, what's there to be jealous of?  Our money?  Massive membership??  Success???

I think people like to kick any of the big, rich and powerful clubs when they're down.  Sadly for us, until we either get money, members or a premiership cup on colour television, then people aren't even going to consider us when looking for someone to kick.

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It's very likely we're just that very convenient awkward dork that EVERYONE can pick on...even the lesser clubs as they're STILL more successful in the last 50 years. Only the Aints are as pitiful as us but they have this supposed blue collar image. We are those smug top of the towners with all that silverware just tarnishing away.

They were great once...but look at them now KICK...not so clever now are we KICK KICK smirk giggle KICK.

Oh they're just Melbourne dahlings...they stir occasionally then get drunk on the bathwater... pathetic creatures ( stepping over or on )

To be honest not one of my friends harbours ANY jealousy for us. 

[Wrecker45 3,381]

  On 03/04/2019 at 14:25, Skuit said:

Not sure how this thread devolved into arguments? Contention. Find source and supporting evidence.

E.g Contention: Several years ago the MFC put a massive contract offer in front of Josh Kennedy (Syd).

Did the club ever hint at or confirm anything of the like? Or was it just a rumour from a supposed insider?

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Unless there was a riddle i’m not convinced on this one.

[Bitter but optimistic 22,289]

Contention  There is no place for "facts" on Demonland.

[Skuit 10,031]

  On 03/04/2019 at 20:42, Wrecker45 said:

Unless there was a riddle i’m not convinced on this one.

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Supporting evidence: Jack be nimble and the shaved chicken ran up the clock at half past seven.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 17,137]

  On 03/04/2019 at 20:45, Bitter but optimistic said:

Contention  There is no place for "facts" on Demonland.

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But if that were true, what do we make of this very post? Does that mean this post is not factual, so therefore there is a place on Demonland for "facts"? Then that would mean your post is correct.

I'm beyond confused.

[Bitter but optimistic 22,289]

  On 03/04/2019 at 21:39, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

 

I'm beyond confused.

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Well done LDC! That means you are in the ideal mindset to post on Demonland with authority and confidence!

[Demonland 74,467]

  On 02/04/2019 at 21:54, Skuit said:

Is there a public record of him having said he/the coaching staff hasn't  - even if that isn't irrefutable evidence in the first place. This is what this thread is about - getting to the source.

From Michael Gleeson in the Age: "The Demons coach did not spend long dwelling on the preliminary final blowout, because his side was so poor they didn’t resemble Melbourne at all."

"The Demons did not do a regular play-by-play review of the game with their players because it was futile when they had played so far outside the way they know they should play, and outside the way they had been playing."

Goodwin (as quoted): I certainly didn’t dwell too much on the way we played because it was nothing like the way the Melbourne team plays. But you do reflect on the things in our program (sic?) we keep addressing and learning from."

Dated March 7 2019: https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/grand-final-was-the-real-lesson-for-the-demons-goodwin-20190307-p512hl.html

There's also another google reference to Goody not reviewing the game but it's behind a Hun paywall, and I recall he may have said something in a post-match interview or elsewhere about not reviewing. If it was future tense in the preliminary final post-match, I think that can be rejected as a pretty unreliable source.

Anyone else have anything?

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From the HUN artcile ...

? | https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/melbourne/simon-goodwin-opens-up-on-melbournes-shocking-2018-preliminary-final-and-his-eye-on-the-future/news-story/a747f87037c2f001c67464d513756f06

Goodwin has not watched the game. and he did not read any critique of it.

“The game was pretty clear in my head,’’ he said.

“I’ve thought about it. Like anyone, to grow and learn you have to reflect so I’ve certainly reflected on everything around our program, the lead-in to the finals, the first final, the second final, what we taught, how we educated our program, our training, how we travelled, all those things you reflect on.

“But it’s too hard an industry to keep looking back and being miserable about what’s behind you so you have to keep going forward.’’

Is the game far removed from your thinking in the middle of February.

“Yeah, a long way.”

Are you annoyed we’re going back there?

“No, it’s your job and it still sits in a lot of people’s minds. It’s there, it’s great exposure, but we need to look forward.’’

So, onwards and upwards.