Farewell Jesse Hogan

[daisycutter 29,892]

i wish posters would stop latching on to every crap article/tweet/comment in the media as though there is even a possibility of any truth in it

[Lucifers Hero 40,516]

9 minutes ago, djr said:

Wouldn't be surprised if that pick 5 goes directly to Adelaide for their pick 8 and 13. We then pass on pick 8 to Suns and go to the draft with pick 13. That would be a good result.

Adelaide will likely wait till player trading is over tomorrow night and do something with picks in the following two days when pick trading is allowed (but no player trade).  So, by that time it will be too late to 'Get May'.

Or Adelaide wait till trade night and Live Pick Trading.

Just can't see Adelaide doing a pick trade deal before player trading closes.  If they were willing Freo would do it with pick 5 first. 

 

The way I see it happening is that Freo will do a deal with Brisbane even if it requires a back flip by Bell and take 5 (and maybe a late pick sweetener to 'save face') then shaft us as much as he can on the Hogan deal.  In which case they will probably take pick 5 to the draft and cash in on the night - it will be worth more then than in the next week if (as is highly likely) one of the SA lads is still available.

[Ouch! 2,269]

 

2 minutes ago, olisik said:

Why would they when they can wait until draft night, see whose actually available at 5, then make the call opposed to doing it blind?

Because it gets them ahead of Port... and one of Rankine, Rozie or Lukosius is likely to be there.

However that said, Adelaide would try and offer 8 and 13 to St Kilda who has pick 4 on the night first, but they seem to heavily be into one of the King boys.

[beelzebub 23,390]

5 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Spot on, Steve.  Josh Mahoney and co. will be thinking the exact same thing.

Amazing so many just don't see this. Must be too busy collecting Scanlens cards .

[ManDee 7,319]

3 minutes ago, olisik said:

ADELAIDE ARE NOT GOING TO TRADE 8 & 13 TO US FOR 5 BEFORE TRADE PERIOD IS OVER.

Why would they when they can wait until draft night, see whose actually available at 5, then make the call opposed to doing it blind?

Because there would be no value to us trading at that point - can't get May. My understanding (could be wrong) is that player trades will be closed before live trades start.

[olisik 4,060]

1 minute ago, ManDee said:

Because there would be no value to us trading at that point - can't get May. My understanding (could be wrong) is that player trades will be closed before live trades start.

Adelaide won’t care about that, as GC will be holding pick 5 in the draft anyway.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

4 minutes ago, DTJ said:

Pick 5 alone would be a massive, disheartening compromise.

If we win a flag, the idea that we lost out on 'picks' will hold no weight. 

This is about the value of May and KK for us over the next 2-5 years vs Hogan. 

That's all that we should be worrying about. Yet for some reason, supporters have become brainwashed regarding draft picks and value. Because once upon a time it's all we had to look forward to. 

The other thing I'd like to point out is the fact that draft picks are also a risk. So really, y'all are kicking up a fuss about nothing. 

[olisik 4,060]

5 minutes ago, Ouch! said:

 

Because it gets them ahead of Port... and one of Rankine, Rozie or Lukosius is likely to be there.

However that said, Adelaide would try and offer 8 and 13 to St Kilda who has pick 4 on the night first, but they seem to heavily be into one of the King boys.

Then do the trade on draft night when they are 100% sure who they want is available. There is no benefit doing it before knowing that.

[Pates 9,672]

1 minute ago, beelzebub said:

Amazing so many just don't see this. Must be too busy collecting Scanlens cards .

I guess my ultimate thing is that I just don’t rate May as highly as a lot of others seem to. He’s at the top end of our age range and has been good but hardly an out an out star. I truly question whether bringing him in rounds out our team, particularly as at the other end Weiderman is still unproven. 

May would be a good get, nothing more. Jesse is a proven forward with limitless potential, I would take him any day of the week over May wherever we played him. 

[Moonshadow 17,678]

9 hours ago, olisik said:

Don’t know why people keep talking about pick 8. This won’t move until draft night.

If we have 5, and if Razkine drops to 5, then we may get the opportunity to then trade for pick 8/13.

IF, if we were to get 5 and swap it for 8+13 before Wed 8.30, we might try and use 8 as part of May deal and keep 13. That cannot be done on draft night. Get it?

[olisik 4,060]

Just now, Moonshadow said:

IF, if we were to get 5 and swap it for 8+13 before Wed 8.30, we might try and use 8 as part of May deal and keep 13. That cannot be done on draft night. Get it?

Why would they entertain that swap not knowing whose available at pick 5? They will just wait until they know.

[olisik 4,060]

Here are some numbers on the bags of goals kicked Steven May in 2018. Honestly it’s not a pick 5 upgrade from OMac to May. 

 

J Kennedy - 5.3

Cam Mcarthy 3 goals

J Battle - 3 Goals

J Cameron - 6.3

B Brown - 4.2

M Baguley -3.2 (Daniher out)

Tom McDonald - 5.1

J Riewoldt - 10.6

E Hipwood - 3

Edited October 15, 2018 by olisik

[Ouch! 2,269]

Just now, Pates said:

I guess my ultimate thing is that I just don’t rate May as highly as a lot of others seem to. He’s at the top end of our age range and has been good but hardly an out an out star. I truly question whether bringing him in rounds out our team, particularly as at the other end Weiderman is still unproven. 

May would be a good get, nothing more. Jesse is a proven forward with limitless potential, I would take him any day of the week over May wherever we played him. 

May is at the right age bracket being 26-27 for our window of opportunity in the next few years. 

Statistically as a defender I think he's rated as Elite in many categories. I question his temperament, and it sounds like he has had a few issues coming back in a good state from a preseason, but he's a very ordinary club. 

It's a tough call, but ultimately its about the club, not about the individuals, and in terms of doing whats right for the club, Mahoney, Taylor and Todd Viney haven't made too many wrong steps, so I'm prepared to back them in again this year!

[ManDee 7,319]

4 minutes ago, olisik said:

Why would they entertain that swap not knowing whose available at pick 5? They will just wait until they know.

Because the holder of pick  5 at that point may want to use it themselves. Or if they really want it the price could keep going up maybe 8 +13 + who knows what.

Edited October 15, 2018 by ManDee

[Pates 9,672]

3 minutes ago, olisik said:

Here are some numbers on the bags of goals kicked against him in 2018. Honestly it’s not a pick 5 upgrade from OMac to May. 

 

J Kennedy - 5.3

Cam Mcarthy 3 goals

J Battle - 3 Goals

J Cameron - 6.3

B Brown - 4.2

M Baguley -3.2 (Daniher out)

Tom McDonald - 5.1

J Riewoldt - 10.6

E Hipwood - 3

This is exactly why I have reservations about our desire to get him. Admittedly he is playing in a pathetically bad team but even Chip managed to hold his own when we were crap. 

I just don’t see what others are seeing. 

[old55 23,833]

18 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

I am not your intern. Look it up yourself. Not too hard

My request for a quote wasn't directed at you, you just chimed in unnecessarily with more unsubstantiated fluff.

[Moonshadow 17,678]

5 minutes ago, olisik said:

Why would they entertain that swap not knowing whose available at pick 5? They will just wait until they know.

Because we are in a premiership window and May adds A LOT to our team balence.

IMO we are closer to a flag with May in our team than Hogan

[old dee 24,001]

59 minutes ago, ProDee said:

That would be disappointing.  

I don't get too hung up on picks, as it's about outcomes and improving your list based on cards you're dealt, but that would be a poor outcome, imo.

That said, I didn't hear his comments and only have your interpretation to assess.

IMO if we accept 5 only that will show how badly we want him off the list.

[Ouch! 2,269]

8 minutes ago, olisik said:

Here are some numbers on the bags of goals kicked against him in 2018. Honestly it’s not a pick 5 upgrade from OMac to May. 

 

J Kennedy - 5.3

Cam Mcarthy 3 goals

J Battle - 3 Goals

J Cameron - 6.3

B Brown - 4.2

M Baguley -3.2 (Daniher out)

Tom McDonald - 5.1

J Riewoldt - 10.6

E Hipwood - 3

Just curious but how do you know that they kicked the goals against May? 

Not saying this is inaccurate? but is there a website that actually tells you how many goals were kicked against a particular player?

I would imagine that Steven May would have matched up against most of these players, but he would probably have also been patching 3-4 other holes at the same time. 

For example he might have been playing on Darling not Kennedy, Hogan, not TMac... then moved afterwards as things got ugly with those players, but are you attributing his effort correctly?

[old dee 24,001]

10 minutes ago, olisik said:

Here are some numbers on the bags of goals kicked against him in 2018. Honestly it’s not a pick 5 upgrade from OMac to May. 

 

J Kennedy - 5.3

Cam Mcarthy 3 goals

J Battle - 3 Goals

J Cameron - 6.3

B Brown - 4.2

M Baguley -3.2 (Daniher out)

Tom McDonald - 5.1

J Riewoldt - 10.6

E Hipwood - 3

What those stats don't show is how often the ball was coming into the forward line. The backs at  GCS every week were on a hiding to nothing. Don't forget this was the worst side since the MFC in 2012.

[Gator 17,972]

Due to Olisik's incorrect assertions it seems I also have to post this here.

A few things...

I doubt you know that every one of those goals was kicked on May.  In fact, I know you don't, because Kennedy kicked 4 on him and Riewoldt 6.  And key defenders are only as good as team structures and the quality of their midfield.

You think May is slow when speed is one of his biggest strengths.  This clearly tells me you have no clue about the player you're criticising.

The following is from a recent article:

In 2016 he (May) was the third-best defender in the competition behind Alex Rance and ahead of Jeremy McGovern, losing just 14 of 71 one-on-ones for the entire year.

This season Gold Coast haemorrhaged inside 50s, giving up five more than the next-worst side.

The offensive stuff is what elevates him above the dime-a-dozen stoppers.

This year he averaged 17.4 disposals (second-most for key defenders), 334 metres gained (second most for key defenders) as well 7.6 intercept possessions, three intercept marks and 6.8 spoils (all above average).

Put him into an good side with quality players around him and you have a weapon at full back.

They (Melbourne) get Jake Lever back at some stage and improved their defensive mix late, but still were the fourth-easiest side to score against across the entire season.

Slot him in alongside Lever and Max Gawn becomes an offensive threat again instead of being forced to play as a seventh defender at times as well as a ruckman.

To sum up, Olisik, you're welcome to your opinion, but it's hopelessly misinformed.

Edited October 15, 2018 by ProDee

[sue 9,192]

30 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Spot on, Steve.  Josh Mahoney and co. will be thinking the exact same thing.

But I shudder to think what will happen on Dland if we don't win that flag.

[beelzebub 23,390]

5 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

Because we are in a premiership window and May adds A LOT to our team balence.

IMO we are closer to a flag with May in our team than Hogan

it's simple...like breathing air really... Yet some struggle

[Moonshadow 17,678]

2 minutes ago, Ouch! said:

Just curious but how do you know that they kicked the goals against May? 

Not saying this is inaccurate? but is there a website that actually tells you how many goals were kicked against a particular player?

I would imagine that Steven May would have matched up against most of these players, but he would probably have also been patching 3-4 other holes at the same time. 

For example he might have been playing on Darling not Kennedy, Hogan, not TMac... then moved afterwards as things got ugly with those players, but are you attributing his effort correctly?

You think olisik has the ability to look at the context and nuances of the situation? Everything is B&W to him

[Demonland 73,484]

1 minute ago, sue said:

But I shudder to think what will happen on Dland if we don't win that flag.

Welcome to every day since Round 7 2000.