On 06/10/2018 at 21:14, Bonkers said:

I'll give you the tip, Hogan was in AA contention half way through the year 

You give me the tip, I’ll give you the facts.

- Hogan did not finish top ten in his own club B&F.

- Hogan played poorly in virtually every big game he took the field in in 2018. 9 goals in 8 games against the top 10 clubs. 

Coulda, shoulda, woulda ... didn’t.

Edited October 7, 20186 yr by EnterTheDragon

  On 07/10/2018 at 01:38, SFebes said:

I think Collingwood are heading into cap issue territory

That’s what brown paper bags are for.

  On 07/10/2018 at 01:36, Ethan Tremblay said:

I don’t think the club are keen on Hogan only extending for another two years, it’s either sign long term or explore your options elsewhere. 

Ethan, what has given you this though?

  On 07/10/2018 at 02:54, EnterTheDragon said:

You give me the tip, I’ll give you the facts.

- Hogan did not finish top ten in his own club B&F.

- Hogan played poorly in virtually every big game he took the field in in 2018. 9 goals in 8 games against the top 10 clubs. 

Coulda, shoulda, woulda ... didn’t.

Agree. Is way over-hyped. 

In an injury interrupted year last year Hogan kicked 3 against both Port (finalist) and the eventual premier Richmond.  

Key forwards reach their peak at 26, not 23.

It's self-serving nonsense to suggest Hogan can't perform against top 8 teams. 

 

  On 07/10/2018 at 01:37, Fifty-5 said:

Agree that it's a massive endorsement of Brisbane. 

That must encourage the AFL re GC's dire position.  If they can get the admin and fundamentals right then Qld can be an attractive destination.

It shows that getting the fundamentals right is key to turning around FCs, not priority picks.  See MFC for example.

GC is really the AFLs only major problem and this shows it can be sorted.  Carlton are a temporary basket case which will eventually resolve.

Carlton will improve.

Cripps. Docherty. Dow. Curnow C & E. McGovern. Weitering. Marchbank. Settering. Petrevski-Seton. Shiel maybe and others.

  On 07/10/2018 at 01:23, Lucifer's Hero said:

I was comparing circumstances over the last two years (tragic loss of father, extended injury, away from family) and the respective resilience and grit shown.  The comparison was in the context of question marks on Jesse (raised by many in this thread) possibly causing Freo to put a lower value on him than Neale.  My post had nothing to do with media shenanigans at airports or anywhere else!  As an aside, Mfc have kept Jesse out of the media for the last two years and rightly so.

The media shenanigans are a huge part of things.

Hogan is consistently being talked about in the media. That undoubtedly has an impact on how he has been dealing with his life. The media attention on VDB is borderline non-existent, until he started playing again this year only Melbourne supporters would have known who he was. His personal story didn't even get revealed until a few weeks ago - everything that happened in Hogan's life was documented by the media in real time.

Their positions are markedly different and drawing a comparison between the two, which seems only to have been a crack at Hogan, is pretty unfair IMO.

Finally, as to "resilience and grit", how are you placed to comment on what "resilience" or "grit" Hogan has, or hasn't, shown?

  On 07/10/2018 at 01:36, Ethan Tremblay said:

I don’t think the club are keen on Hogan only extending for another two years, it’s either sign long term or explore your options elsewhere. 

Well that would be the next 3 years and that would be in line with most good players.

  On 07/10/2018 at 03:14, ProDee said:

In an injury interrupted year last year Hogan kicked 3 against both Port (finalist) and the eventual premier Richmond.  

Key forwards reach their peak at 26, not 23.

It's self-serving nonsense to suggest Hogan can't perform against top 8 teams. 

 

Jeez you had to dig that far back to 2017 to come up with two solitary games where he kicked an earth shattering 3 goals? Thanks for underlining my ‘self-serving’ point, ProDee.

Amazing that even you with your usually clear critical judgment refuse to acknowledge this player’s flaws.

You even agreed earlier in the thread that it appeared the club is pushing him out the door!

 

Edited October 7, 20186 yr by EnterTheDragon

  On 07/10/2018 at 02:23, daisycutter said:

can't we have both?

I reckon we could get both for the price of one.

  On 07/10/2018 at 03:36, EnterTheDragon said:

Jeez you had to dig that far back to 2017 to come up with two solitary games where he kicked an earth shattering 3 goals? Thanks for underlining my ‘self-serving’ point, ProDee.

Amazing that even you with your usually clear critical judgment refuse to acknowledge this player’s flaws.

 

 

Clearly I rate Hogan more than you.  We can agree to differ.

Edited October 7, 20186 yr by george_on_the_outer
poster abuse

  On 07/10/2018 at 01:37, Lucifer's Hero said:

Are you sure it was Jesse's actual account?  His last post was 9 weeks ago https://www.instagram.com/jessebhogan/

BTW - has anyone who follows him seen '01' on his account in the past?

He did a medical at Freo on Thursday.  Unlikely to do that if he was coming back.  Mahoney said they expected to hear from Jesse through his manager again indicating that he was unlikely to be back in Melbourne at this time. 

Gee whiz, why would any sportsperson be on social media, the comments on his last post are awful from both Freo and Melbourne supporters.  Leave the guy alone FFS

  On 07/10/2018 at 01:09, Lucifer's Hero said:

I can see Freo using the Neale deal as the basis for a Hogan deal. 

Neale:  consistent and outstanding bnf record (2 firsts, 1 runner up), 3 X AA squad, 25yo, probably top two mvp at Freo, proven gun .

Hogan:  Rising star, leading MFC goalkicker, potential Coleman medallist, potential gun, potential bust if he doesn't get his mojo sorted. 

I can't help but compare how Aaron Vandenberg has conducted himself in not too dissimilar circumstances as Jesse.   Aaron has overcome incredible adversity to get the most from himself.    Not sure Jesse has the grit to get the most from himself.  And therein is where his trade value drops.

Albeit set back by injury and tragedy there are enough question marks on Hogan for Freo to value him below Neale in trade value.

I reckon the better the deal Freo get for Neale the better the deal we get for Hogan.  Pple should prepare for us not getting what fans think he is worth.

This is a terrible post in my opinion. Lost his dad to cancer last year after a long battle, went on to suffer cancer himself, dealing with all this while away from home and only 23yo - and then came out to play the best footy of his career in the first half of the season before injury halted his year.

Some may question his onfield demeanour or workrate but to question his "grit" - geez, I'd love to see how others might handle the situation if they walked a mile in his shoes.

  On 07/10/2018 at 03:41, ProDee said:

 

Clearly I rate Hogan more than you.  We can agree to differ.

 

Agree to disagree. Fair enough. I wonder if the answer lies somewhere to the middle of our two views. Probably.

75% towards mine, 25% to yours. ?

Edited October 7, 20186 yr by george_on_the_outer

Ok. Ok.  My bad.  I phrased it badly and made it worse when trying to clarify.  Was just trying to say he may not be rated as highly by Freo relative to Neale for a variety of reasons.  I botched it.  By no means was any offence intended.  Apologies.

Edited October 7, 20186 yr by Lucifer's Hero

  On 07/10/2018 at 01:37, Fifty-5 said:

Agree that it's a massive endorsement of Brisbane. 

That must encourage the AFL re GC's dire position.  If they can get the admin and fundamentals right then Qld can be an attractive destination.

It shows that getting the fundamentals right is key to turning around FCs, not priority picks.  See MFC for example.

GC is really the AFLs only major problem and this shows it can be sorted.  Carlton are a temporary basket case which will eventually resolve.

Actually F-5, its a combination of both... but the off-field structure that needs to be fixed first of all.

Culture starts and ends, at the heads.

And many good, and very nice people, have rotted away in the leaders chairs at Melbourne... unknowing why the club struggles so much, even with player talent.

.

The last story I think in the Age was that Jessie had his medical and they were assessing his foot injury. Is this a deja vu moment like Trengrove and Richmond? And now Gaff has stunned everybody and stayed out west, the West Coast would not be able to afford Jessie.

  On 07/10/2018 at 01:59, Patches O’houlihan said:

I’m not too sure, you’d think hogan would be their priority and they will play hard ball to try and retain a top 10 pick to land both which is why the trade with port would appeal. If they could say get hogan for 6&9 and trade 10 for lobb 

i hope and think they will still demand 5&6 hogan is probably the best young forward talent in the game and will be a superstar for a long time, I don’t think we should wriggle even a little on that asking price because not only is it fair, freo will buckle. They can’t afford not to sign hogan. They need something to convince members not to jump ship. 

my Ideal outcome would be using those picks on Steven may and bailey smith 

I wonder if the keys atmo, are both Neale & Lobb,,, choosing and doing their deals.

I think when they are done, the sooner the better, and Freo can move on.

 

In the draft I think we need both mid, tall forward and speed ???

So inside mid... one who can go straight away.  with run/carry attributes. Smith/Rankine ??

Run and carry...  with some line break speed.  Rankine/Lukosius ??

And key tall forward...  one to develop behind deWeide.   Kings ?  or a later pick as a development project.

 

I have an open mind which way we go in the draft.  I'd like to see 3 or 4 kids come in,,,  as well as free-agents, and other mature players.

I am OK...  with a few senior changes.

Edited October 7, 20186 yr by DV8

  On 07/10/2018 at 02:54, EnterTheDragon said:

You give me the tip, I’ll give you the facts.

- Hogan did not finish top ten in his own club B&F.

- Hogan played poorly in virtually every big game he took the field in in 2018. 9 goals in 8 games against the top 10 clubs. 

Coulda, shoulda, woulda ... didn’t.

So by that standard we should accept a 2nd rounder for Hogan???

  On 07/10/2018 at 01:07, deebug said:

Yes i was thinking about how Jesse would get along with Lyon? Not sure it's a match made in heaven.

If that became a problem, Ross would be given the arse way before getting rid of Hogan. Lyon is a list destroyer.

  On 07/10/2018 at 03:01, Dr.D said:

Agree. Is way over-hyped. 

Well, there you go @EnterTheDragon. Now you know you must be wrong. The neggy Doctor agrees. The new Kiss of Death on Demonland.

  On 07/10/2018 at 04:16, Moonshadow said:

So by that standard we should accept a 2nd rounder for Hogan???

He’s a promising young key forward who has yet to hit his straps. The potential is there (see that word ‘potrntual’) but there are no guarantees in life. There are enough flaws to argue that it’s not a sure thing with Hogan. He is no Winx.

In my view his real value is around pick 5 and maybe an early second round sweetener. But because Freo are desperate we have a rare opportunity to drive a hard bargain. They need him more than we need to let him go. 

Therefore, pick 5 and pick 10 or thereabouts seems about right.

  On 07/10/2018 at 04:24, A F said:

Well, there you go @EnterTheDragon. Now you know you must be wrong. The neggy Doctor agrees. The new Kiss of Death on Demonland.

Not sure who DrD is but he seems a bit of an extremist. We find ourselves in a sort of agreement on this one bit think of it more as an alliance by default. Like say Rush Limbaugh to John McCain.

  On 07/10/2018 at 04:31, EnterTheDragon said:

Not sure who DrD is but he seems a bit of an extremist. We find ourselves in a sort of agreement on this one bit think of it more as an alliance by default. Like say Rush Limbaugh to John McCain.

Might be a bit of an extremist view on your part then, Drags. ?

  On 07/10/2018 at 02:03, Ethan Tremblay said:

I wonder who we’ll choose out of Preust and Preuss. We seem keen on both. 

agh, Preuss..  I missed the ss.