Farewell Jesse Hogan

[buck_nekkid 5,879]

Goody gave a hint at the start of the year when he tried weid, Hogan and TMAc up front.  Weid needed more development, so wasn’t ready.  Imagine these three, all with good tanks, roaming from the wings forward, rotating one or two out in the 50, with the other being the hit up mark.  Having 3 strong contesting players blocking kickout channels, and taking it in turns to rest Gawny in the ruck?  Making teams have to cover a range of options, not just triple teaming Paul every time  he is in the forward line.

Pup tent in trousers territory, that.

 

[Demon Disciple 12,180]

He is a natural CHF, we should not be playing him so deep to goal. That is a position more suited to TMAC or a fully developed Weideman. Give him the space up the ground and his nous and ability will cause many a headache, like Pavlich in his heyday.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

35 minutes ago, DV8 said:

How do you know fairweather supporters,,, have a sudden urge after one (in your words, 'bad performance').  Are you assuming again DD?

Pointing out facts, DV. You should be used to it by now.

[DV8 2,271]

15 minutes ago, Dappa Dan said:

Pointing out facts, DV. You should be used to it by now.

For your information I have been considering the possibilities of a Hogan trade,  for at least 2 Yrs now.

Its not that I really want to trade him, but sometimes the need outweighs the in-house value.

 

Truth be known, Jesse is best out at CHF, playing that old David Schwartz role.  He is not a deep F/Forward.

 

On the other hand, 'Weide' will be very good deep forward.   And with smalls players at his feet.

 

Now, with these forwards, and Tmac as well....  who plays CHF just as well as Hogan;.... what else do we have as options, to get the class Mids into the lineup, which we need.

 

So, there's some more facts, for you to chew on.

Edited August 20, 2018 by DV8

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Just now, DV8 said:

For your information I have been considering the possibilities of a Hogan trade,  for at least 2 Yrs now.

Its not that I really want to trade him, but sometimes the need outweighs the in-house value.

 

Truth be known, Jesse is best our at CHF, playing that old David Schwartz role.  He is not a deep F/Forward.

 

On the other hand, 'Weide' will be very good deep forward.   And with smalls players at his feet.

 

Now, with these forwards, and Tmac as well....  who plays CHF just as well as Hogan;.... what else do we have as options, to get the class Mids into the lineup, which we need.

 

So, there's some more facts, for you to chew on.

So you've been wrong for two years now. That is new information. Can't say I'm interested in it, or that it matters.

You absolutely DO want to trade him. Go back over our recent messages and your "play Weed, trade Hogan" stuff and say with a straight face that you DON'T want him to be traded.

"Truth be known" that's not a truth in any way shape or form. Jesse has been tried up the ground as a roaming CHF, midfielder, even the odd stint in the ruck and desperation move at CHB. He's kicked bags of goals again and again playing as a deep forward, at a better rate that some of the games GREAT deep forwards, all in a time when defence reigns supreme. I must have said this half a dozen times, and every time proved you wrong. I won't be doing it again. Put your fingers in your ears all you like, just don't quote me.

Weid will be a great deep forward will he? Well you may be right. How many games has he played as a deep forward? How many goals has he kicked? How many did Jesse kick with a poor midfield in his games at the equivalent time? Once again, your formatting needs help. "On the other hand, 'Weide' will be very good deep forward" is an opinion built on... well I can't for the life of me see what it's built on... but it's an opinion. The FACTS are that Jesse, in a direct comparison, is already ten times the deep forward Weed is. You wanna talk predictions? Then I go back to what I said over and over and over again... Let's come back to this when their careers have settled and see how they look.

"Now, with these forwards, and Tmac as well....  who plays CHF just as well as Hogan"

No. He doesn't. He's kicked a lot of goals, but he's not as good as Hogan is. How often do you see them triple team Tmac.

"what else do we have as options, to get the class Mids into the lineup, which we need."

Free agency. Trade. Draft. Any other questions?

We'll be fine with the brigade we have + the regular influx of players. We're a destination club. We DON'T get better by trading out the second best young KP forward in the league. What's this now. Seven times?

"So, there's some more facts, for you to chew on."

Give me strength.... Those were for the most part OPINIONS. Not FACTS. How long has it been now and you still don't know the difference?

I'll say it again. Please stop quoting me.

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

Mobile with tank, very good reader of the play, good vision, good decision maker, lightning hands, decent field kick, mediocre kick for goal.

No brainer that he's a mobile CHF and not a stay at home FF, which does not play to his strengths, and leaves him vulnerable to monstering by at least 1 and usually 2 gorilla minders. He gets no protection from the umps (possibly because he whinges to them so much).

Still hasn't really clicked in this team. Hasn't hit top gear yet. Will be something to behold when/if he does.

[Moonshadow 17,676]

Like the concept of trying Hogan in the backline during the preseason. He has terrific versatility.

I'd like to see Weid played regularly next year. He showed a bit on the weekend and I think he'll become a good key forward. Not enough space in the forward 50 for Weid, Tmac and Hogan every week.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

1 minute ago, Moonshadow said:

Like the concept of trying Hogan in the backline during the preseason. He has terrific versatility.

I'd like to see Weid played regularly next year. He showed a bit on the weekend and I think he'll become a good key forward. Not enough space in the forward 50 for Weid, Tmac and Hogan every week.

Coach's dream isn't he.

Weed has to play whatever games we get for the rest of the year even if he struggles. You gotta see what you have. And even if he fades in and out of games, he only needs a quarter to impact it. And barely anyone's stated yet the difference it made to Max's game being able to have a chop out who has an impact at the centre bounces. 

[deelighted3 39]

CHB All Australian in u/18’s. Would be very good out of defence setting up play with his field kicking. Hogan and lever, pretty handy CPD’s right there. The club needs to seriously look at this as the Weid developes. 

[Biffen 12,944]

No.

[whatwhat say what 22,783]

no to trading, no to playing him in the backline

he's the best forward we've had in twenty years

[TRIGON 4,783]

1 hour ago, Dappa Dan said:

Jesse has no problem with a hard ball. What I'd like to see him eradicate completely is him appealing to umpires while the ball is still live.

However, should he end up playing for a Perth based club, then every second week he’d be guaranteed plenty of goals.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Just now, TRIGON said:

However, should he end up playing for a Perth based club, then every second week he’d be guaranteed plenty of goals.

Will he ever. I had no idea the umpiring thing was such a hot topic for WC and their supporters. 

[TRIGON 4,783]

#freekickeagles giving #freekickhawthorn a run for its money.

[pinkshark 950]

no. 

  

[Watson11 2,241]

14 minutes ago, Mazer Rackham said:

Mobile with tank, very good reader of the play, good vision, good decision maker, lightning hands, decent field kick, mediocre kick for goal.

No brainer that he's a mobile CHF and not a stay at home FF, which does not play to his strengths, and leaves him vulnerable to monstering by at least 1 and usually 2 gorilla minders. He gets no protection from the umps (possibly because he whinges to them so much).

Still hasn't really clicked in this team. Hasn't hit top gear yet. Will be something to behold when/if he does.

He's one of the quickest on our list according to champion data.  We don't use his strengths at FF.  We don't use him enough on the lead.   If we hit him up on the lead, he'd be less vulnerable to having to beat 2 gorilla's on the long balls when he stayed back. 

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

1 minute ago, Watson11 said:

He's one of the quickest on our list according to champion data.  We don't use his strengths at FF.  We don't use him enough on the lead.   If we hit him up on the lead, he'd be less vulnerable to having to beat 2 gorilla's on the long balls when he stayed back. 

It's amazing we have (easily) the best attack in the game given the quality of our inside fifty ball. Even on the weekend it was spectacularly bad at times. Goody's got a quantity over quality thing going with inside fifties... But I'd love to see us use our good kicks going inside fifty a bit more, rather than solely out of defence. Salem is a good example. Melks has already covered himself in glory in this field. Kent is a really, really important player in this regard.

[SPC 3,551]

I’ve been a big advocate for the trade.. not because I do not believe in his ability, but more about his current value. I think we have some real needs which could be filled by what Jesses currency allows. No disrespect to Jesse, but I like our side without him in it- playing a more mobile forward line like Richmond. This is just an opinion, and how I believe the game is going to continue to be played for some time.

Jesses biggest challenge is not getting the ball. It is the speed in which he turns to deliver to a target. He often turns, waits and waves hand signals before he kicks it in. For me, he could learn a lot from Melksham.

 

[dimmy 1,307]

10 minutes ago, SPC said:

I’ve been a big advocate for the trade.. not because I do not believe in his ability, but more about his current value. I think we have some real needs which could be filled by what Jesses currency allows. ..........

 

Why is it ,that when we get a good to excellent player we  seek to trade him. That just throws all the development work that has gone into that player and it goes to someone else and then we have to educate the incoming player.( how much development (and rehab) went into Scully and then he went off to the AFL team in Sydney. What type of player are we crying out for now ::: A Scully.

What is standing out is the way in which sides are not working to have 20 stars, but a few stars and plenty of players with heart. i feel we are at that stage and have the advantage of having a lot of stars who are developing together.

[Chook 15,013]

1 hour ago, deelighted3 said:

CHB All Australian in u/18’s. Would be very good out of defence setting up play with his field kicking. Hogan and lever, pretty handy CPD’s right there. The club needs to seriously look at this as the Weid developes. 

As good as he would be on his own, how good would he be alongside Jimmy Toumpas though?

Next 3 flags thanks.

[SPC 3,551]

38 minutes ago, dimmy said:

Why is it ,that when we get a good to excellent player we  seek to trade him. That just throws all the development work that has gone into that player and it goes to someone else and then we have to educate the incoming player.( how much development (and rehab) went into Scully and then he went off to the AFL team in Sydney. What type of player are we crying out for now ::: A Scully.

What is standing out is the way in which sides are not working to have 20 stars, but a few stars and plenty of players with heart. i feel we are at that stage and have the advantage of having a lot of stars who are developing together.

Sorry, not real sure about your point on Scully as he chose to leave..

Getting in quality players is about either trading picks or quality players. Hoping we don’t have any high draft picks any time soon 

[DV8 2,271]

1 hour ago, Dappa Dan said:

You absolutely DO want to trade him. Go back over our recent messages and your "play Weed, trade Hogan" stuff and say with a straight face that you DON'T want him to be traded.

No.  What I want (and you cannot tell me what it is I want)  is to get class midfielders and pace, into our list.

The means of howe we do this, is what I believe your referring to...  and I am open to other suggestions, as to how we can get these experienced topline Mids onto our list,  this 2018, and next year.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

On 8/13/2018 at 12:13 AM, DV8 said:

The best thing is to trade him, and use the proceeds to acquire others.

 

10 minutes ago, DV8 said:

No.  What I want (and you cannot tell me what it is I want)  is to get class midfielders and pace, into our list.

The means of howe we do this, is what I believe your referring to...  and I am open to other suggestions, as to how we can get these experienced topline Mids onto our list,  this 2018, and next year.

I CAN tell you what it is you want.... Because you already TOLD us what you want. You see how to use the quote button? PLEASE stop using it on my posts. You've said nothing new for, what are we up to? 8 quotes now? When you come up with something new that ISN'T idiotic mindless babble about trading the best forward we've had since Neitz... THEN feel free to post away. But even then, please... Let me type this nice and slow now since you've ignored it yet again... DO NOT QUOTE ME.

Edited August 20, 2018 by Dappa Dan

[DV8 2,271]

6 minutes ago, Dappa Dan said:

  On 8/13/2018 at 12:13 AM, DV8 said:

The best thing is to trade him, and use the proceeds to acquire others.

 

7 minutes ago, Dappa Dan said:

14 minutes ago, DV8 said:

No.  What I want (and you cannot tell me what it is I want)  is to get class midfielders and pace, into our list.

The means of howe we do this, is what I believe your referring to...  and I am open to other suggestions, as to how we can get these experienced topline Mids onto our list,  this 2018, and next year. 

 

6 minutes ago, Dappa Dan said:

 

I CAN tell you what it is you want.... Because you already TOLD us what you want. You see how to use the quote button? PLEASE stop using it on my posts. You've said nothing new for, what are we up to? 8 quotes now? When you come up with something new that ISN'T idiotic mindless babble about trading the best forward we've had since Neitz... THEN feel free to post away. But even then, please... Let me type this nice and slow now since you've ignored it yet again... DO NOT QUOTE ME.

So here we ware again. 

What I want is to get class Mids onto OUR list.  the easiest way we can.

I think what you want in all this is just to be malicious.

 

Let me put it this way...  I like Jesse Hogan... and I am virtually the first on here to push for us to recruit him,,, in the very first place when he was a 17Yr old, or younger !

Now I was also the one pushing for us to recruit Weideman.

I was also the main one pushing for us to play TMc as a CHF/Follower,,, when we got injuries to Gawn and Spencer.

 

And now it is,  I am pushing for us to recruit a topline classy experienced mid... but the key to doing this is,,, what have we got to use to satisfy another club. If we identify a player that suits these needs.

 

So you see, what I want are classy mids, in RednBlue_  Not to trade out a player who I really like.  The crux is, we have to give up something, to get something we really need.

 

So I am trying to be creative.

What is it you think you are trying to do?

.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

On 8/13/2018 at 12:13 AM, DV8 said:

The best thing is to trade him,

NOW try and edit that to make it seem like you were making a sensible point. Bold away.

3 hours ago, DV8 said:

I think what you want in all this is just to be malicious.

What is it you think you are trying to do?

What I am TRYING to do is get you to stop quoting me. I don't WANT to block you, as it's a terrible way to go about a footy forum with strangers, and I can see you're not a troll, you're just hopelessly misinformed, and you're really very very bad at understanding Australian Rules Football.

My interest in Jesse Hogan, demonland and posts promoting the idea of trading him (which you're backtracking on now, but I've PROVEN you want to do above, not that I expect you to see the simple fact I've shone a light on) is to debunk the ridiculous, and frankly absurd idea that the club gets anywhere with the trade you propose.

Get this through your head. I DON'T BELIEVE WE NEED ANOTHER BIG NAME MIDFIELDER. Why? Because I'm not stupid. You can think what you want, but you open yourself up to ridicule when you try to pass your crackpot theories off as "facts."

If we do need another player, midfielder or otherwise, there's plenty of other avenues to take. Our list is the envy of almost the entire league. You seem to have it in your mind that we need to have draft capital to trade on to get the next Dangerfield or something. No. What you NEED is to secure a good core of players, and allow the draft/free agency/wantaway players to take care of themselves while the core matures. Oliver, Hogan, Trac, Salem, Viney, Lever, Brayshaw, OMac, Fritsch, Hunt... THESE are the guys you cling to, and when you have needs you look to what you have to let go of, then you draft and trade accordingly. What we HAVE is two guys that are among the best KP players in their positions IN THE ENTIRE LEAGUE... who are not even 25 yet... And you want to say sayonara to one of them to get in "a couple" of top line midfielders.

If that's true, then does Harmes get a game? You know Harmes? Our BEST midfielder on the weekend in the biggest game we've played in 12 years? Who outplayed Oliver, Tracca, Shuey, and a host of others? We have the IDEAL list build to contend for the next 5 years, spearheaded by a guy who's been a superstar from the first day he wore the red and blue, in the best attack IN THE GAME... and you want to break it up because you think we have too many KP forwards. And you think you're being CREATIVE?!!!

Get a grip. Stop panicking about the state of our midfielders. They're growing at exactly the rate they should, maybe even AHEAD of where they should be. The big names that will represent the club in the Bartel/Ling/Scarlett/Ablett roles are already there... it's just they've only just ticked over 50 games.

Like you, I'd like to see a touch more silk (though not at the expense of hard at it players)... Everyone in the league is looking for that. But we CAN get it through other means. Face facts. Hogan is NOT someone we push out the door. As I've said before, if he wants to go, then that's a WHOLE other level of damage control. But until he shows signs that he's out, we get every last minute out of him we can.

And as I say, you go ahead and have your wacky ideas. That's what we're here for. But you can expect me to prove again and again how daft this one is.