Was the win against West Coast rigged?

[Webber 10,465]

21 minutes ago, Mazer Rackham said:

I'm not going to touch the "rigged" theory with a barge pole, but the above sentence leapt out at me.

 

The words "AFL", "compromise" and "feel good narrative" do go together well. Perhaps people can think of a fairly recent example?

To be fair Mazer, you created the punt upon which the pole wielder stands when you delivered the 3 standard deviations bombshell. ?

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Oddly enough, if you wander over to bigfooty, there's as many impartial who thought we were robbed as there are WC supporters who were whining.

We did get two obvious ones overlooked on Avb. Given how bad the umps have been for us this year, I'll take it.

[Macca 16,967]

7 minutes ago, Dappa Dan said:

Oddly enough, if you wander over to bigfooty, there's as many impartial who thought we were robbed as there are WC supporters who were whining.

We did get two obvious ones overlooked on Avb. Given how bad the umps have been for us this year, I'll take it.

But the umpires haven't been bad for us Dappa

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Just now, Macca said:

But the umpires haven't been bad for us Dappa

I reckon they have. On 3 separate occasions (games) this year I thought we were badly hurt by them. And that's after I adjust for my own Red and Blue bias. And in general in games I see a lot of Selwood type stuff happen that oppo teams get that we don't. All part and parcel of following a young team who aren't wily.

Each to their own though. Other people can see it as they want.

[Macca 16,967]

2 minutes ago, Dappa Dan said:

I reckon they have. On 3 separate occasions (games) this year I thought we were badly hurt by them. And that's after I adjust for my own Red and Blue bias. And in general in games I see a lot of Selwood type stuff happen that oppo teams get that we don't. All part and parcel of following a young team who aren't wily.

Each to their own though. Other people can see it as they want.

They can see it their way so I see things completely differently.

But my view isn't often expressed here ... mainly because the place is so overwhelmed with so much angst about the umpires that there isn't much point

I go hard on this issue for a day or so about once a year so in comparison to the norm, it's nothing.

One day you will see it my way ... I will wear you down haha ?

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

19 minutes ago, Macca said:

One day you will see it my way ... I will wear you down haha ?

It'd be the first time... lol

Well... second. (Hundley)

[Macca 16,967]

22 minutes ago, Dappa Dan said:

It'd be the first time... lol

Well... second. (Hundley)

3 actually ... you wrote off the Eagles post Wentz and I thought you were still a chance ha ha

And the 3 footy games where you thought the umps hurt us didn't happen to be close losses did they?  hmmmmm.

We blew the Port game by the way ... kicked wildly into the forward line in the last quarter and a half against their press.  Our fault mate.

Edited August 22, 2018 by Macca

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

On 8/21/2018 at 8:10 AM, joeboy said:

I’ve watched the replay 3 times and still can’t comprehend how we were awarded frees, or at least not penalized for many blatant errors, despite the howls of abuse throughout the game from an overwhelmingly anti Melbourne crowd.

The non payment of a free kick against O.Mac ,when he took on the tackler by dropping his head into an oncoming chest, was just one of  many mind boggling decisions surprisingly in our favour.

In my conspiracy theory, the AFL contrived a feel good story ending

About time.

Those cslls have been going against us. Look at the poort and geelong games.

If it is an afl.conspiracy let's hope it continues until then end of grand final day

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

7 minutes ago, Macca said:

3 actually ... you wrote off the Eagles post Wentz and I thought you were still a chance ha ha

And the 3 footy games where you thought the umps hurt us didn't happen to be close losses did they?  hmmmmm.

We blew the Port game by the way ... kicked wildly into the forward line in the last quarter and a half against their press.  Our fault mate.

No, only one was. You know better than to make presumptions.

And yes, I stand corrected. I jumped right off us. I think I only got back on before the NFC Championship game.

[pitmaster 3,549]

On 8/21/2018 at 8:10 AM, joeboy said:

I’ve watched the replay 3 times and still can’t comprehend how we were awarded frees, or at least not penalized for many blatant errors, despite the howls of abuse throughout the game from an overwhelmingly anti Melbourne crowd.

The non payment of a free kick against O.Mac ,when he took on the tackler by dropping his head into an oncoming chest, was just one of  many mind boggling decisions surprisingly in our favour.

In my conspiracy theory, the AFL contrived a feel good story ending

You need to watch again - OMac had no prior opportunity, just put his head down apparently for self protection so was never going to get a free for a high tackle but the tackle was on him instantly.

The free against Oliver on the outer flank earlier in the last quarter which resulted indirectly in an Eagles goal was very suspect and despite what the pro-Eagle commentator/s said I thought the Spargo free was dodgy

[Macca 16,967]

8 minutes ago, Dappa Dan said:

No, only one was. You know better than to make presumptions.

And yes, I stand corrected. I jumped right off us. I think I only got back on before the NFC Championship game.

Alright,  what were the 3 games then Dappa?

You can presume that I'm almost certainly going to disagree because I can't think of one game where the umps have deliberately set out to stitch us up.

Putting the stitching up factor aside,  if we don't get the rub of the green sometimes,  so what?  Do you want a situation where that can't happen?  You have to take the good with the bad in footy - you and everyone else has got no choice actually. 

And a good percentage of every supporter group complains in the same way (forever and a day) about their make-believe misfortune.  Is every other supporter group wrong and we're right?  Or perhaps they're all wrong,  including us.

Moaning about it all won't change a damn thing either.  The sport can't be umpired correctly so in my opinion they can only get about 70% of all decisions right.  What I've never done is jump the shark and play victim - you should do the sensible thing and do the same. 

I'm just really surprised that more people haven't come to terms with it all ... perhaps they're afraid of jumping ship?

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

10 minutes ago, Macca said:

Alright,  what were the 3 games then Dappa?

You can presume that I'm almost certainly going to disagree because I can't think of one game where the umps have deliberately set out to stitch us up.

Putting the stitching up factor aside,  if we don't get the rub of the green sometimes,  so what?  Do you want a situation where that can't happen?  You have to take the good with the bad in footy - you and everyone else has got no choice actually. 

And a good percentage of every supporter group complains in the same way (forever and a day) about their make-believe misfortune.  Is every other supporter group wrong and we're right?  Or perhaps they're all wrong,  including us.

Moaning about it all won't change a damn thing either.  The sport can't be umpired correctly so in my opinion they can only get about 70% of all decisions right.  What I've never done is jump the shark and play victim - you should do the sensible thing and do the same. 

I'm just really surprised that more people haven't come to terms with it all ... perhaps they're afraid of jumping ship?

I think Saints game was one. And there was another earlier that I think we got up for, but I forget which.

Like I said Macca, each to their own. I'm not trying to campaign to change anyone's mind.

Not looking for the rub of the green sometimes. Just for it to be as close to 50% as possible, within reason. I'm fully aware, and I suspect most on here are, of the wider implications of umpiring in footy. What's the old Axiom, you can't ever improve the kicking or umpiring in footy? Yes, yes, yes... we've heard all that and have factored it in. You should too when guessing at what we're all thinking.

Yes I'm aware all fans complain. Pies fans are classic ones. Tigers fans don't complain all that much considering they're in the negative by -100s. Bombers fans back in the day took the free kicks against and still enjoyed success. Yes, yes, yes. We know.

Moaning about it won't change, but then cheering doesn't change anything either. This is a supporter website. Most everything we DO here doesn't change anything. And no, I shouldn't do the "sensible" thing. I don't think it's sensible to turn a blind eye to something when you see it's out of whack. Playing victim would be to just go "oh well, I guess that's just our lot as Melbourne supporters."

No-one's playing victim, Macca. I'm well within my rights as any poster is to point out that this year, the umpiring has been worse than most. If you want my ACTUAL position on umpiring, then you can have it if you ask. Like you I think they do an impossible job and don't deserve the disgusting behaviour they cop. Doesn't mean you can't point out faults, or point out biases. A lot are umpire-fault, more are umpire coaching and AFL guidelines getting all screwed up. What's a footy forum for but to discuss these aspects of the game?

Come to terms with it all? You're being over-dramatic on this one, and disrespectful to your fellow posters. People are complaining because it's the only thing left to do. I've pointed out a couple of times that we do seem to get overlooked by Nicholls a lot. He, like Razor, over-officiates. That's just my opinion. I think the hometown bias does happen too, over in the West, that's been pointed out a lot. I watched last weekend's game with a WC supporter and he's sure there's been a shift since the home-town bias stuff was being talked about. You don't have to agree. You can take an opposite view if you're like. But no-one's wrong about it. The whole thing is subjective.

Actually, I think that's become the biggest issue in my view. They've taken to trying to read the minds of players. Umpires are dealt such a harsh hand, and are being expected to guess at the intentions of footballers. The end result of that is that everyone's subjective view is given more importance. It's a worry for sure. I reckon they'll see that pretty soon and improve it though. You get good years and bad years. It can't be like NFL unfortunately.

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

2 hours ago, Webber said:

To be fair Mazer, you created the punt upon which the pole wielder stands when you delivered the 3 standard deviations bombshell. ?

I wanted to go for 4 SD but my controllers in the AFL deep state department thought it a bridge too far.

[Macca 16,967]

25 minutes ago, Dappa Dan said:

I think Saints game was one. And there was another earlier that I think we got up for, but I forget which.

Like I said Macca, each to their own. I'm not trying to campaign to change anyone's mind.

Not looking for the rub of the green sometimes. Just for it to be as close to 50% as possible, within reason. I'm fully aware, and I suspect most on here are, of the wider implications of umpiring in footy. What's the old Axiom, you can't ever improve the kicking or umpiring in footy? Yes, yes, yes... we've heard all that and have factored it in. You should too when guessing at what we're all thinking.

Yes I'm aware all fans complain. Pies fans are classic ones. Tigers fans don't complain all that much considering they're in the negative by -100s. Bombers fans back in the day took the free kicks against and still enjoyed success. Yes, yes, yes. We know.

Moaning about it won't change, but then cheering doesn't change anything either. This is a supporter website. Most everything we DO here doesn't change anything. And no, I shouldn't do the "sensible" thing. I don't think it's sensible to turn a blind eye to something when you see it's out of whack. Playing victim would be to just go "oh well, I guess that's just our lot as Melbourne supporters."

No-one's playing victim, Macca. I'm well within my rights as any poster is to point out that this year, the umpiring has been worse than most. If you want my ACTUAL position on umpiring, then you can have it if you ask. Like you I think they do an impossible job and don't deserve the disgusting behaviour they cop. Doesn't mean you can't point out faults, or point out biases. A lot are umpire-fault, more are umpire coaching and AFL guidelines getting all screwed up. What's a footy forum for but to discuss these aspects of the game?

Come to terms with it all? You're being over-dramatic on this one, and disrespectful to your fellow posters. People are complaining because it's the only thing left to do. I've pointed out a couple of times that we do seem to get overlooked by Nicholls a lot. He, like Razor, over-officiates. That's just my opinion. I think the hometown bias does happen too, over in the West, that's been pointed out a lot. I watched last weekend's game with a WC supporter and he's sure there's been a shift since the home-town bias stuff was being talked about. You don't have to agree. You can take an opposite view if you're like. But no-one's wrong about it. The whole thing is subjective.

Actually, I think that's become the biggest issue in my view. They've taken to trying to read the minds of players. Umpires are dealt such a harsh hand, and are being expected to guess at the intentions of footballers. The end result of that is that everyone's subjective view is given more importance. It's a worry for sure. I reckon they'll see that pretty soon and improve it though. You get good years and bad years. It can't be like NFL unfortunately.

From my point of view the constant talk about umpires and umpiring decisions is utterly boring ... there are so many better things to talk about.

And I am not disrespecting anyone - what a load of nonsense.  I have a different opinion and I believe my opinion is the correct one.  I won't win this argument because you've got the masses on your side but I couldn't care less.  You may not realise it but I'm actually trying to calm people down. 

Expecting perfect results and consistent outcomes from a majorly flawed system reminds me of the angst directed at the drafting results. 

As previously stated,  2 days of this and I'm done.  However,  my words might have an effect on a small percentage.  And that's all I'm really aiming at. 

Edited August 22, 2018 by Macca

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

1 minute ago, Macca said:

From my point of view the constant talk about umpires and umpiring decisions is utterly boring ... there are so many better things to talk about.

And I am not disrespecting anyone - what a load of nonsense.  I have a different opinion and I believe my opinion is the correct one.  I won't win this argument because you've got the masses on your side but I couldn't care less.  You may not realise it but I'm actually trying to calm people down. 

Expecting perfect results and consistent outcomes from a majorly flawed system reminds me of the angst directed at the drafting results. 

As previously stated,  2 days of this and I'm done.  However,  my words might have an effect on a small percentage.  And that's all I'm really aiming at.  You've given me a platform to voice my views. 

Over and out.

Well, that's true. I do think there's something to noticing patterns in the umpiring when they're there. But beyond noticing, as you say, there's not much more to do.

Maybe you're not trying to, but insisting - "What I've never done is jump the shark and play victim - you should do the sensible thing and do the same." Is perhaps a little overkeen. If it makes no difference to you, then why not ignore it?

I'm not trying to argue with you! I've heard your case, I understand you believe your opinion is the correct one and i'm comfortable with that. I just don't agree. I've seen all the data, and watched all my footy and come to a different conclusion. I won't pass out advice on what other people are supposed to do with it though. I think if you're trying to calm them down as you say, that's going about it in exactly the opposite way if you wanna get anywhere. lol

Like I said already, I'm not expecting perfection. Barely anyone ever is. But there's howlers. And there's a threshold you get to with umpiring where you want it to be within a reasonably tolerable amount of predictability. I think they've fallen outside it this year. But like I said, you get good games, bad games. Good years, bad years. Or you're Hawthorn and you get good decades. lol

I'm interested in your 70% correct? Was that a rough stab? I reckon if anything, you're being unkind. I reckon they're better than that. Classic case was Dom's headbutt. The WC supporter I was with swore black and blue he deliberately headbutted Shuey's knee. That one I don't have a problem with one way or the other. You have to call it in today's climate. But if it didn't get called, I wouldn't be spitting chips. I'm not as red and blue biased as you've assumed I am.

Ah. You've been doing this 2 days? I see. That explains your tone. I only just noticed the thread. And for sure, if you're trying to influence people, then go for it. I'm not trying to influence anyone. Pointless exercise.

[Macca 16,967]

1 minute ago, Dappa Dan said:

Well, that's true. I do think there's something to noticing patterns in the umpiring when they're there. But beyond noticing, as you say, there's not much more to do.

Maybe you're not trying to, but insisting - "What I've never done is jump the shark and play victim - you should do the sensible thing and do the same." Is perhaps a little overkeen. If it makes no difference to you, then why not ignore it?

I'm not trying to argue with you! I've heard your case, I understand you believe your opinion is the correct one and i'm comfortable with that. I just don't agree. I've seen all the data, and watched all my footy and come to a different conclusion. I won't pass out advice on what other people are supposed to do with it though. I think if you're trying to calm them down as you say, that's going about it in exactly the opposite way if you wanna get anywhere. lol

Like I said already, I'm not expecting perfection. Barely anyone ever is. But there's howlers. And there's a threshold you get to with umpiring where you want it to be within a reasonably tolerable amount of predictability. I think they've fallen outside it this year. But like I said, you get good games, bad games. Good years, bad years. Or you're Hawthorn and you get good decades. lol

I'm interested in your 70% correct? Was that a rough stab? I reckon if anything, you're being unkind. I reckon they're better than that. Classic case was Dom's headbutt. The WC supporter I was with swore black and blue he deliberately headbutted Shuey's knee. That one I don't have a problem with one way or the other. You have to call it in today's climate. But if it didn't get called, I wouldn't be spitting chips. I'm not as red and blue biased as you've assumed I am.

Ah. You've been doing this 2 days? I see. That explains your tone. I only just noticed the thread. And for sure, if you're trying to influence people, then go for it. I'm not trying to influence anyone. Pointless exercise.

I see the same umpiring mistakes that everyone else sees but my preferred stance is that the reason we see so many mistakes is because of the nature of the sport.  So yeah,  I reckon 3 out of 10 decisions or non decisions are inorrect.  But I am not blaming the umpires so I am not being harsh.  It's a system problem. 

Other people here have expressed a view similar to mine if you care to read the whole thread.  So yeah,  it's boring but I enjoy reading about the game,  not about the officiating.  Whatever floats your boat though.  Why should people like me be turned away from the footy threads just because we have a differing view. 

The game-day thread fair enough but the other games thread is full of umpire angst and other threads the same.  Who talks about the actual game?  That's what many here want to talk and read about.

People are quite within their rights to have different opinions but the hysteria concerns me ... especially in regards to Mathew Nicholls.  Now I'm prepared to speak up about the hate and anger directed towards him.  Are others?

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Just now, Macca said:

I see the same umpiring mistakes that everyone else sees but my preferred stance is that the reason we see so many mistakes is because of the nature of the sport.  So yeah,  I reckon 3 out of 10 decisions or non decisions are inorrect.  But I am not blaming the umpires so I am not being harsh.  It's a system problem. 

Other people here have expressed a view similar to mine if you care to read the whole thread.  So yeah,  it's boring but I enjoy reading about the game,  not about the officiating.  Whatever floats your boat though.  Why should people like me be turned away from the footy threads just because we have a differing view. 

The game-day thread fair enough but the other games thread is full of umpire angst and other threads the same.  Who talks about the actual game?  That's what many here want to talk and read about.

People are quite within their rights to have different opinions but the hysteria concerns me ... especially in regards to Mathew Nicholls.  Now I'm prepared to speak up about the hate and anger directed towards him.  Are others?

I didn't say you should be turned away! You're the one that proposed everyone just get over it. For what it's worth I think this thread makes sense. It was a controversial game umpiring wise. Not THAT controversial, I guess, but certainly notable. Only reason I posted was because it's interesting how usually you do get a leaning one way or the other... this is a weird one in that impartials seemed to think WC got the rub of the green. Seems odd to me. Not really that important going forward, but still odd.

Yeah fair enough if you're over the umpire talk taking over all threads. I tend to leave game day threads alone these days because of the targeting of every player's mistakes. Seems to be a lot of absolute views, like Tyson should never play another game, we'll never make finals, we can't win this (and then we do).

re: Nicholls. I dunno mate. I don't think I'm seeing the same threads as you are. He's certainly been targeted, and I'm comfortable with that. But I haven't seen the hysteria. I'm very picky these days about what threads and posters I read. Demonland was, once upon a time, a spirited place to go. It's so big now I reckon it's got a bit watered down in terms of quality posters.  I'll just have to take your word on the hysteria thing.

Bloody hell. Pre-season really is dragging.

[Macca 16,967]

12 minutes ago, Dappa Dan said:

Yeah fair enough if you're over the umpire talk taking over all threads. I tend to leave game day threads alone these days because of the targeting of every player's mistakes. Seems to be a lot of absolute views, like Tyson should never play another game, we'll never make finals, we can't win this (and then we do).

re: Nicholls. I dunno mate. I don't think I'm seeing the same threads as you are. He's certainly been targeted, and I'm comfortable with that. But I haven't seen the hysteria.

So you're comfortable with Mathew Nicholls being targeted?  Why?  What has he done wrong? See there's the problem in a nutshell. 

He's just trying to umpire an un-umpirable sport to the best of his ability.  I wouldn't do it for quids.  Actually, the umps get paid very well for a part-time job but I still wouldn't ever contemplate doing it.  Who needs that grief?

I can't point you to the relevant threads because the hate & angst towards Mathew Nicholls happens randomly in various threads.  But it does happen and it shouldn't happen.

As for the posters here who slag off at players in an unnecessary way on a constant basis,  I just put them on ignore.

Edited August 22, 2018 by Macca

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

2 minutes ago, Macca said:

So you're comfortable with Mathew Nicholls being targeted?  Why?  What has he done wrong? See there's the problem in a nutshell. 

He's just trying to umpire an un-umpirable sport to the best of his ability.  I wouldn't do it for quids.  Actually, the umps get paid very well for a part-time job but I still wouldn't ever contemplate doing it.  Who needs that grief?

I can't point you to the relevant threads because the hate & angst towards Mathew Nicholls happens randomly in various threads.  But it does happen and it shouldn't happen.

As for the posters here who slag off at players in an unnecessary way on a constant basis,  I just put them on ignore.

Again mate, we have differing views. I think he umpires worse than others. You don't have to agree, I'm just putting out my view. And I don't agree that having a specific view on a specific umpire automatically is a problem, or makes someone "wrong."

But yes otherwise I'm with you. What would be nice is if fans pointed out when an umpire did well. Not that that'll happen. But at least you could see some balance.

Yeah I always try to resist using the block function. I worry that I'd end up coming to dland and seeing nothing but "you've chosen to block poster X" over and over again. lol

[Macca 16,967]

17 minutes ago, Dappa Dan said:

Again mate, we have differing views. I think he umpires worse than others.

But yes otherwise I'm with you. What would be nice is if fans pointed out when an umpire did well. Not that that'll happen. But at least you could see some balance.

Mathew Nicholls umpires in an un-umpirable sport.  So in a flawed system you are going to get skewed results.  That just stands to reason.  Some umps are going to better than others but they're all on a hiding to nothing.  The lack of respect towards umpires really jumps out at me and always has. And you'll never see 'balance' so that is a pipe-dream as well. 

The main thrust of my argument is that I reckon we spend far too much time concerning ourselves with the adjudication in an un-umpirable sport.  My views aren't going to curtail things to any sort of a degree but I may get some people thinking about how they view umpiring.  That's all. 

Edited August 22, 2018 by Macca

[binman 42,926]

Get a room.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Just now, Macca said:

Mathew Nicholls umpires in an un-umpirable sport.  So in a flawed system you are going to get skewed results.  That just stands to reason.  Some umps are going to better than others but they're all on a hiding to nothing.  The lack of respect towards umpires really jumps out at me and always has. And you'll never see 'balance' so that is a pipe-dream as well. 

The main thrust of my argument is that I reckon we spend far too much time concerning ourselves with the adjudication in an un-umpirable sport.  My views aren't going to curtail things to any sort of a degree but I may get people thinking about how they view umpiring.  That's all. 

I know it's a pipe dream mate. That's what I said. I'M AWARE Nicholls umpires an unumpirable sport. They ALL do. But they don't seem to make the same types of mistakes he does. What I don't think you're hearing is that we all know it's a tough job. We hear it. And we all have a threshold of bad decisions we can cope with. You might be right that people on here are a bit aggressive when it comes to umpire abuse. I dunno, I don't stick around here long enough to see it. But there is a large proportion who point out specific umpires mistakes and are entitled to do so because they see a difference in the way he umpires to the way other umpires go about their work. In other words, I'M WITH YOU on defending umpires, but not 100% of the time. SOMETIMES pointing the finger at them (or more often, the AFL rulesmakers) is appropriate. I understand you don't agree, but my view isn't wrong. It's just different. Same as yours.

And perhaps you think we do spend too much time concerning ourselves with it. That's your view, and that's fine. But it's also not wrong to suggest that in the changing world of AFL footy (and it is chaging... rapidly) staying on top of what makes umpiring "good" and what makes it "bad" is something that should rightly preoccupy the greater football public. One thing, for example, is the suggestion that some umpires want to control games more than others. To reel in players' behaviours and try to prevent them from falling outside the rules. That's a good example of something Razor's been accused of for years, that I'd like to see stamped out. Way too often the players break the rules and the umpires try to control them like school children. I worry that the AFL has given them that instruction, rather than it coming from themselves... either way though, it's a superfluous thing that COULD be controlled a bit better.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

7 minutes ago, binman said:

Get a room.

 

12 minutes ago, Macca said:

 

Might be a good time to PM.

[Macca 16,967]

2 minutes ago, Dappa Dan said:

I know it's a pipe dream mate. That's what I said. I'M AWARE Nicholls umpires an unumpirable sport. They ALL do. But they don't seem to make the same types of mistakes he does. What I don't think you're hearing is that we all know it's a tough job. We hear it. And we all have a threshold of bad decisions we can cope with. You might be right that people on here are a bit aggressive when it comes to umpire abuse. I dunno, I don't stick around here long enough to see it. But there is a large proportion who point out specific umpires mistakes and are entitled to do so because they see a difference in the way he umpires to the way other umpires go about their work. In other words, I'M WITH YOU on defending umpires, but not 100% of the time. SOMETIMES pointing the finger at them (or more often, the AFL rulesmakers) is appropriate. I understand you don't agree, but my view isn't wrong. It's just different. Same as yours.

And perhaps you think we do spend too much time concerning ourselves with it. That's your view, and that's fine. But it's also not wrong to suggest that in the changing world of AFL footy (and it is chaging... rapidly) staying on top of what makes umpiring "good" and what makes it "bad" is something that should rightly preoccupy the greater football public. One thing, for example, is the suggestion that some umpires want to control games more than others. To reel in players' behaviours and try to prevent them from falling outside the rules. That's a good example of something Razor's been accused of for years, that I'd like to see stamped out. Way too often the players break the rules and the umpires try to control them like school children. I worry that the AFL has given them that instruction, rather than it coming from themselves... either way though, it's a superfluous thing that COULD be controlled a bit better.

We are diametrically opposed on this issue ... I'm being quite honest when I say I almost always never notice the umpires,  any decisions they make or any aftermath.  My view is that the better team generally wins.

I watch the sport in a completely different way to most because my view is that the umpires are in a no-win situation in a sport that is un-umpirable.  So I switch off in compartmental way.

Try watching one game as I do - not a Demons game,  some other random game where you don't have a dog in the fight.  Not even a tip.  A game where you don't care who wins.  Ignore every umpiring decision and just watch the football.  Here's the thing,  we can do that with other sports but it's very hard to do it with footy.  But it can be done. 

Then you'll see my view as I see it - I already know and acknowledge your view - I've seen and heard it 1000's of times.  No disrespect meant there either.  You are one of many.

The above mght suit someone else Dappa because when we post here,  it's an open forum. 

[Wolfgang219 73]

On 8/21/2018 at 5:50 PM, sue said:

Rigging of the Sunday game is absolute nonsense.  But it does seem possible that the AFL and maybe individual umpires have woken up to the historical pro-WCE bias which the stats show is a fact.   And so maybe there was an instruction from the AFL (or self-realization by umps) to consciously resist crowd influence.  In which case, good, about bloody time. 

Furthermore there is no evidence that they over-reacted and leant too far the other way because for every mistake made someone can point to a mistake the other way.

 

The AFL have banned the WA based umpires from West Coast games since round 14. Probably around that reddit post!!! 

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.perthnow.com.au/sport/west-coast-eagles/unofficial-ban-lifted-as-wa-umpires-return-to-perth-for-western-derby-ng-b88914129z.amp

 

Margett (a WA based umpire) was a best man at a West Coast players wedding. I’m sure they don’t intend to be biased but I think the stats might refute that.