On 22/07/2018 at 01:18, Mach5 said:

Should WERRIDEE post in this forum again..?

Fairly crap OP

He should give us his 'never play again' predicted best 22 to make the world a better place again. 

I can't understand why people are having a go at Oscar. Last night it was the midfield in the centre bounces that got done for about 10 mins in the last quarter that cost us. No body would have stopped those passes to Hawkins.

JKH is not up to afl standard.

  On 22/07/2018 at 03:21, dl4e said:

I can't understand why people are having a go at Oscar. Last night it was the midfield in the centre bounces that got done for about 10 mins in the last quarter that cost us. No body would have stopped those passes to Hawkins.

JKH is not up to afl standard.

at some point you have to accept responsibility. if he kicks 14 goals, is that all the midfield? i'd prefer smith or frost every day of the week

Oscar was a victim of being thrown under a bus. He's not brilliant but gaining in some effectiveness but only in particular roles. The whole backline is undermanned and not gelling currently.

I made a comment somewhere before the game that with Pig out Oscar would be opened up..and he was. Not all of his doing as he's told to play a zone game...and that affords space. Why he was on Hawkins is the issue. 

Oscar stays...but needs better help...and match ups.

Harris... thanks Jay.... unfortunately time's up.

 

  On 21/07/2018 at 22:46, Johnny Karate said:

Silly post regarding O Mac. Matthew Scarlett would struggle with some of the delivery opposition teams seem to get inside 50 against us. It’s a team defence/structure/O Mac’s age, size and experience that hinders team.

JKH is done. Really enjoyed his efforts in 2014 but he hasn’t really developed any further. 

If O.Mac done one simple thing then I wouldn't blame him and that is put body contact on Hawk. He never puts body contact on anyone that's how he stuffed up against Cox and he done the same thing against Hawk. Until he puts body contact on a player he shouldn't be in the side. Time for Drunkin's bro to have a go.

McDonald: yes, next week. Stupid to think otherwise.

Kennedy-Harris: on borrowed time. Might play again this year, but won’t be on the list next season.

  On 22/07/2018 at 06:08, WERRIDEE said:

If O.Mac done one simple thing then I wouldn't blame him and that is put body contact on Hawk. He never puts body contact on anyone that's how he stuffed up against Cox and he done the same thing against Hawk. Until he puts body contact on a player he shouldn't be in the side. Time for Drunkin's bro to have a go.

Everyone's entitled to their own opinion and fair enough if you think Oscar is a rubbish footballer. But he's not going anywhere its just that simple, the FD have invested a lot of time and development in him. You only need to hear how the other players speak of him and how highly they rate him. He's not a damaging smothering key back. He's a 22 yr old who has done a great job bar maybe 3-4 occasions this year. With McDonald moving forward and Lever out he's been more exposed but he's battled on really well.

He was given a belting last night by a seasoned (30 yr old) key forward at the very top of his game. Big deal. Rance was given at least two similar beatings last year.

Give the kid a break. He's going to be our full back for quite a while so you may as well get used to it.

Edited July 22, 20186 yr by Yung Blood

  On 21/07/2018 at 20:19, bing181 said:

Not half as woeful as this little contribution from you.

Pathetic.

When are you going to talk football instead of attack posters? Trust Wiseblood to be involved the worst poster on demonland. Fork em is right about you.

Obvious answer, Omac - yes.

JKH, thank you for your services and wish you all the best.

JKH unlikely to be with us next year imo. 

Omac is our long term kpd. We are missing Lever and now Hibberd which take the heat off him. That mark and subsequent kick in the last with 1.35min to go showed more maturity than Trac, JKH or Jeffy's efforts in the dying minutes

  On 22/07/2018 at 06:14, Yung Blood said:

Everyone's entitled to their own opinion and fair enough if you think Oscar is a rubbish footballer. But he's not going anywhere its just that simple, the FD have invested a lot of time and development in him. You only need to hear how the other players speak of him and how highly they rate him. He's not a damaging smothering key back. He's a 22 yr old who has done a great job bar maybe 3-4 occasions this year. With McDonald moving forward and Lever out he's been more exposed but he's battled on really well.

He was given a belting last night by a seasoned key forward at the very top of his game. Big deal. Rance was given at least two similar beatings last year.

Give the kid a break. He's going to be our full back for quite a while so you may as well get used to it.

3 to 4 times is a lot. They have all been recently, since the Pies game his form has been disgraceful. 6 weeks of woeful football shouldn't stop him from being dropped BRING IN THE KEILTY.

  On 21/07/2018 at 20:14, praha said:

100%. On our forwards and mids. Lazy last quarter.

100%.  Mids/forwards need to learn how to defend in stoppages.  Omac is off but up against it when the balls coming in that quick

Oscar is developing ahead of time for a tall back. However, he needs to realise how important the small things are in beating the best and helping the team win.

JKH is being asked to do more than he is capable of providing IMO. We rewarded form and that is what good teams do.

Edited July 22, 20186 yr by rpfc
Ahead for bagels. Autocorrect nonsense

  On 22/07/2018 at 06:35, WERRIDEE said:

3 to 4 times is a lot. They have all been recently, since the Pies game his form has been disgraceful. 6 weeks of woeful football shouldn't stop him from being dropped BRING IN THE KEILTY.

OK so he definitely had a bad game on Cox, can't really blame him there with no other talls around him to help out. And like I said he was thoroughly beaten by a 30 yr old beast playing career best football over the past two games.

But those other four weeks you speak of:

Dixon - 1 Goal, 9 disp, 5 marks

Mccartin - 2 Goals, 12 disp, 4 marks

Brennan Cox - 1 Goal, 10 disp, 3 marks

Josh Schache - 2 Goals, 15 disp, 8 marks

He played his role and did the job. Some of the opposition was average yes. But he's been doing it all season. He's had a tough job taking on the oppositions best key forward and restricted them pretty consistantly. Does he turn the ball over? Yes, Just about every player does once a game. Does he make mistakes? yup. But he's developing nicely and learning every game so why stunt that by dropping him after a beating by a superior player?

I believe Keilty has been developing well at Casey and think he deserves a game before the year is out. But I'm sorry Werridee but it wont be in place of Oscar McDonald.

 

  On 22/07/2018 at 07:40, Yung Blood said:

OK so he definitely had a bad game on Cox, can't really blame him there with no other talls around him to help out. And like I said he was thoroughly beaten by a 30 yr old beast playing career best football over the past two games.

But those other four weeks you speak of:

Dixon - 1 Goal, 9 disp, 5 marks

Mccartin - 2 Goals, 12 disp, 4 marks

Brennan Cox - 1 Goal, 10 disp, 3 marks

Josh Schache - 2 Goals, 15 disp, 8 marks

He played his role and did the job. Some of the opposition was average yes. But he's been doing it all season. He's had a tough job taking on the oppositions best key forward and restricted them pretty consistantly. Does he turn the ball over? Yes, Just about every player does once a game. Does he make mistakes? yup. But he's developing nicely and learning every game so why stunt that by dropping him after a beating by a superior player?

I believe Keilty has been developing well at Casey and think he deserves a game before the year is out. But I'm sorry Werridee but it wont be in place of Oscar McDonald.

 

He had a good game against Dixon but I thought those other games he was poor.

  On 22/07/2018 at 06:15, layzie said:

Obvious answer, Omac - yes.

JKH, thank you for your services and wish you all the best.

Unfortunately, and for reasons which I cannot comprehend, that isn't obvious to some.

  On 22/07/2018 at 07:43, WERRIDEE said:

He had a good game against Dixon but I thought those other games he was poor.

Apart from Brown, Cox and Roughhead he's had a very solid season. If you believe he's had a poor season that is your own opinion fair enough, but for me apart from those three he has kept his direct opposition to 3 goals or under (mostly 1-2 goals per game). I personally can't ask for much more from a developing 22 yr old.

  On 22/07/2018 at 00:00, rjay said:

Make no mistake, his was the final bad decision that cost us the game.

What about every other bad decision during the 120 minutes of footy, plus all the skill error during the game that resulted in missed opportunities and turnovers?

There were many, many incidents that had more impact than Frost's decision.

I reckon it's such a lazy, simplistic analysis to blame errors at the death when, in a close game, many moments right across the game have impacted on the margin.

PS. I don't rate JKH.

Edited July 22, 20186 yr by Rogue

  On 22/07/2018 at 02:01, jnrmac said:

We should draft Zac Dawson to replace Oscar. He would still be better than Oscar.

Sam Collins a realistic alternative!

  On 22/07/2018 at 02:21, demons123452000 said:

I sit here and read most things written on  Demonland and enjoy most but this thread is CRAP not one mention of 2 main backs out injured, blame the flankers for not one of them dropping in front of the raging fullforward ,could have landed a 747 down the middle so have a think before you hit the key board.

The cats are a well coached team. They dragged the flankers away to create space. Oscar was caught up in his zoning mentality and didn't take the dangerous space in front of Hawkins.

Same thing happened with Lever in round 1 where every other cat forward dragged away and left Sav Rat on Lever with room in front.

At some stage defenders have to defend. No one was expecting Oscar to keep Hawkins goal less but 6 on him and plenty of other handy pick ups and dish offs when clearly first to the ball killed us.

Chris Scott might be a fool but he's a smart one.

God some people are stupid. Kennedy-Harris played one good game, and that was in 2014. McDonald has been excellent for 90% of this season. Who would you play instead? Petty? Keilty? [censored] stupid.

  On 22/07/2018 at 08:46, DeeSpencer said:

The cats are a well coached team. They dragged the flankers away to create space. Oscar was caught up in his zoning mentality and didn't take the dangerous space in front of Hawkins.

 

Honestly, how do you suppose he defends the space in front, without zoning in front of Hawkins? But doing that the ball would have been kicked to Hawkins just as easily. The next defensive alternative is to play back shoulder, but with the way the ball was moved to him, it wouldn’t have made a difference. Surely you can see that whilst understandably Oscar didn’t have his best outing, if the ball is kicked on a platter like it was that there is not much a defender can do? 

 

That said, the fact in that last quarter we kept players running through from the back of the contest as opposed to taking the defensive position and dropping into the space is what hurt. We did not have the ascendency that one would have expected trough the middle, and Geelong took full advantage of it in the last. 

 

Also Keilty ain’t up to it, will be delisted at season end. Unpopular position to take, seems a lovely kid, doesn’t have any stand out attributes that translate to AFL IMO 

Edited July 22, 20186 yr by Mad_Melbourne

  On 22/07/2018 at 10:02, Mad_Melbourne said:

Honestly, how do you suppose he defends the space in front, without zoning in front of Hawkins? But doing that the ball would have been kicked to Hawkins just as easily. The next defensive alternative is to play back shoulder, but with the way the ball was moved to him, it wouldn’t have made a difference. Surely you can see that whilst understandably Oscar didn’t have his best outing, if the ball is kicked on a platter like it was that there is not much a defender can do? 

 

That said, the fact in that last quarter we kept players running through from the back of the contest as opposed to taking the defensive position and dropping into the space is what hurt. We did not have the ascendency that one would have expected trough the middle, and Geelong took full advantage of it in the last. 

 

Also Keilty ain’t up to it, will be delisted at season end. Unpopular position to take, seems a lovely kid, doesn’t have any stand out attributes that translate to AFL IMO 

I meant that Oscar is usually the deepest defender - that's his spot in the zone - and was caught trying to cover the back because that has been his role for most of the year. With pressure up the ground he's often stayed deep and let the forward come back to him. He holds his ground well and that's how he was taking his marks. 

He clearly had to get in front and stay there but it wasn't natural for him and so he was turned around by Hawkins multiple times and once Hawkins had a lead he had no pace to close.

I'm not buying that every single kick to Hawkins - who had a stack of the footy including winning the ball off the ground - came from great delivery. Certainly the off the ground goal where he beat Oscar for speed/anticipation wasn't and a number of others weren't either.

I'm not a huge Keilty fan, I'd give him a go if we needed a CHB against the right match up, but I'm not huge on him or Pedersen playing next week, the match ups don't look right. But if they did I'd gladly send Oscar back to the 2's, he's been off the pace for 6 weeks.

Frost is in far better form since he had a good spell in the 2's. He's not a superstar but he's positioning himself much better, at least using the ball well by hand and holding some marks. Oscar is losing the confidence to aggressively attack contests and hold his marks that he had in the first 10 weeks of the year. 

  On 22/07/2018 at 07:59, Rogue said:

What about every other bad decision during the 120 minutes of footy, plus all the skill error during the game that resulted in missed opportunities and turnovers?

There were many, many incidents that had more impact than Frost's decision.

I reckon it's such a lazy, simplistic analysis to blame errors at the death when, in a close game, many moments right across the game have impacted on the margin.

PS. I don't rate JKH.

If you notice my posts on this I'm talking about Frost's positioning and of course you are right that many things go to a loss of this type. So many what if's...what if Goody hadn't taken Max off for a rest when the Cats got their run on.

What if Gawn took that boundary throw in, what if he didn't clash heads with the Geelong player, what if Nichols wasn't the 23rd Cat...lots of what if's...

However, Frost lost his spot in the team in a big part due to his positioning. He often finds himself in no mans land, stuck in the wrong places and I'm concerned he hasn't learned his lessons. He keeps making the same mistakes.

  On 22/07/2018 at 10:57, DeeSpencer said:

He's not a superstar but he's positioning himself much better,

He's most certainly not 'Dee', go and have another look.

Frost is ok when the ball is coming straight at him, apart from that he has no idea.

  On 22/07/2018 at 10:59, rjay said:

 

He's most certainly not 'Dee', go and have another look.

Frost is ok when the ball is coming straight at him, apart from that he has no idea.

No arguments for me on the final play but for the rest of the game, the Darwin game (both on TV which never shows you the full picture) and for the Dogs game which I saw live I had no great issues with his positioning. The same dumb rushing up for tackles at times and the fake tough guy go the bump after the contest has been lost that Vince and several others of our backline/team love but all in all I think he's improved since with his time in the VFL.

Anyway, we need Lever back and Hibberd and Joel Smith to keep improving and a healthy in form Hunt wouldn't hurt either, but barring that we need Oscar to find his legs and attack the game again.

Maybe it's an issue of game time? Last time I checked Oscar had played more minutes than anyone in the comp. Jenkins going off to ruck could help him see more bench time and split the minutes more evenly through 7 defenders. That alone could get him running with more intensity.

  On 22/07/2018 at 10:57, DeeSpencer said:

Pedersen playing next week, the match ups don't look right.

If Tex is playing he might be a better match up than Frost but it would be a punt 'Dee'...

Oscar can take Jane...