4 minutes ago, McQueen said:

From the AFL site:

Watts Cycle

Goodwin again going public on Watts saying that hardly anything has changed over the years.

I can't see Jack wanting to stay at all.

Goodwin's got every right to explain why Watts is no longer the right fit for us. He's damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't.

14 minutes ago, McQueen said:

I just want Jack Watts gone so we can stop talking about him.

It's exhausting.

For some reason I don't think going to another club is going to stop the JW talk around here. 

6 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

For some reason I don't think going to another club is going to stop the JW talk around here. 

Wherever he ends up I hope that clubs fan forum beefs up its admin dept.

16 minutes ago, McQueen said:

From the AFL site:

Watts Cycle

Goodwin again going public on Watts saying that hardly anything has changed over the years.

I can't see Jack wanting to stay at all.

Hmm, I'm all for moving him on as some of his attributes annoy me as much as his kicking delights me but Goodwin shouldn't be doing this IMO. I agree with him wholeheartedly which is why I want him gone but this isn't the way to do it. There really must be a lot more to this story than we are hearing IMO.

Personally I would keep Watts as he has vision and skill to execute, and Melbourne do not have many highly skilled players.

If Goodwin and the FD feel he is not committed to being professional, then it is probably time he moves on. It just feels like we haven't got his best and anywhere near what he should be capable of producing.

My hope is we get something good in exchange, that brings skills we lack.

 

24 minutes ago, Ouch! said:

Care to name a player that has managed to turn around their career after 9 seasons?  Isn't it the players responsibility to get the most out of their career as much as it is the coaches? Watts has been cuddled, given rockets, played in defence, forward, wing and ruck. I thought last year was a really promising season and that this was his turning point, only to see him let it slide over the preseason, not turning up in condition. I don't blame him for the form after his hamstring injury, but I do blame him for his preparation at the start of the season. 
I always liked to compare Watts to Goddard, but the penny dropped for Goddard after about 5-6 seasons. Jury still out with Watts unfortunately.

Understand these comments.

As a loyalist I hate to see players go. Call it sentimentality or stupidity but I hate to see players traded particularly those who have been loyal to the club and have good skills.

Like others, Jack has frustrated the hell out of me at times, particularly with his defensive game and chasing.

However, 

-he is skilled and has attributes lacking in most of his team mates, 

-a beautiful set shot for goal. 

-creative, reads the play and his passing accuracy by foot is superb and creates opportunities. Under pressure his decision making is quick and his disposal usually accurate.

-has speed.

-can play all over the ground,and, importantly can ruck, important for 2018 with our only key ruckman being Gawn, a player with a high injury risk.

In regard to 2017, he had a pretty good season. He did well up forward and did well in the ruck. He then did his hammy and was struggling when he came back, just like Maxy.  It just seems a strange time to let him go after his 2017 season. 

The only unknown to me is his off-field stuff and attitude around Goodwin, other coaches and players. The "cultural issues" that is clearly a driver for Goodwin. 

The only other comment is that I have been around the place long enough to know that "difference" is never tolerated or treated well in organisations. There is an existing social order and convention in all organisations that produce conformity in behaviour, attitude and views. I also know that there is always a prejudice against different cats and they suffer intolerance and unfairness.  However, good organisations have a collective of different types of people that bring something to the table. if properly recognized, these same people can be excellent team players if allowed a bit of freedom and support. I have seen too many talented people let go or forced to resign because they were different. Bosses and footy coaches don't value what they bring to the table.  Good teams have a group of different characters that are still team orientated. Richmond is a case in point.

OK, I hear the critics say that Jack has been given many chances over now a relatively long career of 9 years and 150 odd games, however, I will be sad to see him go and think the timing is not right. I see we potentially lose more than we gain over the next 12 months. Jeremy Howe is a recent example of a player that was let go, yet has flourished at the Pies. 

I also think that clubs, but particularly Melbourne has to be very careful how it treats loyalty. It is becoming a rare commodity and should be valued and not trashed. Perhaps removing Watts can improve the culture if he adversely impacts his teammates, but it could also adversely impact the team if he is a positive influence.

2 hours ago, Fifty-5 said:

It's clear that the winning the contest is non-negotiable for Simon Goodwin and it is negotiable for Jack Watts.  This has been made clear to Jack and he has been unable to modify his behaviour.  We have been decent in contested ground balls but we are pathetic at the aerial contest and Jack Watts at 196cm offers nothing here.  So he will be traded.

The last 2 GFs vindicate this position - contested possessions Tigers 170 v Crows 140, Dogs 172 v Swans 149 - the less talented team won both flags - it's that simple.

Looking at market value.  Jake Melksham for 25, Michael Hibberd for 29 and late pick upgrade.  That where he sits.

Excellent post. I'm unashamedly a JW fan, but I think the big thing is that Goodwin has a role that he has wanted Watts to play and he has failed to deliver. Goodwin looks at Watts' height, strength, and says "fly for the ball, crash packs, bring the ball to ground if you can't mark it". Goodwin is a subscriber of the Richmond model, not the Adelaide model. The problem with this for Watts is that he isn't that sort of player, and never will be. Watts strength had always been a lead up player who can deliver the ball well into the 50, and can kick any goal from a mark inside 50.

Roos understood this and knew his limitations.

Goodwin tried to change Watts and failed. 

Whoever recruits him, hopefully Longmire, will understand the type of player he is and not try and turn him into a Travis Cloke who he has never been.

It's Jack's fault for not being flexible enough to play a new role, but I also blame Goodwin for trying something which was clearly not going to work and was too stubborn to realise this and overlook all the other great assets Watts possesses. 

1 hour ago, Ouch! said:

Care to name a player that has managed to turn around their career after 9 seasons?  Isn't it the players responsibility to get the most out of their career as much as it is the coaches? Watts has been cuddled, given rockets, played in defence, forward, wing and ruck. I thought last year was a really promising season and that this was his turning point, only to see him let it slide over the preseason, not turning up in condition. I don't blame him for the form after his hamstring injury, but I do blame him for his preparation at the start of the season. 
I always liked to compare Watts to Goddard, but the penny dropped for Goddard after about 5-6 seasons. Jury still out with Watts unfortunately.

Liam Jones.

That said, I agree with your comments and trust the club with this call.

37 minutes ago, SFebey said:

Hmm, I'm all for moving him on as some of his attributes annoy me as much as his kicking delights me but Goodwin shouldn't be doing this IMO. I agree with him wholeheartedly which is why I want him gone but this isn't the way to do it. There really must be a lot more to this story than we are hearing IMO.

He's been doing it at other social events too. Heard a description of Watts' leading patterns that was far from complimentary. 

1 hour ago, Ouch! said:

Care to name a player that has managed to turn around their career after 9 seasons?  Isn't it the players responsibility to get the most out of their career as much as it is the coaches? Watts has been cuddled, given rockets, played in defence, forward, wing and ruck. I thought last year was a really promising season and that this was his turning point, only to see him let it slide over the preseason, not turning up in condition. I don't blame him for the form after his hamstring injury, but I do blame him for his preparation at the start of the season. 
I always liked to compare Watts to Goddard, but the penny dropped for Goddard after about 5-6 seasons. Jury still out with Watts unfortunately.

Bernie Quinlan.

24 minutes ago, hemingway said:

...

The only unknown to me is his off-field stuff and attitude around Goodwin, other coaches and players. The "cultural issues" that is clearly a driver for Goodwin. 

The only other comment is that I have been around the place long enough to know that "difference" is never tolerated or treated well in organisations. There is an existing social order and convention in all organisations that produce conformity in behaviour, attitude and views. I also know that there is always a prejudice against different cats and they suffer intolerance and unfairness.  However, good organisations have a collective of different types of people that bring something to the table. if properly recognized, these same people can be excellent team players if allowed a bit of freedom and support. I have seen too many talented people let go or forced to resign because they were different. Bosses and footy coaches don't value what they bring to the table.  Good teams have a group of different characters that are still team orientated. Richmond is a case in point.

OK, I hear the critics say that Jack has been given many chances over now a relatively long career of 9 years and 150 odd games, however, I will be sad to see him go and think the timing is not right. I see we potentially lose more than we gain over the next 12 months. Jeremy Howe is a recent example of a player that was let go, yet has flourished at the Pies. 

I also think that clubs, but particularly Melbourne has to be very careful how it treats loyalty. It is becoming a rare commodity and should be valued and not trashed. Perhaps removing Watts can improve the culture if he adversely impacts his teammates, but it could also adversely impact the team if he is a positive influence.

Brilliant post, this whole part hits the nail on the head.

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

 

Reading between the lines I find it hard to believe there isn't more going on behind the scenes that they don't want to go public with. 

That’s what i believe to

Goodwin is still dangling a Carrot in front of JW

It is up to Jack as to whether he accepts it. 

Solid guidlines have obviously been set down, that are not negotiable

but Jack hasn’t been kicked out. He has been given an ultimatum. 

And i bet my left ball it would be no different at the Swans

15 minutes ago, At the break of Gawn said:

He's been doing it at other social events too. Heard a description of Watts' leading patterns that was far from complimentary. 

Gee, not good. You'd think he'd be capable of keeping his thoughts to himself, at least until after trade period.

That is exactly how I see it Sir!

This is a real time test for Jack.

Make a statement  of intent,knuckle down,commit, do the work and show the long suffering supporters that you want success

Or leave for a percieved easier life where not too much is expected and he can continue the lifestyle to which he has grown accustomed

25 minutes ago, At the break of Gawn said:

He's been doing it at other social events too. Heard a description of Watts' leading patterns that was far from complimentary. 

Sorry, i'm not what you men with this post. Both sentences confuse me. 

Please explain.

36 minutes ago, hemingway said:

The only other comment is that I have been around the place long enough to know that "difference" is never tolerated or treated well in organisations. There is an existing social order and convention in all organisations that produce conformity in behaviour, attitude and views. I also know that there is always a prejudice against different cats and they suffer intolerance and unfairness.  However, good organisations have a collective of different types of people that bring something to the table. if properly recognized, these same people can be excellent team players if allowed a bit of freedom and support. I have seen too many talented people let go or forced to resign because they were different. Bosses and footy coaches don't value what they bring to the table.  Good teams have a group of different characters that are still team orientated. Richmond is a case in point.

OK, I hear the critics say that Jack has been given many chances over now a relatively long career of 9 years and 150 odd games, however, I will be sad to see him go and think the timing is not right. I see we potentially lose more than we gain over the next 12 months. Jeremy Howe is a recent example of a player that was let go, yet has flourished at the Pies. 

Organisations have fundamental values that must be embraced by all and Jack is unable to embrace the fundamental appetite for the contest.

Yeah Jeremy Howe is flourishing at a team which finished 13th - he represents their model.

I wrote to the Club re Jack and received this response

"Thank you for taking the time to contact the Melbourne Football Club.

As you can imagine, list management is one of the most critical and important aspects of all AFL Clubs and in such a competitive industry, decisions must be made with the Club's success as the main focus. 

At the end of the season, both Jack and the Club met to have a mature discussion about the future. Both parties agreed that after 9 years at the Club, the timing was right for Jack to explore potential opportunities for 2018. 

This does not mean Jack is leaving the Club. He is a contracted player and if we believe that after looking at all the options, the best thing is for Jack to remain at the footy club, then that will happen. Similarly, if a deal presents itself that satisfies both the Club and Jack, then we will explore that as an option during the trade period. 

The Club's number one priority is to improve our playing list and that will be the driving force behind any decision made in this area. 

As soon as any decision during the upcoming trade period is finalised, we will ensure that this is communicated to our supporters and members.

Thank you again for your support and we look forward to having you on board in 2018!"

Kind regards, 

Stephanie Breheny MFC

14 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

That’s what i believe to

Goodwin is still dangling a Carrot in front of JW

It is up to Jack as to whether he accepts it. 

Solid guidlines have obviously been set down, that are not negotiable

but Jack hasn’t been kicked out. He has been given an ultimatum. 

And i bet my left ball it would be no different at the Swans

Goodwin isn't dangling any carrot, he doesn't want him there, he's lost complete patience as per commentary. Even Watts himself has said personally he has been booted out and referring us to "they." Here no Carrot, no carrot here. Only rockets. The more to the story bit is Watts has done something more than what we see and here. It'll all come out eventually but he's goneski full stop.

13 minutes ago, jackaub said:

That is exactly how I see it Sir!

This is a real time test for Jack.

Make a statement  of intent,knuckle down,commit, do the work and show the long suffering supporters that you want success

Or leave for a percieved easier life where not too much is expected and he can continue the lifestyle to which he has grown accustomed

The door is yet to be slammed, but Jack has got to commit. 

Non negotiable at all

i hope he stays, but if he doesn’t it will be Colin Sylvia 2.0

37 minutes ago, Crystal Dees said:

Liam Jones.

That said, I agree with your comments and trust the club with this call.

He's saved his career, but I think Liam Jones needs to play a full season out before assessing.

5 minutes ago, SFebey said:

Goodwin isn't dangling any carrot, he doesn't want him there, he's lost complete patience as per commentary. Even Watts himself has said personally he has been booted out and referring us to "they." Here no Carrot, no carrot here. Only rockets. The more to the story bit is Watts has done something more than what we see and here. It'll all come out eventually but he's goneski full stop.

I disagree, but we will soon know who is right

10 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

The door is yet to be slammed, but Jack has got to commit. 

Non negotiable at all

i hope he stays, but if he doesn’t it will be Colin Sylvia 2.0

Oh come on mate, seriously. Jack has said himself at a clinic that he's been booted out. Enough from me, lets hope for a good trade period, I really believe we could've gone all the way this year if not for injuries and running out of steam. We can beat Richmond and Adelaide thats for sure.

6 minutes ago, SFebey said:

Oh come on mate, seriously. Jack has said himself at a clinic that he's been booted out. Enough from me, lets hope for a good trade period, I really believe we could've gone all the way this year if not for injuries and running out of steam. We can beat Richmond and Adelaide thats for sure.

I am going on what Goodwin has said which was

”jack is welcome back if he wants”..The door isn’t slammed yet. 

The Door is Slammed shut on the “old” Jack Watts, but if he commits to the team going forward he can still be a Demon

it is totally up to Jack 100%

3 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

I am going on what Goodwin has said which was

”jack is welcome back if he wants”..The door isn’t slammed yet. 

The Door is Slammed shut on the “old” Jack Watts, but if he commits to the team going forward he can still be a Demon

it is totally up to Jack 100%

Might well be something in that, or

Jack might take his bat and ball too.

We'll know soo enough.

6 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

I am going on what Goodwin has said which was

”jack is welcome back if he wants”..The door isn’t slammed yet. 

The Door is Slammed shut on the “old” Jack Watts, but if he commits to the team going forward he can still be a Demon

it is totally up to Jack 100%

I am going to believe Watts than the nothing dribble Goodwin has dished up all year. Horse --> Mouth