Farewell Jack Watts

[Redleg 41,431]

1 hour ago, demonique said:

I thought Neeld wanted Toumpas over Wines ?! 

Wouldn't be surprised.

[Redleg 41,431]

29 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

 

To make it worse, I really dont think Simon McCantwin cares less. Theyve had an agenda all year and now they get to play the last act ( or is that last rites )

Do you think the Coach deserves the name you have given him?

 We won more games this year than any year in the last 10  and were 10 points off playing in the finals.

Edited October 1, 2017 by Redleg

[beelzebub 23,383]

3 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Do you think the Coach deserves the name you have given him?

 We won more games this year than any year in the last 10  and were 10 points off playing in the finals.

riding coat-tails land baulking going into finals....failing to understand weather reports.....yeah !! imo..I'll own it. 

 

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

1 hour ago, Grand New Flag said:

He has been shown the door.

Fair enough

Can't say I really care - but there would be more to it then just an all of a sudden showing of the door.

LIke I've said above, I just want 22 blokes who are committed on field every week. I don't care if that includes JW or not.

Some of you guys and gals clearly do.... 

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

2 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

riding coat-tails land baulking going into finals....failing to understand weather reports.....yeah !! imo..I'll own it. 

 

Trent Cotchin says hi - and is now a premiership player

[beelzebub 23,383]

Just now, Unleash Hell said:

Trent Cotchin says hi - and is now a premiership player

I'll wear whatever....but you'll have to explain that reference to me . Cheers

[Dockett 32 1,239]

Jack has had 157 games to demonstrate to the footy world to prove that he is a high quality , consistent dangerous forward and put the issue beyond doubt like say Cameron , Lynch, Pavlich etc. Trouble is he hasn't at Melbourne and on the basis of the number of games he's had seems unlikely to do this for us. An opportunity for a fresh start might be just the thing to spur him on and give us the chance to do some fine tuning. ie Opportunity for both parties.

Honestly don't see the need for any wrist slashing on this.

Surely the  coaching and recruiting staff reserve the right to make appropriate football decisions that they feel is in the best interest of all.

After all the buck stops with them and they ultimately stand or fall on the back of them

[Wilson7 2,688]

6 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

riding coat-tails land baulking going into finals....failing to understand weather reports.....yeah !! imo..I'll own it. 

 

what does this even mean

[beelzebub 23,383]

5 minutes ago, DavidNeitz9 said:

what does this even mean

sorry typo...riding the coat tails and baulking going into finals.

For mine though there are incremental improvements between 16 and 17 a lot of the work was already done by Roos.  Goodwin and co simply carried on, and modified since. This isn't his team..not yet.  Imho the person responsible for getting 18/22  blokes on the park ready for battle  and switched on is the coach Round 23 was beyond abject fail considering what was at stake/on offer.

We faced a VFL strength side and stank it up. If the coach doesnt accept responsibility...he ought go find another job

Edited October 1, 2017 by beelzebub

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

11 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

I'll wear whatever....but you'll have to explain that reference to me . Cheers

The wind reference you're calling Goody out for... (which I don't even think has anything to do with him but whatevs)

Tigers final v port - mistakes were made, laughs were had but now Cotch is a premiership captain

[mo64 5,881]

55 minutes ago, sue said:

If the FD/Goodwin believe Watts is, and will continue to be a bad influence on the other players, then I guess it makes sense to move him on regardless of what we get in return, or even if we pay for him to be at another club (god forbid). 

But what if that bad influence is not true or exaggerated? 

 

Sue, maybe Goodwin believes that Watts doesn't display elite behaviours on the training track. And I'll give you an example.

In Roos' 2nd year, I went to half a dozen preseason training sessions. Watts, Vince and Howe were all in the rehab group. Vince and Howe were restricted to running laps. Watts was on the sidelines.

Vince and Howe would run at a decent pace then slow to a walk. Every session, Vince would have his head down and focussed on his running, oblivious to requests from supporters over the fence. Howe would be doing the same despite supporters having a light-hearted dig at him being a snob for ignoring them. Watts was on the sidelines chatting to supporters and training staff, or lairising by trying to kick banana shots at goal. 

Now, on face value there is no harm in what Watts was doing as he was unable to train. But for me it was symbolic of his mindset to football. Vince always struck me as a lair, but my opinion of him changed. And his professionalism on the track is probably the reason why he's been re-signed for another year. The FD see him as a good influence on the young players.

Roos probably let Watts slide because he was a talented footballer like Watts, and the game came easy to him. Goodwin on the other hand was picked up in the preseason draft, and had to work hard to make it.

As supporters, we don't see everything that happens in the preseason. Goodwin, Jones and Jack Viney are all cut from the same jib, and missing the finals probably hurt them immensely. Maybe they've said enough is enough, and we won't tolerate players who don't display elite behaviours, regardless of talent and potential.

 

Edited October 1, 2017 by mo64

[jumbo returns 6,741]

1 minute ago, mo64 said:

Sue, maybe Goodwin believes that Watts doesn't display elite behaviours on the training track. And I'll give you an example.

In Roos' 2nd year, I went to half a dozen preseason training sessions. Watts, Vince and Howe were all in the rehab group. Vince and Howe were restricted to running laps. Watts was on the sidelines.

Vince and Howe would run at a decent pace then slow to a walk. Every session, Vince would have his head down and focussed on his running, oblivious to requests from supporters over the fence. Howe would be doing the same despite supporters having a light-hearted dig at him being a snob for ignoring them. Watts was on the sidelines chatting to supporters and training staff, or lairising by trying to kick banana shots at goal. 

Now, on face value there is no harm in what Watts was doing as he was unable to train. But for me it was symbolic of his mindset to football. Vince always struck me as a lair, but my opinion of him changed. And his professionalism on the track is probably the reason why he's been re-signed for another year. The FD see him as a good influence on the young players.

Roos probably let Watts slide because he was a talented footballer like Watts, and the game came easy to him. Goodwin on the other hand was picked up in the preseason draft, and had to work hard to make it.

As supporters, we don't see everything that happens in the preseason. Goodwin, Jones and Jack Viney are all cut from the same jib, and missing the finals probably hurt them immensely. Maybe they've said enough is enough, and we won't tolerate players who don't display elite behaviours, regardless or talent and potential.

 

He chatted all the time?

I've been to several training sessions and I've seen him go harder than Jones

Obviously not this year....

[mo64 5,881]

1 minute ago, jumbo returns said:

He chatted all the time?

I've been to several training sessions and I've seen him go harder than Jones

Obviously not this year....

No he wasn't chatting for 2 hours every session, but for whatever the length of the training session, a player should have no interaction with supporters. And before anybody asks, it wasn't Saty.

And it has nothing to do with what was happening during drills. It's what they're doing when they're not participating in drills. You train as you play, which means you stay focussed the whole time. 

[sue 9,143]

9 minutes ago, mo64 said:

Sue, maybe Goodwin believes that Watts doesn't display elite behaviours on the training track. And I'll give you an example.

While I won't disagree with any of that, I don't see how it counters any of the arguments I made to keep Watts unless you had concluded "therefore axe him because he is such a bad influence on the rest of the group and the coach is incapable of working with/around that".  Perhaps you mean that.  I find that not credible.

I'd add to what I said earlier, that Watts is likely to be out of contract around the time the team is GF ready (however much we hope it is in 2018) so why the rush (unless we get a really good trade deal)?  Also, I don't see that his playing in the VFL would have any significant negative effects for the club as some have claimed.

[—coach— 3,496]

9 minutes ago, sue said:

While I won't disagree with any of that, I don't see how it counters any of the arguments I made to keep Watts unless you had concluded "therefore axe him because he is such a bad influence on the rest of the group and the coach is incapable of working with/around that".  Perhaps you mean that.  I find that not credible.

I'd add to what I said earlier, that Watts is likely to be out of contract around the time the team is GF ready (however much we hope it is in 2018) so why the rush (unless we get a really good trade deal)?  Also, I don't see that his playing in the VFL would have any significant negative effects for the club as some have claimed.

Unless the people within our club believe they can get a draft pick for him that will secure a player who will help get us to that GF.

[mo64 5,881]

9 minutes ago, sue said:

While I won't disagree with any of that, I don't see how it counters any of the arguments I made to keep Watts unless you had concluded "therefore axe him because he is such a bad influence on the rest of the group and the coach is incapable of working with/around that".  Perhaps you mean that.  I find that not credible.

I'd add to what I said earlier, that Watts is likely to be out of contract around the time the team is GF ready (however much we hope it is in 2018) so why the rush (unless we get a really good trade deal)?  Also, I don't see that his playing in the VFL would have any significant negative effects for the club as some have claimed.

I mentioned this in an earlier post about 10 days ago. When asked about forward structures, and whether you change them to suit your players, or try to change the way players play, Goodwin said a bit of both, but you predominantly work with your assets. He specifically mentioned Petracca, Hogan and T. Mac, and I thought it was telling he left out Watts. He obviously believes that Watts isn't essential to our forward structure for a variety of reasons, so he is expendable. You also have to factor in his salary compared to some of our lesser lights like ANB and Hannan.

The Tigers forward line is proof that talent alone isn't the key to success.

[Wells 11 5,422]

2 hours ago, Grand New Flag said:

He has been shown the door.

good to see you around here again GNF...I search for your posts this time of year. 

[Akum 2,660]

7 hours ago, rpfc said:

If that is the case, maybe we should look at recruiting that tall fella with application issues who has elite skills and had a ripper 2016?

Seriously though, as @Clint Bizkit says later in this thread, you and Goodwin are talking like we will give him up for absolutely anything from the club of his choice.

That is not how you build and maintain a list. He has 5 years of good footy left in him if a club backs themselves to get him in the mindset he had the most of the last two seasons. I will not accept, as a supporter and member and Lander, any old pick for Jack Watts.

Obviously agree with everything you say in this post.

I just get the feeling Goodwin wants him gone - not for "absolutely anything", but probably wouldn't blink at a late second rounder for example, which is well below his value.

Or a 4-pick upgrade.

[nosoupforme 3,085]

On 9/29/2017 at 11:03 PM, Unleash Hell said:

Do you work.for.metro?

Again you make alot of sense however l think that maybe Goodwin has lost the plot.  l think Watts knows why. 

[nosoupforme 3,085]

48 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

He chatted all the time?

I've been to several training sessions and I've seen him go harder than Jones

Obviously not this year....

I see what you mean however he did have his mind on the training track and for some reason at times l felt he was lairising.

We need him and has plenty to give.

[nosoupforme 3,085]

8 hours ago, Unleash Hell said:

What a load of speculative bs.

Jack Watts is no better then Jenkins or Lynch who both got no where near it yesterday, which was due to  the pressure, and because they couldn't win their own ball.. In fact I'd rate those 2 easily ahead of JW.

If as per prior years teams copy the Tigers and go for all out pressure - JW will continue to get no where near it. No point being a great kick if you can't get the ball.

Players come to and leave clubs every year.... JW is no different. There is no solid evidence who out of the MFC and JW decided to explore other options. Goodwin has said JW is welcome at the MFC and it's rumoured JW said he was getting kicked out.... So you're all speculating in accordance with your own agendas

A lot of the arguments here are emotional rubbish... JW would be lucky to be top 15 player at the club.

I am not going to get upset by a non top 15 player moving on

Your opinion on JW is hard. Name all the Melbourne players l mean all that are better prospects than JW. 

SEE AGRRES WITH YOU.

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

31 minutes ago, nosoupforme said:

Your opinion on JW is hard. Name all the Melbourne players l mean all that are better prospects than JW. 

SEE AGRRES WITH YOU.

Ok just for fun

Players I rate ahead of JW (obviously this is my opinion and is subjective)

Hogan, Garlett, Pederson, VIney, Lewis, Oliver, T Mac, Gawn, Vince, Tyson, Tracc, Jetta, Hibbered, Jones, Hunt.

I believe these guys have offered more consistent team contributions then JW this year. 

Cheers

Edited October 1, 2017 by Unleash Hell

[Willmoy1947 4,140]

A different side next year, look for it. Watts goes, and the value we get will also decide who else stays and goes, i would think, so don't be surprised. I just hope the powers that be, who advise the changes to the rules, know what they are doing. I was not impressed this year because it looked as though they jumped based on a possible advantage to some where it didn't at all.

[chook fowler 19,546]

It seems Goodwin and McCartney are on the same page. That's enough for me.

[picket fence 17,502]

5 hours ago, Rusty Nails said:

Can't agree more Bobby.  Watts is at a level that he can potentially help turn a match...IF he applies himself.  Can't say that about too many players, especially on our list with maybe Tracc rising as the only other potential star going forward along with Clarry. The problem the club has is they no doubt asked him to step up this year and he appeared to fail them at the first hurdle in the off season, for whatever reason.

So the club and player have probably now lost faith in each other sadly.

But It always takes two to tango.

Now we have a senior player who failed to deliver and a coach that failed to get the best out of him.  If we let him go for just a pick I'm afraid we have definitely lost on this one.

Nailed it!! if we only get a second or third round pick for him then the club that picks him up if in the premiership window will think it has won Tatts! Agree massive, massive Fail by the Footy Dept if this happens.. We need to say its a player or he stays!