Farewell Jack Watts

[jumbo returns 6,738]

1 minute ago, SFebey said:

I don't think he's the only problem either. But there's more to the Watts story than just his skills. It's all about culture now, players not buying in to team rules will be gone, no matter how "nice" they are.

I think you need a combination of culture and skills

[Lucifers Hero 39,594]

16 minutes ago, SFebey said:

I don't think he's the only problem either. But there's more to the Watts story than just his skills. It's all about culture now, players not buying in to team rules will be gone, no matter how "nice" they are.

That is a fair comment SF.  And I agree there is no room for someone who does not buy into and practice team rules. 

This year has shown there are a number of players who lack discipline off the field, who have been caught out being 'naughty' and sanctioned by the club.  So Jack leaving isn't going to magically 'fix' our culture and whether Jack leaving even improves it is a moot point.  Either way, I sure as hell hope we can cover his skills on the field!! 

Edited September 30, 2017 by Lucifer's Hero

[SFebes 4,884]

8 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

That is a fair comment SF.  And I agree there is no room for someone who does not buy into and practice team rules. 

This year has shown there are a number of players who lack discipline off the field, who have been caught out being 'naughty' and sanctioned by the club.  So Jack going isn't going to magically 'fix' our culture and whether Jack going even improves it is a moot point.  Either way, I sure as hell hope we can cover his skills on the field!! 

The ones that were caught "off the field" were banned from playing VFL and are mostly young, one of them has already been delisted also, others we don't know of as yet. Jack has has had 9 years and should be a senior player, not even in our leadership group! That says it all. Goodbye to one armed tackles and jogging Jack.

Edited September 30, 2017 by SFebey

[spirit of norm smith 16,275]

Discipline. Kennedy. Kent. JKH. Spencer (x)

suspensions. Bugg.  Lewis.  Hogan.  Vince. Salem. 

Really what a whitewash. 

Training standards?  From what I have seen Watts trains at equal intensity to many others. Actually higher than others such as omcd tmcd weid hogan peds Tyson Vince 

[SFebes 4,884]

Just now, spirit of norm smith said:

Discipline. Kennedy. Kent. JKH. Spencer (x)

suspensions. Bugg.  Lewis.  Hogan.  Vince. Salem. 

Really what a whitewash. 

Training standards?  From what I have seen Watts trains at equal intensity to many others. Actually higher than others such as omcd tmcd weid hogan peds Tyson Vince 

buggs was bad, others were top end of scale of suspensions and Salems was a joke. At least those guys apply themselves onfield with intensity and have a crack.

kent, Kennedy and Spencer are probably all gone.

one thing I will say in Watts' defence is I don't think Jones nor Goodwin should be slagging him in the media.

[jumbo returns 6,738]

1 minute ago, SFebey said:

 

one thing I will say in Watts' defence is I don't think Jones nor Goodwin should be slagging him in the media.

100% agree....

Trade him, don't trade him - but keep it inhouse

Goodwin's 'not so subtle' discussion about JW, on Channel 7, was unnecessary

Shut up, Simon

 

[spirit of norm smith 16,275]

Agree. The coach has descended in my opinion.     The value of contracts is also worthless. 

[Lampers 563]

6 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

100% agree....

Trade him, don't trade him - but keep it inhouse

Goodwin's 'not so subtle' discussion about JW, on Channel 7, was unnecessary

Shut up, Simon

 

While I agree the public comments seem unnecessary, and I felt similar about Stringer and what Beveridge was saying, don't think for a second the other 17 clubs don't know what's what with Watts.

I know someone plugged into AFL circles and the gossip and stories that fly around is like an edition of footy New Idea. Everyone knows everyone else's business. They know the gaps in the innuendo that we see in the press, as do the journos who ask the questions.

So when I hear officials or coaches say these sorts of things publicly, I don't think they're so naive that they get caught out by the question. I think it's most likely an attempt to manage the fans and potential backlash - and to trigger the sort of fan conversation we are seeing here while inserting enough about the club's perspective into the public arena.

Footy clubs know their supporters are emotional and irrational, and have attachments to players irrespective of what that player is or isn't really doing. And it's part of the club's job to manage their supporters as supporters contribute to the revenue top line. But you know what contributes most to the revenue top line? Success.

If those comments truly harmed the trade value of the player, it wouldn't happen.

If the football department bowed to fan pressure instead of doing what they think will move the club closer to success, the club will go nowhere.

[Dee Zephyr 19,267]

Woo hoo, Daylight Saving, an hour closer to trade period, bring it on. 

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

8 hours ago, Akum said:

So there's no problem here? We've cut out the cancer and now we'll be much better off without Watts undermining everything and contributing nothing to the team?

I don't care that Watts is gone. I just hope our coaches aren't as blind to what we've lost - and more importantly, by what we'll need to replace - by dumping Watts, as a lot of posters are. What I've seen and heard so far from them doesn't fill me with confidence.

I have never said anything about the speculation of Watts

Don't comment me in your emotional bs. 

I've always said if JW doesn't want to buy in to what the leadership group has asked of him, he should go. I have never said I want JW gone.

I couldn't give a stuff if the 15th best player on our list decides to leave because it's still too hard on him being referred to as a no 1 pick or whatever his excuse is.

Do not care if he or the club look are looking to moving on. 

I want the list to get better, that's all I care about. And if that's without JW so be it

Edited September 30, 2017 by Unleash Hell

[DaveyDee 421]

18 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Agree. The coach has descended in my opinion.     The value of contracts is also worthless. 

Your opinion is not accurate there. Contracts are a two way street, unless the deal is reasonable he wont be leaving he is contracted. 

Simon just stated the obvious and what some of us have known for quite a long time - Jack has the support of the club to consider all options. 

[Lucifers Hero 39,594]

34 minutes ago, SFebey said:

buggs was bad, others were top end of scale of suspensions and Salems was a joke. At least those guys apply themselves onfield with intensity and have a crack.

kent, Kennedy and Spencer are probably all gone.

one thing I will say in Watts' defence is I don't think Jones nor Goodwin should be slagging him in the media.

That is what has upset me as much as Jack going. 

It is one thing to be bagged by the media and fans.  Totally different when the coach and captain keep putting your weaknesses out there without balancing it with your strengths.  Both played the 'bad cop' but I can't see who the 'good cop' was.  Can't help but think they stamped his card fairly early in the season. 

So its fairly difficult for someone to give their all with that blowtorch from the inside.  That is no excuse for Jack for not following team rules.  I just think that resilience (for which he is renowned) can quickly turn to apathy (which seems to have happened) when relationships break down.  So he's gone.  

But in my book Goodwin and Jones have done themselves no favours with their negative public stance. 

[jumbo returns 6,738]

18 minutes ago, Lampers said:

While I agree the public comments seem unnecessary, and I felt similar about Stringer and what Beveridge was saying, don't think for a second the other 17 clubs don't know what's what with Watts.

I know someone plugged into AFL circles and the gossip and stories that fly around is like an edition of footy New Idea. Everyone knows everyone else's business. They know the gaps in the innuendo that we see in the press, as do the journos who ask the questions.

So when I hear officials or coaches say these sorts of things publicly, I don't think they're so naive that they get caught out by the question. I think it's most likely an attempt to manage the fans and potential backlash - and to trigger the sort of fan conversation we are seeing here while inserting enough about the club's perspective into the public arena.

Footy clubs know their supporters are emotional and irrational, and have attachments to players irrespective of what that player is or isn't really doing. And it's part of the club's job to manage their supporters as supporters contribute to the revenue top line. But you know what contributes most to the revenue top line? Success.

If those comments truly harmed the trade value of the player, it wouldn't happen.

If the football department bowed to fan pressure instead of doing what they think will move the club closer to success, the club will go nowhere.

Love the avatar, btw

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

39 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

 

 

Now I understand how annoying I must sound when I post about O-Mac.. 

 

Edited September 30, 2017 by stevethemanjordan

[KLV 1,765]

This is from Greg Baum in The Age,...

"There was the crowd's presence, which was bigger as a roar is bigger than a woof. You have to believe it was a measurable force in this series and finale. The parenthesis here is an outsized fail for the AFL, who at every turn turn this day overlaid artificial, amplified, extraneous sound over the most spine-tingling naturally-occurring noise in the competition. It's a turn-off; turn it off."

AFL catering for mindless bogans, (not that all bogans are mindless or all mindless people are bogans)

Edited October 1, 2017 by KLV
Lack of concentration

[Guest]

34 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

100% agree....

Trade him, don't trade him - but keep it inhouse

Goodwin's 'not so subtle' discussion about JW, on Channel 7, was unnecessary

Shut up, Simon

 

I support the possibility of a Watts trade for various reasons but my eyebrows have been raised by some of the public discussion by Goody and Jones.

It certainly seems like there are strategic reasons why this is being done.  I don't know that I like it but there appears to be reasons. 

 

[MurDoc516 1,505]

I can't believe so many people have a problem with Jack Watts. I don't see him as a problem, but i don't see him as a 22 game a season player. However Jack loves the club and can be a match winner.

[spirit of norm smith 16,275]

21 minutes ago, DaveyDee said:

Your opinion is not accurate there. Contracts are a two way street, unless the deal is reasonable he wont be leaving he is contracted. 

Simon just stated the obvious and what some of us have known for quite a long time - Jack has the support of the club to consider all options. 

Support of the club to explore options at 17 other clubs.  That means Goodwin wants him to go. That means you are unwanted.  How does he stay?

He signed a 3-year contract 2017-19. Then after 1 year, ‘go explore your options elsewhere’. 

Thats not support.  That’s clearly means go elsewhere. 

[Dee tention 616]

I just hope the Dees play hardball in trade week with Jack.

He is contracted and it seems a few clubs are interested in him.

With Lever likely and Gaff possible. Jack will need to go to create salary cap space. This is the only downfall in getting the best trade back for him.

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

12 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Agree ^

I was trying to delete an earlier post which was both unfunny and overly sarcastic.

And this is all I managed to achieve.

I'll be on the trade table too soon if performances like this continue.

.......

For all the differing views on Watts (and I respect the competing views), this has been very poorly handled by the club. The discussion should not have been so openly had through the media. It lacks class.

 

[PaulRB 6,344]

I applaud Goodwin and Jones coming out in public and commenting on Jacks inadequate prep and efforts, and acknowledging the club's preparation to trade him off our list. For the single reason that they, and many in here no longer believe Jacks intention and approach to his football is beneficial to the club. 

Several attempts have been made to jolt (Neeld) or love (Roos) Jack into lifting his game, none have been especially successful for long. 

Of the three scenarios from here with Jack the first has become the least palitable to the club: 

1: Jack stays and continues his inadequate approach to his prep and the contested elements of the game. 

2: Jack leaves and we get a pick and move on, demonstrating a new high set of expectations to the team.

3: Jack stays and as a result of the public flaying and prospect of being booted from the MFC, makes some decisions about his footy that dramatically improve his game and contribution to the team. 

[Redleg 40,833]

1 hour ago, SFebey said:

 

one thing I will say in Watts' defence is I don't think Jones nor Goodwin should be slagging him in the media.

What did Goodwin say that was slagging?

I thought he said we had given him the option of looking around and that if he was unable to get a better deal he could stay with us.

That is not slagging a player.

Have I missed something else he said?

 

[Redleg 40,833]

I still think that we are trying to link Watts going, with getting a player in. I don't think that necessarily means that we will get a player from the club he ends up at, but rather a 3 club deal. Then again it is only a hunch.

[Dee Zephyr 19,267]

 

Discipline issues blah blah, his pre-season was well documented, they shoved a rocket up his backside and it worked. 

A lot of lines thrown around here about "partying hard", and I'm sure he's not the only one if true. 

We don't know what the club is planning for trade period but I find it a tad amusing that some want Jack gone because of his discipline yet on other threads, some want Stringer, no need to go into further detail.

 Impey has been mentioned and I read he fled the scene of an accident pre-season.

Motlop, known to hit the buffets in the off season. 

If team practice is the reason for trade, like stated a few posts above, start with those buffoons that went on a mid-season bender or a quiet can session when they were needed.

The club is happy to keep him, though his standards are poor? 

[rpfc 28,262]

9 hours ago, Akum said:

 

Watts is now no longer one of our players. I'm more concerned about us getting better. It concerns me, for example, that some of our core players that we rely upon most haven't improved their disposal for 2 or 3 years. If they don't improve again over this preseason, there's a risk we could get even worse. 

Pro-Watts or anti-Watts is no longer the point - it stopped being the point about 2 weeks ago. The point from now on is: how are we going to get better (post-Watts)? 

If that is the case, maybe we should look at recruiting that tall fella with application issues who has elite skills and had a ripper 2016?

Seriously though, as @Clint Bizkit says later in this thread, you and Goodwin are talking like we will give him up for absolutely anything from the club of his choice.

That is not how you build and maintain a list. He has 5 years of good footy left in him if a club backs themselves to get him in the mindset he had the most of the last two seasons. I will not accept, as a supporter and member and Lander, any old pick for Jack Watts.