50 minutes ago, Demons11 said:

Because of Watts???? Mate please.  He will play a role but if they are relying on him to get them to top 4, they are in a world of trouble 

Exactly - he will be recruited specifically for that.

Check out who else they are seeking to recruit. Rockliff and Motlop are very different players to Watts.

They've also got a super hard midfield.

And fire in the belly following a very disappointing exit in this year's finals series.

Watts alone won't make them top 4. Plainly. But they're not offering him a 3 year deal to play SANFL.

Ironically Watts might nearly be one step closer to playing finals at the G.

 

16 hours ago, jumbo returns said:

These young men have hardly had a life

I observed a young T Cloke growing up and watched him as his spirit, creativity and sense of fun disappear, as his footy consumed him 24/7

This could be JW's version of teenage angst

I agree jumbo, but we are here for winning cups.

The suburban leagues can offer fun to them.

Its the ones who "just wanna have fun", can stop putin their hands out, and go play for fun.

The fun boys are anchors on those players who strive to have success in their lives.

11 hours ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

Nup, sorry but huge problems with these statements - total BS.  

Jack was there and stuck with the MFC through some of our darkest times.  Unlike the Weed who has had the luxury of developing in the twos, it's well documented that Jack was thrown in the deep end.  Jack probably could have picked his club in 2010-2012 after his first contract ran out and bolted for the doors to a club that won more than 2 games a season.  We need to repay that faith.

 His efforts this year in the ruck against Geelong and Richmond show he'll push himself to the point of exaughstion as good as most on the team.  Delivered in spades on Queens Birthday and really helped lead us out of the wilderness that day, which I actually think was a bit of a turing point in the direction of our season at the time.  He played as hard and we'll as all on the team against the Bulldogs, after which his season kind of fell apart a bit, but he wasn't the only one in that camp.  And all his career Jack has played with the pressure of being that No.1 pick saviour under which we have seen others like Tom Boyd fold.  I think it takes pretty decent mental toughness to play under the pressure and keep picking yourself up after the at times constant criticism that Watts has, so to call him a leaner is way off the mark.

If Jack is around longer, for any success we have, he will have earnt every bit of the party that ensues.

Really, so what has he been doing to show his efforts in the past few seasons, as the club starts getting its act together.

He chooses what & when he wants to act, & when he doesn't feel like it. 

He doesn't do all he can to maintain peak fitness, doesn't work hard to build muscle bulk in the Gym.

He just strolls about until he sees his prey, like a mantis.

10 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Exactly - he will be recruited specifically for that.

Check out who else they are seeking to recruit. Rockliff and Motlop are very different players to Watts.

They've also got a super hard midfield.

And fire in the belly following a very disappointing exit in this year's finals series.

Watts alone won't make them top 4. Plainly. But they're not offering him a 3 year deal to play SANFL.

Ironically Watts might nearly be one step closer to playing finals at the G.

 

Adelaide Oval will suit Jack. Lots of space  and quick ball movement will help so that he can use his pin point kicking to advantage. 

Not sure about living in Adelaide. Fishbowl place and not great for the social or business side of things. 

1 minute ago, DV8 said:

I agree jumbo, but we are here for winning cups.

The suburban leagues can offer fun to them.

Its the ones who "just wanna have fun", can stop putin their hands out, and go play for fun.

The fun boys are anchors on those players who strive to have success in their lives.

And DV8, cups are not won by one robotic schema

It takes all kinds of players to win cups

Some players aspire to single mindedness, but others need nurturing and understanding

Doesn't mean they're not all sharing the same vision

JW himself duly noted ' We're on the cusp of playing finals and I want to be a part of that...'

But, as Ron commented in his previous post, it won't be with the team he loves and the players he loves

6 minutes ago, hemingway said:

Adelaide Oval will suit Jack. Lots of space  and quick ball movement will help so that he can use his pin point kicking to advantage. 

Not sure about living in Adelaide. Fishbowl place and not great for the social or business side of things. 

It's quite nice in the hills, Crafers etc...though his boardies would go well at ....ironically Brighton Beach !!

12 hours ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

I'll accept that everyone will apply themselves on the track like Oliver, Jones and Viney when they can all kick like Jack Watts.  From what I understand (and I think his playing body shape would back this up), Jason Dunstall was never a very good trainer at Hawthorn, but I don't think he ever would have been put up for trade mid contact (or ever) and the first bloke you would pick at full forward any day of the week.  Not that Jack has the hundreds of goals to his name that Piggy did, but it's not like Jack's played in side as dominant for his whole career either or has exactly the same attributes.

Basically horses for courses and I really do feel like Jack is being made into a scape goat.  In my veiw, the whole episode has been poorly managed by the club, particularly post season, with Jones, Goodwin and Co comming out and publicly criticizing him.  I do feel like the club is making a huge mistake putting up a player who has put faith in the club over a long period up as a bargaining chip mid contract - hardly the sort of thing that will encourage mutual commitment to the team by talented players in the future.

 

12 hours ago, Ned said:

Is there a chance this whole episode is a surreptitious rocket for Jack? He's unlikely to secure a trade just because of the way the chips have fallen so will wind up staying at Melbourne. Perhaps will shake off some of his apathy and if not then really on the block next year? He frustrates me but he's also been part of a club that went to hell and back during his time. I've always hoped Melbourne's success would come with Jack Watts part of it so both sides were validated. Just a dream I guess.

I would like to think that the club is very strategic about trading and drafting. So, if you really wanted to trade out Jack Watts, why would you come out publicly and criticize him? Wouldn't that diminish his trade value? Conversely, if you wanted Jack to receive a rocket because everything else tried to date has been unsuccessful, isn't this what you'd do?

I remain interested in the outcome to see whether the club has played the strategy well or badly. 

9 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

And DV8, cups are not won by one robotic schema

It takes all kinds of players to win cups

Some players aspire to single mindedness, but others need nurturing and understanding

Doesn't mean they're not all sharing the same vision

JW himself duly noted ' We're on the cusp of playing finals and I want to be a part of that...'

But, as Ron commented in his previous post, it won't be with the team he loves and the players he loves

It takes hard working players who play for one another & the team.  Not one sided player types who do as they feel, when they like.

2 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

 

I remain interested in the outcome to see whether the club has played the strategy well or badly. 

shouldnt be too much longer

11 minutes ago, DV8 said:

Really, so what has he been doing to show his efforts in the past few seasons, as the club starts getting its act together.

He chooses what & when he wants to act, & when he doesn't feel like it. 

He doesn't do all he can to maintain peak fitness, doesn't work hard to build muscle bulk in the Gym.

He just strolls about until he sees his prey, like a mantis.

Where'd he come in the 2016 B&F?  How was he going this year until the injury?

The rest is just absolute rubbish cobbled together from a few select pieces of select info, most of which comes from other theorys on this very forum that are dubious at best.  

7 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

 

I would like to think that the club is very strategic about trading and drafting. So, if you really wanted to trade out Jack Watts, why would you come out publicly and criticize him? Wouldn't that diminish his trade value? Conversely, if you wanted Jack to receive a rocket because everything else tried to date has been unsuccessful, isn't this what you'd do?

I remain interested in the outcome to see whether the club has played the strategy well or badly. 

Interesting theory, but too much damage done to relationships. Irreparable I would have thought. 

3 minutes ago, JTR said:

Where'd he come in the 2016 B&F?  How was he going this year until the injury?

The rest is just absolute rubbish cobbled together from a few select pieces of select info, most of which comes from other theorys on this very forum that are dubious at best.  

He's been awful most of his 9 year career, up until 2016 when he played a very good season. In which he was awarded a new contract in July 2016, and he continued good form last season following the signing of the contract.

This 2017 season, immediately after the secured contract, he turns up out of condition & not so committed to the team & the club.

He gets a mild injury and takes ages to get himself fit Via poor effort.

He doesn't offer the intensity in defending, for physical stakes of tackling, etc, to the level expected.

 

He has worn out his welcome. & has been told.

Can we please rename this thread to The Jack Watts Groundhog Day Thread... there's probably just 5 or 6 pages of original content.

1 hour ago, beelzebub said:

how many ever miss its intended target ?

I can't answer that. But I can tell you we don't score 8 goals a game from his kicks.

2 minutes ago, hardtack said:

Can we please rename this thread to The Jack Watts Groundhog Day Thread... there's probably just 5 or 6 pages of original content.

that much ? 

1 minute ago, beelzebub said:

that much ? 

Yeah, I was thinking about that as I was pondering whether to edit or hit the post button... I thought I'd give the benefit of the doubt.

2 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

I can't answer that. But I can tell you we don't score 8 goals a game from his kicks.

Bit of a strawmans invocation as to the requirement of any of those kicks surely. A kick, any kick is required to hit its target...many variables after that and many out of Jacks control.  The only thing Watts can do with a kick is to do it to advantage. He'd have a very high strike rate there....if not the highest in the club.

3 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

I’m still laughing. Great work ET

man, i posted the wolf of wall street video a week ago! Ripped my material!

16 minutes ago, hardtack said:

Can we please rename this thread to The Jack Watts Groundhog Day Thread... there's probably just 5 or 6 pages of original content.

I’m only responding so you get a notification to make you check again. 

1 hour ago, sue said:

I hope (but doubt) this will be my final word on the subject.

I suggest that there is no single reason that Watts is being moved on.  He is not as bad a player, trainer, influence as some have painted him.  But even those who support him have acknowledged he has deficiencies,  is no star but still a valuable player.  Since there may also be issues relating to team structure getting Lever in, salary cap issues, etc.,  taking it all into account it is reasonable that the FD have made the decision whetehr or not they have handled it well.  (I don't think we have to assume some yet to be revealed bad behaviour to add to that list but who knows).  I

To those who say the FD knows more than we do, well duh, of course they do.  Doesn't mean we can't question their decisions and  their implementation in this forum or what's the point of the forum. 

I trust those in the extreme axe-Watts camp who have arrogantly put down those criticising the FD's actions on the grounds the FD know more than us will never question any future decisions of the FD including the next week's team selection and positional moves during a game.

 

I agree with this post sue, everyone is entitled to an opinion. After all how boring would it be if we all agreed on everything?

I think the reason some (like myself) have been so vehement in our opinions because I have seen some of the comments on here and other social media platforms which seem to be not just supporting Jack or criticising the FD but going all out in attacking Goodwin, McCartney, Mahoney and Jones amongst others. This really bothers me because other than this decision and the fact we underperformed in missing the finals I think this FD has run a tight ship the last few years and has runs on the board where they deserve the benefit of the doubt in this instance. Of course that doesn't mean their decisions can't be questioned or criticised but some of the calls have been completely unwarranted and could lead to potential destabilisation of the club.  

After the last decade of hell when we seem on the verge of some exciting times as supporters the last thing I or, I assume, any of our supporters want to see is for us to go backwards due to infighting or off field stability. We can argue the merits of the decision til the cows come home and ask for accountability for poor decisions but at the end of the day once the decision has been made we need to back the players and FD in to start getting results next year. 

41 minutes ago, DV8 said:

It takes hard working players who play for one another & the team.  Not one sided player types who do as they feel, when they like.

We are miles apart in our thoughts and philosophies about success and JW

I think we just agree to disagree

Looking forward to sharing posts with you on all the Dees' games in 2018

53 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

And DV8, cups are not won by one robotic schema

It takes all kinds of players to win cups

Some players aspire to single mindedness, but others need nurturing and understanding

Doesn't mean they're not all sharing the same vision

JW himself duly noted ' We're on the cusp of playing finals and I want to be a part of that...'

But, as Ron commented in his previous post, it won't be with the team he loves and the players he loves

You can have all types, I agree - but they all need to meet the same standards and expected behaviours. Players can't get a free ride because "that's the type of personality I am"

10 minutes ago, McQueen said:

I’m only responding so you get a notification to make you check again. 

No need, I will check regardless... and I will hate myself for it.

13 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

You can have all types, I agree - but they all need to meet the same standards and expected behaviours. Players can't get a free ride because "that's the type of personality I am"

'Free rides' are hearsay and innuendo

Players need to be managed in different ways

Ask the Tiges

Anyhoo, good, Dr, looking forward to chatting about the Dees with you in 2018

How tedious is this getting? The camp I'm in now is the "I'm well over discussing this, have said all I have to say a dozen times, and just wish whatever was going to happen would hurry up and happen so we can move past it" camp.