14 minutes ago, Goodvibes said:

You asked me to present some evidence suggesting Goodwin was heading in the right direction.

And I'm sorry bub, but I'm not sure you're the poster on Demonland that can question the sense of another. Did you re-read that post?

I admire your energy, because you obviously understand what you're engaging.

I have to be careful how I phrase things these days.

39 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

Too late

He'll look great in hoops

Even a spud like Hawkins may kick 100 goals with Dangerfield, Selwood and WATTS hitting him on the chest, lace out, every time

Yeah, the guy thats nearly kicked 500 goals...

Isn't this what we drafted Watts for?

Mind you, if you had your way Neeld would still be coaching now.

 

 

Just now, At the break of Gawn said:

I'd rather wait to the end of 2018 before claiming Goody is heading us towards premiership glory.

He plays a high risk, high reward sort of game though. A good finals finish next year exemplified by a Demons outfit with a harder edge will see praise thrown in all directions at him and the shedding of Watts the right move. Another average year though and perhaps a resurgent Watts in a top 4 Cats team will see Mark Neeld MKII being thrown around all over this forum. 

That's fair but I'm only responding to the request of another poster and in so doing defending the record of a first year coach that is under siege by some because of his audacity to move on one player. If he'd made decisions in the past that had torn at the fabric and the culture of the club then I too would be cautious but instead he's taken significant steps forward. Maybe it's the coach in me that admires someone who has a vision and is prepared to back up the talk with decisions that he knows will be unpopular. He talks of culture and a team-first mentality. And the talk has evolved into action. Did you listen to the B and F? Did you hear how much work a rough around the edges Clayton Oliver did to have the season that he had? Did you hear our co-captain praise the work ethic and commitment of the coach. Our values aren't being re-aligned each year. This is year four of a calculated, clinical transformation of the club. The loss of Watts understandably stings some but it's clear to me why the coach has made the call. I'm pretty sure I voted in favour of keeping Jack in the poll attached to this thread. I like the guy. And I'm pretty sure Goodwin does too but it became clear that not only Goodwin but key players and staff at the club are prepared to put the  club first. They have a responsibility to their members to do everything they can to bring us a premiership and create a list and a club environment that will foster sustainable success. I can't believe some would believe Goodwin and others would trade Jack if they thought that would make us less likely to succeed.

1 minute ago, ProDee said:

I admire your energy, because you obviously understand what you're engaging.

I have to be careful how I phrase things these days.

My Foxtel broke.

14 minutes ago, Goodvibes said:

That's fair but I'm only responding to the request of another poster and in so doing defending the record of a first year coach that is under siege by some because of his audacity to move on one player. If he'd made decisions in the past that had torn at the fabric and the culture of the club then I too would be cautious but instead he's taken significant steps forward. Maybe it's the coach in me that admires someone who has a vision and is prepared to back up the talk with decisions that he knows will be unpopular. He talks of culture and a team-first mentality. And the talk has evolved into action. Did you listen to the B and F? Did you hear how much work a rough around the edges Clayton Oliver did to have the season that he had? Did you hear our co-captain praise the work ethic and commitment of the coach. Our values aren't being re-aligned each year. This is year four of a calculated, clinical transformation of the club. The loss of Watts understandably stings some but it's clear to me why the coach has made the call. I'm pretty sure I voted in favour of keeping Jack in the poll attached to this thread. I like the guy. And I'm pretty sure Goodwin does too but it became clear that not only Goodwin but key players and staff at the club are prepared to put the  club first. They have a responsibility to their members to do everything they can to bring us a premiership and create a list and a club environment that will foster sustainable success. I can't believe some would believe Goodwin and others would trade Jack if they thought that would make us less likely to succeed.

Out of interest GV is there a point where the return on JW isn’t worth it? Pick 30, 40, 50?

5 hours ago, pinkshark said:

 

Of course he was Top 6 after 12 games.  He helped carry us.  Because he is a very good footballer.  So 30 odd games in a row he is in our top half dozen.  Gets hurt and struggles to regain his form, yet still manages to be amongst our best on our most important game in recent years whilst having the pressure of having to come back thru the ressies.  

Its unbelievable.  We miss out on the 8 by 0.5% and the thanks we give this servant is 'do you mind leaving now Jack?'

Coaching staff and decision makers have [censored] this up.  Polls 21st in the b/f.  All interested parties rub their hands at this.  He gets cheaper and cheaper.  

S     C     A     P     E     G     O     A    T  .

And why do those who keep on quoting his B&F finish not point out that the very Football Department that decided he needs to go are the same ones that vote in the B&F??  This same FD that ignored Cam Pederson regardless of his impressive performances until they were forced to select him because of injuries to others.  This whole JW saga is disgusting and disappointing.  The MFC has found yet another way to shoot itself in the foot.  The President should be very certain that he's providing useful strategic advice that action being taken benefit the club.  The fact that other clubs are lining up for someone who has demonstrated skill, loyalty, fortitude and good humour should be sending a message.  Jack's behaviour should be rewarded not transferred. 

So if Jack nominates Geelong.

What would a deal look like? 

WE HAVE TO REMEMBER HE IS CONTRACTED AND WE DONT HAVE TO BE FAIR HERE!!! lol ?

Straight swap Blicavs or Parfitt?

Sounds like Geelong will receive an early 2nd round pick for Motlop.

How about Watts & 27 for Picks 21 & 22?

 

Thank you mods, a modicum of decorum is well and truly needed in this thread.

 

 

1 minute ago, Dee tention said:

So if Jack nominates Geelong.

What would a deal look like? 

WE HAVE TO REMEMBER HE IS CONTRACTED AND WE DONT HAVE TO BE FAIR HERE!!! lol ?

Straight swap Blicavs or Parfitt?

Sounds like Geelong will receive an early 2nd round pick for Motlop.

How about Watts & 27 for Picks 21 & 22?

 

Sounds fair to me.

1 minute ago, Jimcor2 said:

And why do those who keep on quoting his B&F finish not point out that the very Football Department that decided he needs to go are the same ones that vote in the B&F??  This same FD that ignored Cam Pederson regardless of his impressive performances until they were forced to select him because of injuries to others.  This whole JW saga is disgusting and disappointing.  The MFC has found yet another way to shoot itself in the foot.  The President should be very certain that he's providing useful strategic advice that action being taken benefit the club.  The fact that other clubs are lining up for someone who has demonstrated skill, loyalty, fortitude and good humour should be sending a message.  Jack's behaviour should be rewarded not transferred. 

i wouldn't say they are lining up, and at this stage we don't know what they are prepared to pay in return

everyone likes a bargain.

Just now, fndee said:

Out of interest GV is there a point where the return on JW isn’t worth it? Pick 30, 40, 50?

It's hard to see how he could remain on our list now. It will be interesting to see what we get. Like anyone, I don't want to see him go for peanuts. My only concern through this whole process has been the potential impact the statements of Jones, Goodwin and Mahoney may have on his trade value. I have no issue with them making a statement about what we expect at our club and clearly outlining why Jack has been allowed to "explore his options" but it will be interesting if these statements do in fact lead to us not getting a pick under 30. I think he has to go given what has transpired. I too would love a scenario where he stays and responds to the kick up the backside with a career best year but too much has been said. Trengove, Oliver and Jones all sounded like they thought he was gone in their speeches.

10 minutes ago, Dee tention said:

So if Jack nominates Geelong.

What would a deal look like? 

WE HAVE TO REMEMBER HE IS CONTRACTED AND WE DONT HAVE TO BE FAIR HERE!!! lol ?

Straight swap Blicavs or Parfitt?

Sounds like Geelong will receive an early 2nd round pick for Motlop.

How about Watts & 27 for Picks 21 & 22?

 

It's hard to see what Geelong can offer while they are still rasslin' with the whole "Bring Gazza Home" drama.
I wonder how many pages that has generated on their forums

7 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

i wouldn't say they are lining up, and at this stage we don't know what they are prepared to pay in return

everyone likes a bargain.

The fact that Jack has been in the media spotlight for so long and his perceived flaws so exposed for so long, that the indicated clubs have chosen to explore the possibilities surely says something about the man and the player.  Hinkley and Scott (and maybe Bucks & Horse) are neither inexperienced or dumb.  What are we?  Maybe JW is rightly sick of unappreciative and unsupportive coaches at MFC.  I hope not.

Watts is not a ‘scapegoat’, BnF points weren’t deducted from him to make it easier for the club to convince supporters of his trade. There is no conspiracy. He has not been asked to seek a trade just because of his on field performances, there’s obviously more going on behind the scenes that we’re not completely privy to. All this concern and second guessing of Goodwin as a coach and person is ridiculous. 

Jack could remain on the Dees list. This whole situation would be a giant kick in the bum...

If he didnt respond he would be playing VFL. I dont think Jack would want that.

Play hardball Dees. Paul Conners needs to pull his head in telling the Dees and Dogs they are doing backflips. Because even though Jack has been told to look at his options. The Dees and Dogs hold the Magic Key.

2 hours ago, Bobby McKenzie said:

Because Goodwin and company have personal grudges against Watts overridng their clear thinking on the matter. I just hope Goodwin is not plain dumb and can see his folly. Lost a lot of faith in him and in Jones who ratted on Jack according to reports. Used to love Jonesy.

What are you talking about? I've seen or heard no evidence of a personal grudge. What do you mean by "Jones ratted him out"? Do you think Goodwin has acted unilaterally on this?

It seems like your letting your emotions cloud your reason.

10 hours ago, old dee said:

Probably correct Ernest and that is why I think this will go down to the wire.

Recipient clubs know it is unlikely he would be at the MFC in 2018 so they will not offer much.

I guess right now clubs are thinking a third round pick which is not much.

As I said who blinks first?

Agreed, OD. There is a lot of smoke, mirrors, horse trading and bullsh!t to come before anything gets settled. The Lever deal is taking long enough, and that involves one want-away player who knows exactly where he wants to go, and a club that is keen to get him. So any deal for Jack will probably only be done about half an hour before the final deadline ...

8 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Watts is not a ‘scapegoat’, there is no conspiracy. He has not been asked to seek a trade just because of his on field performances, there’s obviously more going on behind the scenes that we’re not completely privy to. All this concern and second guessing of Goodwin as a coach and person is ridiculous. 

It's unfreakenbelievable that people can't comprehend this....

Just now, Dee tention said:

Jack could remain on the Dees list. This whole situation would be a giant kick in the bum..

I think this is wishful thinking, it’s gone too far to be just a ‘kick in the bum.’ Connors was on the radio today and sounded certain Watts is leaving. Watts has also toured at least the facilities of three other clubs, two of which are in interstate. Sorry Dee, but he’s gone. 

2 hours ago, Demons1858 said:

Jack also had a say when he did f-all on return from injury and we lost key games in our run towards the finals

Unfortunately most of our returning (from injury) players followed suit 1858, resulting in the entire club, players and coaching dept barracking for that feathered mob out west in their final match.

9 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Watts is not a ‘scapegoat’, BnF points weren’t deducted from him to make it easier for the club to convince supporters of his trade. There is no conspiracy.He has not been asked to seek a trade just because of his on field performances, there’s obviously more going on behind the scenes that we’re not completely privy to. All this concern and second guessing of Goodwin as a coach and person is ridiculous. 

Come on ET, Jack Watts in being victimised around here.  After all, he is the new messiah.

Please don't spoil the backstory for his bereaved flock.  And lets all hope he goes to the Pies.

Quick, someone get Jack a flute.

 

1 hour ago, At the break of Gawn said:

If we're still relying on Pederson next year, then we're in trouble. 

why? because he was playing like an AA last year?

2 hours ago, Bobby McKenzie said:

Because Goodwin and company have personal grudges against Watts overridng their clear thinking on the matter. I just hope Goodwin is not plain dumb and can see his folly. Lost a lot of faith in him and in Jones who ratted on Jack according to reports. Used to love Jonesy.

Ooh jack, ah, Bobby Mc.  Its back to defence for you I think, taking the kickins, & let others to set the play up, Ol' son.

Best let the brains trust play the midfield ol' matey.

For those holding out hope that this entire situation is just to give Jack a kick up the arse, please stop. I'm sure he was given a kick when he was dropped for JLT, Did he respond then? Not really. Did he respond when dropped after the GWS game? Not at all, was just brought in due to high profile/past credits. How many times over Jack's 9 year tenure have the FD probably tried to push him by giving him a kick up the arse? My guess is many, many times. He will never change folks 

1 hour ago, beelzebub said:

who ? me  ..or you?

You raised the idea about what the real question was about. i agree.

it's not Watts..that's the hint. The question is about the Club, the FD, its direction.. etc 

Noway can Watts accommodate all of that...so therefore what is the QUESTION ?

You're bright enough...figure it out.

 

The QUESTION is why would Goodwin and the FD sack a fantastic player like Watts if it meant their chance of attaining success was lessened as a result? Why would they sack a player who the playing group loved and risk destroying the culture and lessen their chance of attaining success?

Of course the answer is obvious, Occam's Razor and all that.