Over the weekend, I've accepted that we're going to lose another beloved player in Watts. My attention is on what are we getting in return for him? It better be good cause if we're getting pick 30 something, I don't see how the hell this is going to be a positive trade for us.

To the guys that want Watts gone, are you serious that you would rather pick 35 than Watts in your squad? To me, that's stupid.

1 hour ago, frankie_d said:

This is what makes D'land special 

Next thing you know, we'll be discussing the subjunctive.

Were you abbrieviating shall be discussing or will be discussing?

Edited October 9, 20178 yr by sue

2 hours ago, ChewyOnMyBoot said:

And that surprises you? One point I forgot to state was that a notable characteristic of 'criticisers' is that they are easily insulted i.e. they can give it out but can't take it.

I should make it clear, I don't have any problem with there being critics/criticism of Watts. When it's constructive and reasoned (I have some criticisms of him myself). But when it crosses to spiteful, unproductive criticism it loses any purpose and really is only a reflection on the person giving it.

 

Constructive criticism = criticism I agree with

Spiteful, unproductive criticism = criticism I disagree with

SEN still getting their info from Demonland-losers.

 

Ahhh... the perennial issue.

In this case, "shall", as expressing pure futurity. (cf futility).

Fowler (again), emphasising how lucky we are here a D'Land manor to be manner born:

the idiomatic use, while it comes by nature to southern Englishmen ... is so complicated that those who are not to the manner born can hardly acquire it

 

And I think that's enough of that!

Edited October 9, 20178 yr by frankie_d
manner vs manor

18 hours ago, beelzebub said:

and sometimes someone just wants to axe someone who doesnt fit their 'world view"

If youve been around...youve seen this Im sure.

Egos only get bigger the higher up you get

Seen it a few times BZ.  Sometimes one person's ego, if left unchecked can expand into a giant weather balloon (or in some cases even worse... a Zeppelin!) can end up ruining the entire business's hard fought culture inside 12 months!

Edited October 9, 20178 yr by Rusty Nails

21 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

He could have just as easily said "No comment or "I'll leave that up to the powers that be" Wise surely?

Ahh , someone who sees. This is exactly it for mine RN. Some have taken every opportunity to snidely throw another dagger in. Quite frankly it's poor form.  He seems like a messenger boy. 

Message to Nate..Jack started playing 30 mins before yo did rnd 23 ( and thats just one game  )

Jones might have  something worthy in that barrow he pushes but it smells to tell the truth.

As you suggest Rusty I think it's been all over red rover for some whiles even if it took some getting used to for Watts and co. A lot of 'nicey nicey' verbage  has been thrown up to sweeten the cesspool but a cesspool it is none the less.

All in all i  just cant see the ledger coming out in the black on this whole debacle

and yet 2018 will come and we'll all move on.

Better get this right MFC or they'll speak of the Watt's curse in tandem with Norm's !!

6 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Ahh , someone who sees. This is exactly it for mine RN. Some have taken every opportunity to snidely throw another dagger in. Quite frankly it's poor form.  He seems like a messenger boy. 

........

It would be safe to assume that any player giving a club organised/sponsored interview has been told how to answer the inevitable Watts question. They are just messenger boys pushing the Clubs line although Jones does seem to want to go above and beyond. 

 

1 hour ago, deejammin' said:

IF Watts is so average then why are three finals teams trying to get him?

The answer is either he has value and they believe they can make him an asset to their team. An indictment on our ability to get the most out of talented players and a big negative against Goodwin +Macca.

OR

The teams think they are getting him so cheaply it’s worth the punt. Which shows how stupid our strategy in pushing him out and bagging him publicly has been if we intended to trade him as we are getting so much less than his value that other clubs think it is worth the chance on an average player. Especially when we resigned him and refused to trade as recently as LAST YEAR when he had value.

Stupid either way, regardless of Watts’ actual potential we have hurt our ability to get what he is worth, while also giving him up to better teams than us with less to trade for our betterment.

Not to mention Jack is so well liked by our players and members that this is a potential culture killer. One of the reasons we have inspired loyalty in guys like Hogan, Petracca, Gawn, T.Mac, Viney and hope to in Clayton Oliver etc is guys like Jones and Watts who have been so loyal in the dark times and bleed red and blue. Pushing one of these guys out, when they don’t want to go, for less than their value, while hurting their reputation publicly, to a better team will seriously bite us the next time we ask a player to take less pay for the good of the club. Loyalty is a two way street and this will bite us. 

Badly handled, colossally stupid, culture killer. Strike one Goodwin. Give up too much for Lever/not have Lever perform, strike two. Miss finals 2018, strike three. We could be a basket case in our FD in one year and look back on this idiocy as the catalyst. So dumb, so infuriating.

Alternate view is that tolerating Jack's failure to consistently adhere to elite training and preparation standards would be a culture killer. Such tolerance  would signal to our young players with equal or greater natural talent that cause they're talented like Jack they can also take shortcuts in their training and preparation.

Watts for Zac Jones! Get it done!

16 minutes ago, demoniac said:

Alternate view is that tolerating Jack's failure to consistently adhere to elite training and preparation standards would be a culture killer. Such tolerance  would signal to our young players with equal or greater natural talent that cause they're talented like Jack they can also take shortcuts in their training and preparation.

Good teams back in their system and ability to enforce standards. They don’t trade good players to teams above them for well under their value to prove a point. Sydney, Geelong and Port won’t be worried about Jack infecting their younger players, neither should we.

I remember a time when a player had such behavioural issues he had to live with the coach and had turned up to pre-season overweight two consecutive seasons in an allegedly soft culture. He won the norm smith, Brownlow and premiership this year.

If players need discipline you back your system in to improve then. You don’t give them to better teams for nothing to prove a point to your younger players. I’d say the message our young players are getting from this is: it doesn’t matter how loyal you are, if the coach decides he doesn’t rate you he will trade you regardless of your wishes and contract status, and if you want to stay he the captain and football director will trash you publicly, so why be loyal? 

Edited October 9, 20178 yr by deejammin'

Thanks for 9 years Jack (Charlie) Watts

pity you could only tackle with one arm, you were one of the most highly skilled sportsmen on the planet ? 

but it came to easy to you and you didn’t care enough. 

You love the MFC, no doubt. But not enough to commit to 6 months of hard painful work

Sad you are not a one club player. 

Your choice is made. 

I would have thought seeing Colin Sylvia go to Fremantle and fail dismally would have been enough to get you in the right frame of mind

but alas....

2 minutes ago, deejammin' said:

Good teams back in their system and ability to enforce standards. They don’t trade good players to teams above them for well under their value. Sydney, Geelong and Port won’t be worried about Jack infecting their younger players, neither should we.

I remember a time when a player had such behavioural issues he had to live with the coach and had turned up to pre-season overweight to consecutive seasons in an allegedly soft culture. He won the norm smith, Brownlow and premiership this year.

If players need discipline you back your system in to improve then. You don’t give them to better teams for nothing to prove a point to your younger players. I’d say the message our young players are getting from this is: it doesn’t matter how loyal you are, if the coach decides he doesn’t rate you he will trade you regardless of contract status, so why be loyal? 

Comparisons to Martin are laughable. Seriously. How many chances do players get? We've seen it before, most recently with Colin Sylvia. Some on here are acting like this issue with Watts is a new phenomenon and the club are kicking him to the kerb after one strike. Last pre-season and this trade period are when this issue has arisen publicly but behind closed doors these discussions would've been had long before this. 

4 hours ago, Is Dom Is Good said:

Hannan? He has shown more in one season in the tackling/pressure effort than Watts did in his entire time with us.

Plus with another pre-season will only get better. I'm fairly optimistic about what Mitch Hannan could do next season.

I didn't see that and neither did the stats, but happy to disagree.

Im hearing that Jay Weatherill has given the go ahead on adding Watts to the Power.

Edited October 9, 20178 yr by Deeprived Childhood

8 hours ago, jnrmac said:

Watts' finishes in the B&F:

2016 5th

2015 18th

2014 4th

2013 11th

2012 16th

2011 9th

2010 25th

Watts finished 10th in 2014

7 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Comparisons to Martin are laughable. Seriously. How many chances do players get? We've seen it before, most recently with Colin Sylvia. Some on here are acting like this issue with Watts is a new phenomenon and the club are kicking him to the kerb after one strike. Last pre-season and this trade period are when this issue has arisen publicly but behind closed doors these discussions would've been had long before this. 

I’m not saying his situation is identical to Dustin, or that Watts is anything like the player Dustin is. But there were several times Richmond was encouraged to trade him to a stronger club as his issues were far more serious than Jack’s and they stuck by him and knew he’d be good for them. 

Ill guarantee two things, one many key players at MFC are seriously [censored] off about this and two if things go badly at our club this year on field we will lose several players next year as a result of the shocking handling of this by our club.

Also I would back Jack in to burn us by playing great footy wherever he goes.  

2 minutes ago, deejammin' said:

Ill guarantee two things, one many key players at MFC are seriously [censored] off about this and two if things go badly at our club this year on field we will lose several players next year as a result of the shocking handling of this by our club.

If they are then they need a good hard look at themselves.

It was "player power" that led to 186.

The inmates do not run the asylum. If they don't like that then they can ask for a trade to the Gold Coast.

Go Goody.

Go Demons.

 

3 minutes ago, deejammin' said:

Also I would back Jack in to burn us by playing great footy wherever he goes.  

Good on Jack if he does. The shame would be that it took such an almighty kick in the pants for him to do it.

We won't get Zak Jones for him, so I will stop thinking about it...

 

 

But if we did get Zak Jones for him that would be good.

 

But not thinking about it at all...

27 minutes ago, deejammin' said:

I’m not saying his situation is identical to Dustin, or that Watts is anything like the player Dustin is. But there were several times Richmond was encouraged to trade him to a stronger club as his issues were far more serious than Jack’s and they stuck by him and knew he’d be good for them. 

Ill guarantee two things, one many key players at MFC are seriously [censored] off about this and two if things go badly at our club this year on field we will lose several players next year as a result of the shocking handling of this by our club.

Also I would back Jack in to burn us by playing great footy wherever he goes.  

Martin and Watts are the same age. One is now a Brownlow & Norm Smith medalist, the other is still being chided over his lack of professionalism. The penny dropped for Martin years ago, how many chances do you think Watts should get before the club has had enough?

You "guarantee" many key players are [censored] off - do you "know" this or is this just conjecture?

3 hours ago, frankie_d said:

This is what makes D'land special 

Next thing you know, we'll be discussing the subjunctive.

The subjunctive is so last year. The gerundive is where it is at ...

1 hour ago, frankie_d said:

Ahhh... the perennial issue.

In this case, "shall", as expressing pure futurity. (cf futility).

Fowler (again), emphasising how lucky we are here a D'Land manor to be manner born:

the idiomatic use, while it comes by nature to southern Englishmen ... is so complicated that those who are not to the manner born can hardly acquire it

 

And I think that's enough of that!

Perhaps that should be, but shall it?

4 minutes ago, Red and Bluebeard said:

The subjunctive is so last year. The gerundive is where it is at ...

Delenda est Norf

Edited October 9, 20178 yr by frankie_d

3 minutes ago, frankie_d said:

Delenda est Norf

corvi non carborundum