2 hours ago, jnrmac said:

No i don't think so because it was Billings that took the free. I think it was paid for front on contact to Billings. Appalling decision in any case.

I thought it was against Jetta for holding in the contest. He wasn't holding anyway, he just had a hand touching his opponent momentarily to see where he was...

It appeared razor gave a free at one stage from 50 metres away ...despite there being numerous players between him on the 50 metre arc and the infringement near the goal...I don't see how he could have possibly seen anything, we didn't and we had a clear line of sight.

Razor can eat it 

4 hours ago, Mickey said:

Tiger fans claim they are hard done by. Have a -70 odd differential, so -2 isn't too bad

I watch a lot of Richmond because my family is split 50/50 and as dumb as Richmond supporters are, they are correct in that thet really do cop it, and have for years. Umpires always seem to murder them. It's funny but also tragic.

On the flip side, the Bulldogs always seem to get the rub of the white/yellow/green, dating back to the 80s.

We've always been the middle ground. Few games this year where we got a good run with the umps.

Is the solution to pay the umpires a better wage?  Make them full-time professionals = more training, more expectation, peer review.  The AFL have the money.  Any other ideas for improving the standards?

2 possibilities. Either Razor is bizarrely biased against us, or he treats all clubs as badly (thinks not), in which case he's a criminally shizenhausen umpire. In either case he should never umpire another game.

Simples.

The is absolutely a directive from AFL house to hurt us in any way possible

Dont believe me? Why were we given a 6 day break in round 23 then, our ninth of the season, more than any other team.  They had all season to get that fixture right and they screwed us.

Definitely questionable. When watching the game I try to be unbiased and see it for how it is. Generally I think I do it pretty well. However, time and time again it just seems far too strange. Particularly after watching other matches between other sides. I understand there is the odd slip or poor call, I can accept that, but not the constant one-sided bias. Either AFL corruption or organised crime is playing a part in the AFL fixture (not just MFC games).

The umpiring was horrendous and one sided today. We were legitamitely smashing St Kilda in the first half yet they had the rub of the green on free kicks and had a few questionable ones get them goals. Then the 3rd quarter was totally baffling and some of the most biased, one sided umpiring I've ever seen.

The Max Gawn decisions weren't just a weird rule of the week thing, they were a weird rule of the week, only being enforced in one game, against one player thing. Not only do the AFL have to stop this tinkering with the rules mid-season that leaves players, fans and clearly umpires confused, but they need to explain better to the players BEFORE the game what the new focus is and how it will be enforced. Clearly Gawn and Longer had no idea what frees were getting paid for, but bizarrely Longer could shove Max in the front or face for no penalty, whereas if Max put an arm up to protect himself when Longer jumped on him it was a free. It was totally pathetic and the only reason St Kilda got back in the game. 5 easy centre clearances is what it gifted the Saints and that is massive in modern footy.

As for the general umpiring the reason missed decisions hurt us so badly is our contested style. We rely on winning the ball honestly in the contest, or winning it back from tackling (HTB), incorrect disposal or turnover. When umpires constantly miss HTB, drops, throws or players holding the man at stoppage it allows teams to get on the outside and pull apart our structure. Numerous times today we nailed holding or dropping the ball in a tackle only to see it illegally get out to St Kildas runners and let them go forward. We were held, jumped on high and in the back all day for no free We also had numerous times where we won the contest but had wrong free kicks gave the ball back to St Kilda. This hurts us far more than teams who slingshot from the back and rely on intercept and turnover for obvious reasons. It's the main reason why bad adjudication kills us for playing a good game style and must be fixed!

Some of my favourite terrible decisions were:

All the Max ones, just complete trash

The Jetta one, so so wrong.

 In the third Petracca nailed a tackle on Geary who dropped the ball yet was awarded holding the man as we streamed into goal. Then a minute later Bradshaw was clearly held in their forward line without the ball, no free, nails a tackle and the player tries to kick and fails to in the tackle, no free, St Kilda goal.

Umpires need to be full time, highly paid and only focussed on umpiring all week, with strong performance review and thethreat of being dropped if they fail to meet performance criteria. We have players, coaches, administrators who all live by the sword with their performances but the people who hold the integrity of the sport's rules within their grasp are part time moonlighters with no culpability. It's baffling!

52 minutes ago, praha said:

I watch a lot of Richmond because my family is split 50/50 and as dumb as Richmond supporters are, they are correct in that thet really do cop it, and have for years. Umpires always seem to murder them. It's funny but also tragic.

On the flip side, the Bulldogs always seem to get the rub of the white/yellow/green, dating back to the 80s.

We've always been the middle ground. Few games this year where we got a good run with the umps.

The Geelong game this weekend should be a case study for anyone interested in this topic imo

The almost astonishing numbers of visitors' free kicks ignored by the umpires aided and abetted by the deafening silence of crowd noise when balls were dropped by the home team testifies to the bias whether it be conscious or unconscious of the umpiring team.

All we want at the end of the day is consistency after all.

We can wear a ridiculous call for deliberate out-of-bounds or holding the ball as we must but what we long for is the application of the same standards equally applied to both teams.

I would like to see some (nearly wrote "more" !!) accountability by the umpires in the sense of public match reviews post-weekend.

And part of that process should be to recognise when the umpires got it right which they often do. Part of valid examination involves praise where deserved imho.

The ideal would be an identification of consistent trends and open discussion on whether a problem has been identified.

Hopefully the will for this type of painful self-examination is in abundant supply at AFL headquarters 

?

Last year, when it looked like we were are real chance of making finals, facing Carlton in round 22, we lost the free kick count 5/20. Yeah... 400%. No team can overcome that. "No finals for you!"

I unhappily predict that Collingwood in round 23 will get as many free kicks as they need to beat us.

Why?

Because Melbourne don't generate strong television ratings.

"AFL" is a corporation selling an entertainment product.

A few years ago (Hinkley's first year, i think) Port Adelaide were red hot and every chance to grab the flag. When they beat Collingwood in their first final, Gil said "that cost us a million dollars". The next week Port were put out by Hawthorn on the back of some truly outrageous umpiring (anyone remember those last few minutes? i do).

I was a Juventus fan when Serie A exploded. It shocked me deeply. I denounced my team and fairly quickly lost interest in Football. It is well worth noting that the Serie A referees who were done for match fixing would never have gone as far as AFL umpires go week in week out.

Our game has become deeply corrupted by its too-close relationships with television and gambling corporations. It's not hard to see... if you care to look.

 

4 hours ago, Melbournepotter said:

I thought it was against Jetta for holding in the contest. He wasn't holding anyway, he just had a hand touching his opponent momentarily to see where he was...

It appeared razor gave a free at one stage from 50 metres away ...despite there being numerous players between him on the 50 metre arc and the infringement near the goal...I don't see how he could have possibly seen anything, we didn't and we had a clear line of sight.

50? Try more like 80 to 90. Head shaking stuff from him.

4 hours ago, ignition. said:

Definitely questionable. When watching the game I try to be unbiased and see it for how it is. Generally I think I do it pretty well. However, time and time again it just seems far too strange. Particularly after watching other matches between other sides. I understand there is the odd slip or poor call, I can accept that, but not the constant one-sided bias. Either AFL corruption or organised crime is playing a part in the AFL fixture (not just MFC games).

Either AFL corruption or organised crime is playing a part in the AFL fixture (not just MFC games). Yes. They have a name and it;s called Channel 7 (from Sydney mind you).

3 hours ago, deejammin' said:

 

 Not only do the AFL have to stop this tinkering with the rules mid-season that leaves players, fans and clearly umpires confused, but they need to explain better to the players BEFORE the game what the new focus is and how it will be enforced. 

They should just be taught to umpire the game to the rules and not interpretations of the rules.

3 hours ago, wretched.sylph said:

Last year, when it looked like we were are real chance of making finals, facing Carlton in round 22, we lost the free kick count 5/20. Yeah... 400%. No team can overcome that. "No finals for you!"

I unhappily predict that Collingwood in round 23 will get as many free kicks as they need to beat us.

Why?

Because Melbourne don't generate strong television ratings.

"AFL" is a corporation selling an entertainment product.

 

Here we go.  Channel 7 again.

6 hours ago, wretched.sylph said:

Last year, when it looked like we were are real chance of making finals, facing Carlton in round 22, we lost the free kick count 5/20. Yeah... 400%. No team can overcome that. "No finals for you!"

I unhappily predict that Collingwood in round 23 will get as many free kicks as they need to beat us.

Why?

Because Melbourne don't generate strong television ratings.

"AFL" is a corporation selling an entertainment product.

A few years ago (Hinkley's first year, i think) Port Adelaide were red hot and every chance to grab the flag. When they beat Collingwood in their first final, Gil said "that cost us a million dollars". The next week Port were put out by Hawthorn on the back of some truly outrageous umpiring (anyone remember those last few minutes? i do).

I was a Juventus fan when Serie A exploded. It shocked me deeply. I denounced my team and fairly quickly lost interest in Football. It is well worth noting that the Serie A referees who were done for match fixing would never have gone as far as AFL umpires go week in week out.

Our game has become deeply corrupted by its too-close relationships with television and gambling corporations. It's not hard to see... if you care to look.

 

You've nailed it WS.  AFL is no longer a sport but a business.  The goal of any business, its first consideration above all else, is to make money.  The AFL makes bucket loads which has attracted the attention of OC syndicates who obviously want a  slice of the cash cake and will do pretty much anything to get hold of it.  The end result is lots of close games, questionable umpiring and inconsistency in MRP decisions. Consider those issues with the huge AFL gambling push and maybe things begin to make sense.

Have a look at the Brownlow favourite.  Which side of the tracks does his support base come from? I'd love to see betting sheets showing exactly where and when the big bets came from for him.

I honestly believe they do try to orchestrate an outcome .So many crucial frees against us , and then even up the ledger when their ploy has not or has worked . It really does need looking into . 

Sometimes it's too blatant to ignore , and yesterday's umpiring efforts was a class A blatant one .

i didn't count them but how many frees against us directly lead to a goal ?

But , I am one eyed De supporter !

Well I didn't expect to see the quality of posts I do when I started this thread and definitely seems like many agree. To think there isn't corruption of some sort is naive IMO, it even happens in the police force. I've been saying all year, there's more at play here. How much is he record breaking channel 7 contract worth? It's blatant corruption and manipulation of games to make the game look good and competition even. Funny how this season is the closest all of a sudden, I can assure you it isn't equalisation working! For me the blatant cheating of MFC games by Nicholls really upsets me, to the point where I won't go to games he's umpiring anymore. Plucks imaginary frees against and soft frees for opposition. 50m penalties become 80m etc. wish there was an umpire by umpire breakdown of the season. I watch all footy, every weekend, they even up games deliberately but MFC cops it for a few years IMO. Even out MRP outcomes get the max amount of weeks for fickle incidents. As I said, I'm always fair and have always criticised my mates by blaming umpires but this year sticks out like dogs balls.

6 minutes ago, SFebey said:

Well I didn't expect to see the quality of posts I do when I started this thread and definitely seems like many agree. To think there isn't corruption of some sort is naive IMO, it even happens in the police force. I've been saying all year, there's more at play here. How much is he record breaking channel 7 contract worth? It's blatant corruption and manipulation of games to make the game look good and competition even. Funny how this season is the closest all of a sudden, I can assure you it isn't equalisation working! For me the blatant cheating of MFC games by Nicholls really upsets me, to the point where I won't go to games he's umpiring anymore. Plucks imaginary frees against and soft frees for opposition. 50m penalties become 80m etc. wish there was an umpire by umpire breakdown of the season. I watch all footy, every weekend, they even up games deliberately but MFC cops it for a few years IMO. Even out MRP outcomes get the max amount of weeks for fickle incidents. As I said, I'm always fair and have always criticised my mates by blaming umpires but this year sticks out like dogs balls.

My wife and I were having this conversation on Friday over dinner and, I must say that I am a fanatic football Dee supporter and I guess a bit naive , but my wife who isn't so heavily emotionally invested in AFL is convinced of an agenda running to orchestrate results . She says it's obvious to her because of the nebulous interpretation of the rules/guidelines that it would be the easiest thing to manipulate or engineer an outcome. She's not saying it's for their own personal gain but more of an equalisation of the comp. 

But I do believe it needs an investigation by an outside agency  To get to the bottom of it. 

9 hours ago, Petraccattack said:

The is absolutely a directive from AFL house to hurt us in any way possible

Dont believe me? Why were we given a 6 day break in round 23 then, our ninth of the season, more than any other team.  They had all season to get that fixture right and they screwed us.

"Never attribute to malice that which can also be explained by incompetence" -- Winston Churchill, Benjamin Disraeli, and Mark Twain (in committee)

5 hours ago, MT64 said:

They should just be taught to umpire the game to the rules and not interpretations of the rules.

Here is the problem in a nutshell.

Read the rules. They are so badly worded that "interpretations" are required to fill in the gaps.

Not just the media, even the umpires department (!) have bought into the idea that there are "interpretations" and even that the "interpretations" can change over time.

It doesn't seem to occur to them that "interpretations" of rules are a bad thing (leading to all the things being complained about in this thread) and highlight the slackness and carelessness of the AFL in this area.

(Example: they are quick to bring in "blurcam" on the goalposts when there's a bad goal ump call and someone cries out that "this could cost someone a premiership!!!" But turn a blind eye to the larger and more endemic problem that may have already cost several flags over the journey, most recent example: last year.)

How about .... blueskying here ... rewrite the rules so they are clear and unambiguous? I realise that's not 100% possible but hey AFL .... give it a try? Maybe improve on the permanent shambles that you currently have, and which is getting worse?

There are rules that "everyone knows" but are not actually in the rule book.

There are rules in the rule book that get ignored.

The "guidelines" on how rules will be "interpreted" that the AFL put out before each season has a useful lifetime that doesn't stretch much past the pre season comp.

Not to mention the "rule of the week", "rule of the quarter", or even "rule of umpire no. XYZ".

 

The AFL see all this and happily buy into it. Their lack of action shows that they don't have a problem with any of it.

For all their big noting, they are a joke.

 

If not for the MFC and countless hours of hope and dreams foolishly invested in them over many years, I would have given up on AFL altogether.

3 minutes ago, Mazer Rackham said:

Here is the problem in a nutshell.

Read the rules. They are so badly worded that "interpretations" are required to fill in the gaps.

Not just the media, even the umpires department (!) have bought into the idea that there are "interpretations" and even that the "interpretations" can change over time.

It doesn't seem to occur to them that "interpretations" of rules are a bad thing (leading to all the things being complained about in this thread) and highlight the slackness and carelessness of the AFL in this area.

(Example: they are quick to bring in "blurcam" on the goalposts when there's a bad goal ump call and someone cries out that "this could cost someone a premiership!!!" But turn a blind eye to the larger and more endemic problem that may have already cost several flags over the journey, most recent example: last year.)

How about .... blueskying here ... rewrite the rules so they are clear and unambiguous? I realise that's not 100% possible but hey AFL .... give it a try? Maybe improve on the permanent shambles that you currently have, and which is getting worse?

There are rules that "everyone knows" but are not actually in the rule book.

There are rules in the rule book that get ignored.

The "guidelines" on how rules will be "interpreted" that the AFL put out before each season has a useful lifetime that doesn't stretch much past the pre season comp.

Not to mention the "rule of the week", "rule of the quarter", or even "rule of umpire no. XYZ".

 

The AFL see all this and happily buy into it. Their lack of action shows that they don't have a problem with any of it.

For all their big noting, they are a joke.

 

If not for the MFC and countless hours of hope and dreams foolishly invested in them over many years, I would have given up on AFL altogether.

Your dead right. Let's start with existing rules  -  like "in the back", "tripping" and "dropping (non-disposal) of the ball.

15 hours ago, brendan said:

I think they favor a team who is behind at different stages of a game to swing momentum and today it worked a treat, frees ended up 20/20 so as to not make it obvious, goody said in his presser they will be asking the afl what gawn did wrong today 

And hopefully it will be explained publicly so the rest of us can understand how a player standing still and being jumped into can be accused of shepherding in the ruck.

As to the rest of the day's umpiring, I thought it was pretty good overall.

And slightly off-topic, but I was impressed seeing Oliver going to Gawn and apparently telling him to pull himself together after one of those bizarre free kicks resulted in a St Kilda goal. 

I'm not an expert on the laws of the game, and I'm often confused as to why free kicks are paid due to my lack of understanding.

But yesterday, I felt in the 3rd quarter that frees were being paid to the Saints left, right and centre just to swing momentum their way. Even for someone like me, the umpiring motive was blatantly obvious.

"Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence."